LuminethMage

There are a still a lot of possibilities left. As they have included strains from classic Greek to East Asia into the Lumineth so far. Athrawes mentioned a Gonggong-like spirit. That would fit really well with what they have done so far. Certain Naga would look similar and could be an alternative. In Japan you have Kappa, or they could go back to a more Greek inspired Nymph-like being. From what we have seen so far, I don’t think they’ll go with a Water Elemental. Totally agree with the Eagle. If we don’t see some predator bird inspired spirit for the wind faction I’d be really surprised. Although if they draw on Asian traditions for the wind spirit too, we could be in for a surprise again.

Can‘t be done, you heard Dante, dragons are the sole property of Malerion, and Teclis wouldn’t even know what a dragon is (nor apparently could a dragon-like spirit exist in Hysh because Teclis doesn’t know of dragons, but those spirits were super lucky he was all into sphinxes and oxen back in the day). That’s a good idea, one of the Sentinels in the Gama release photo has a symbol of something like a Gonggong on his breast. But it’s so hard to see, could be something totally different. I really just hope we get one more element with this release. I really want to see what they have come up with for the rest of the elements.

This is what I think more people could do, try to stay positive if you like at least some of the models so far. We have only seen one out of the 4 elemental factions, and it might just have been the one which is the most separated from the old HE style. Either, if not both of wind and zenith should have some affiliation with flying units or monsters. GW has also written so often about the winged creatures in Hysh that it would be really strange if we don't see any flