LuminethMage

Telling from the video and generally what they have been doing with many of the newly released armies - that’s exactly what they want to achieve. That in a few years, some of us elf fans will at least partly associate awesome oxen mountain spirits and horned helmets with Aelves. And be angry if someone releases new elves without those aspects. When they first introduced White Lions wearing pelts and wielding great axes, you could have made the same argument you are stating against them too - there was nothing traditional or inherent elven about either of those. Same with Phoenixes and Dragons. But now so many people love those aspects about the HE. They want to do achieve the same with AoS. Form genuinely new associations.

I can totally I understand why some people don’t like the look of them. To be honest at first I also thought that the Stoneguard helmets are a bit too much (but really AoSy). I actually have come to really like them, especially if you look at them not on those black/white backgrounds. I don’t really understand the “these are not elves” POV. Many of the things we love and associate with our Warhammer Elves like Dragons, Phoenixes and White Lions also had no real prior or inherent connection to them. Warhammer made them so. And in AoS they decided they want to add an ox theme to that. But the basic story behind it, being close to the land, raising spirits by magical song and so forth, is very similar to Warhammer Fantasy. They clearly wanted to blend traditional HE elements and new, genuine AoS elements, to ground the Lumineth in the new setting and start a new tradition of what it means to be an elf in Warhammer. That’s also the theme of the Aelves for Wealth video they showed. Many aspects even of the Stoneguard is a clear reference to the old HE. The robes, the general form of the helmets, the look of the armour, the poise. I really hope that we see some winged helmets and a nice flying spirit monster so that more of people will enjoy the faction, but I think what they have done so far is pretty awesome.

No one knows for sure. You can see that even people who have been following AOS the whole time are split on this. On the one hand even in this preview video and the article they mention things like “just have tipped our toes” etc., so it could be a huge range. On the other hand everything detailed they have ever said so far and all the rumour engine pictures have been only about the mountain faction, with the likely exception of the veiled mage. They also swing sharply from talking a lot about Tyrion to not mentioning him at all like in video yesterday. Personally, I think Tyrion must be in this faction, and we will see a Phoenix-dragon kind of spirit. But I have become less sure of it being with this release. GW already told us that there is a Sun Spirit, even gave it a rune and have plastered the Lumineth with Phoenix symbols. Both of the other spirits which have had the same kind of attention (runes etc.) have been shown already. It would be really strange if some kind of Phoenix or winged creature wouldn’t come. Also from a marketing perspective - I can’t imagine they won’t have something big on their hand for last. It would be really strange if they tell us next week, here is a generic mage and a generic hero and that’s it. But how much there will be is anyone’s guess, from maybe another 2, 3 models to all 4 elemental cultures being fully fledged out, anything is possible.

Happy Birthday! I’ll also use them as they are. @Zanzou It’s totally fine that you don’t like how the look, and yeah those helmets are not practical at all. But I don’t think the are that outrageous compared to many of the other factions. Metal top hats? The things Idoneth and OBR have on their heads (there is a guy who wears a sarcophagus around)? Fyreslayers helmets are at least as big compared to their body height, some of the Chaos Warrior helmets etc. Its just part of AOS. Practicality and functionality of armour and weapons just play no role in AoS. As mentioned I do hope though we get at least one more of their subcultures with this release, which has a more traditional winged helmet theme (like Eltharion) because that would make many people happy (and I’d like to see that too).

Really sad to see that I high elf fan doesn’t like them (although it looks like you are not alone there). I like what they did. The Hammers are reminiscent of the White Lions, the helmet faces, if not for the horns could even be those of great cats. The have taken a lot of the cultural aspects of the former HE into the Lumineth, the whole concept of singing to wake the mountain spirit to help them fight, is very similar to the Dragons of Celador before. And elves being very close to or almost in symbiosis with their realm is also reminiscent of Ulthuan and Athel Loren. As of course is the whole “great at magic, have a huge fuckup but still think they are the best and come-in as cavalry to sort everything out” thing. I agree that the helmets are over the top, but HE also were one of the factions with the most ridiculous helmets in WH fantasy. In AOS half the factions have goofy helmets, so they had to do something to stay on top : ). I understand that the Pointy Aelves video hinted at even more traditional elves, I always just understood that as them not being half elf/half something, but I also didn’t think Lumineth would get huge bull horned helmets and cow spirits as their defining feature. So that can feel like a let-down. I still think that the wind or zenith faction will feature more traditional HE monsters like phoenixes (they have so much phoenix symbols on them it would be weird if we don’t get something like that) and some signed helmets. But we might not see them with this release. Hopefully they’ll feature units you’ll like in the end. I’ve also waited 5 years for the new HE and can imagine how you feel now. : (

That’s just the smoke from the brazier we have seen before. She could also be from the wind subculture (smoke, veils), or just a generic mage. The runes as far as I can tell are neither really wind nor water or could hint at either, hard to say.

No problem. Just to clarify, we don’t know that they get models though. Especially this release. Might be nothing. But as long as they don’t say it’s the full range, we can stay excited and hope we’ll get everything : ) This is what they said about the four subcultures in their first lowdown: “Following the teachings of Teclis, the Lumineth also learned to communicate with, and even channel, the geomantic spirits of Hysh – specifically those of the mountains, rivers, wind and zenith. This affected every aspect of their existence, from the knowledge they accumulated to the way they fought and the magic they employed. . . . . This led the Lumineth to develop four distinct sub-cultures within their wider civilisation, each with its own orders of mages and warriors. By dedicating themselves, mind and soul, to the pursuit of furtherance, the Lumineth could better avoid the lure of Slaanesh.”

Not saying you are wrong, but their whole armour is also done in the mountain style. Could just be the painting style of course, but the armour for both the stonemage and the hammer unit as well as the mountain spirit look bulky, have these stylized triangles on them, and high neck guards. They look different to the armour of the basic troops, and how the armour of Teclis and Eltharion look like. There are supposed to be 4: Mountain, River, Wind and Zenith. So all for are theoretically covered. Phoenix iconography is all over the Lumineth and there is a Sun Spirit. Something like a phoenix should come, but no one really knows. So far everything we have seen has been from either the mountain faction or standard troops, except for Eltharion, who had a lot of Phoenix symbols on him, and one more female mage who could be wind, river, zenith or just generic.

I’m really wondering how wide the range will be. On the community side the article is introduced like this: But I really can’t imagine that they have that many models for each of the 4 elements (spirit, mage/hero, elite).

Could be yes. I can’t see the goo-like stuff on it, but you can’t see all of them and it would fit generally and with the size.

If thats' the lady the brazier picture is also still missing. Edit: now that I had more time looking at it, she has the brazier in her hand. As we thought at that time. We still haven’t seen the bonsai on the cliff though afaik.

So besides the full mountain faction, which is called Alarith, we got some more information. - There is more to explore (so looks like this is not the full range, we even might get all 4 sub-factions, although that just seems too much. They said though that the "range surpassed their own expectations" ) - The Lumineth had super powerful magic and basically destroyed Hysh in an atomic magic civil war with epic fallout, but still think they are the best (typical Aelf stuff). It looks like this faction will be really big on magic, if that's not just fluff. - But they kind of feel a tidbit bad about that and try to make amends with the spirits of Hysh. - Everything is still pretty much messed up, but hey we are fighting Chaos together with the Realm now. - The named cow spirit is Alarith himself the "Mount Everest of Hysh". - The Hammer unit is called Stoneguard (I think) - They really made elves with cow helmets and hammers 😱. And I kinda like it, though the helmets are a bit much. I hope they had that toned down somewhat for the other sub-cultures. The mountain factions is definitely not about stealth lol.

Hopefully. If they go by the banners, then we'd at least also get the dragon-phoenix thing. Oh, started, fingers crossed.

Taken from the prediction threat in the main forum. It sadly was the Lion. We get to see the mountain bull spirit we saw on the banner. I hope that’s not all.

Yeah definitely possible. Even would look a bit like his old helmet. If not, likely another Lumineth. But Tyrion would make a lot of sense. Edit: damn haha haha, could be Lion El’Johnson (shakes fist)

Yeah, that’s why I have a tiny hope that they release the digital version of the BT before that. It would give us something to read and to play around with lists, and they could sell at least that. Not today of course, but maybe we get the announcement today or next week.

Only a few more hours now. Let’s see if and what we get today. If we are really lucky they might even provide the Battletome in digital form, or a digital novel in the next one or two weeks.

I can't say much about the mechanics, but I like the flavor you put in there. It could happen that you have to change the Teclis and Tyrion parts. Let's see if there is anything in the Lumineth fluff, but it might be that the free aelves are not so super into T&T. This is one of the things we hopefully get more information about in the the Lumineth BT.

That would be really risky though. A lot of people wouldn't appreciate that at all. Slaanesh being freed will definitely happen at some point, and they might also give him some aelf followers/units, but I doubt that Malerion will be part of that. On the other hand, there weren't any of Malerion's forces or DoK's guarding Slaanesh when Archaon tried to free him, so who knows, there might be a big plot twist incoming : ). I think it's much more likely though, that the story will be on the lines of Archaon's recent actions bringing the Lumineth in, and then finally when Slaanesh get's free Malerion's faction will also be introduced.

I'd be happy of course if they'll give us a full reveal during those two events. Then at least we have something to write about here for a few weeks, which keeps us busy. It would be interesting to know how much GW generally relies on impulsive purchases. If it's only a small percentage, then sure they can just go ahead an reveal everything right now, and then show us rules, lore and mechanics in a few lowdowns afterwards every two weeks (and a few more close together before pre-order/order as they always do). That still wouldn't amount to too many. I personally still want to buy all the models they have revealed at first although that has been at least 20 months ago (might be a month or two off there "cough"). But if GW relies on a larger percentage on hype and people just buying whatever they've seen last, then GW might change things a bit. It's not like they couldn't show a prepared reveal video also later, and prepare something else for those shows. We'll see in a few days.

Just a few things. I extra mentioned that all lore reasons are meaningless. GW can change the lore to whatever they think will sell them more products. This of course also applies to my own arguments about lore reasons. Just because they were together WH Fantasy, doesn't mean they have to be in AoS eventually. People should have a look at the video and make up their own minds. I totally agree. It's really interesting. But I didn't reference it selectively. "Meh" in the video is exactly defined as what I wrote it is (and I was surprised that they didn't score better). I also mentioned that the low Reminders stat could be because there are not that many options to build a good list with the DoK, and that even if the stats mean that the DoK are not popular (which is just an assumption) - GW could decide to give the army a wider model range to solve this. The only thing I disagree with you is that there is no evidence that Tyrion is part of the Lumineth. He is constantly mentioned in the Lumineth lowdowns. They've called him the Lord of Lumination. Certain models (Dawnriders, Eltharion) bear a stronger connection to Tyrion (are more Tyrionic) than to Teclis. If you read everything they've published about the Lumineth it would be strange if he wasn't part of them. He doesn't have to come with the initial release of course.

It's still better not to provide misinformation. The statement didn't say May 31st, but April 14th. Anyway, now as our expectations have been lowered, what do you think they will show or want them to show on Saturday? I hope we get at least one or two new units. I would love to see something not from the mountain culture. Especially from zenith or wind. Still some people don't like the aesthetic of the mountain faction that much, and I think at least those two might be more similar to the old high elf style (winged helms like Eltharion). Edit: From someone who is a bit ahead of the curve (living in Korea), three weeks could be enough to significantly improve the situation. It depends of course how bad it is in the UK, and if people really follow the rules etc., but here things got significantly better in around that amount of time. It won't be back to normal of course, but might be enough to restart economical activities, and people have a bit more leeway to move around etc. 🤞

Thank you, but the title could be misleading. At least in the full email it says these measurements are initially taken until April 14th not May 31st.

Yeah my worries exactly. For some reason I was sure that they get a full reveal this Saturday. Kind of was building up to this, but that article looked more like something someone had to do in a hurry because they promised us one this Monday. Might really have something to do with Corvid19. Probably best to keep expectations low (I'm not really good at that myself though, lol). I also didn't like the content very much to be honest. I know we need some tragedy and lost glory, but this sounds like they are living in rubble and everything is utterly destroyed. Would be sad if we don't see some pictures of aelf cities etc. I might be too negative now, but this whole thing was a real downer. Let's see if there is anything on Saturday.

@Kramer Sorry, that god long, just wanted to explain the background why I'm haunting the DoK channel. Just to be clear, I don't think they have to merge them or anything like that. I only asked DantePQ because he wrote there is nearly a 0% chance, so I wondered why he is so sure. I don't play Dark Elves normally (as you can imagine), but have been buying their army books since they exist (I also have the current DoK BT), and generally like Morathi as a character. In the end I don't think that lore would be a valid reason either way. It all comes down to if GW thinks they can sell more miniatures by keeping them separated or by merging them. When I wrote my reply yesterday I had just watched the latest Warhammer Weekly from Vince (03182020) where he had an interesting discussion about models and their popularity according to a survey he did among his viewers. Around 900 people took part in that survey, and in terms of DoK it showed that they had one of the highest "meh" ratings (meaning most people don't have a strong reaction to the models (neither hate nor especially like them)). they had a relatively low meta rate, the lowest among armies with a high win rate (everyone else with a win rate around 60% had double their numbers at least), and the lowest among the 15 factions covered. they also have a low rate of lists at AOS Reminders. He looked at those stats to try to get a broader view on how many people make lists for armies, which is probably a broader range than only the tournament crowd. And again DoK was the faction with the least entries. Whereas some factions like the Nighthaunt, which had a relatively high "like the models" rating, but a low win rate and low meta rate, have a much higher Reminders rating. So, if you go by those stats, not that many people really like the models, DoK aren't picked that often in tournaments and not a lot of people make lists for them. Which all put together doesn't look like they are really popular, and could be an incentive for GW to put them together with another faction. Of course the stats are imperfect. 900 is quite good for a survey, but it's just among his viewers, people don't always reply truthfully in surveys and things like a low numbers of lists could just mean there aren't many interesting ways to build an army (which in itself is a problem though), etc. Lots of other reasons. Still it's comparatively good data. So there might be an incentive for them to put them together. Or they could decide they have to widen the range of DoK models I just thought there are some additional reasons besides lore to be so sure, that's all. Because they can always change the lore to make it fit with whatever they want to do. And in terms of Morathi this could be easily done. Malerion is always mentioned as the ruler of Ulgu, and they also put her on a level below him terms of status (god vs demigod, although that doesn't mean anything in the game). She is also in a pretty precarious situation because her whole power is based on a lie. One which the other gods know of. So it would be quite easy to write a story where she has to submit to him to survive (and start planing to overthrow him again). Btw. the Warhammer Weekly survey and analysis is really interesting. Again, I'm not saying GW must or should merge them. I just think you can't flat out say it's not possible. Let's see, if DoK really get a new BT within this year, then the discussion will be solved soon. Anyway I'm looking forward to getting murdered by stabby aelves when I finally get my hands on the Lumineth.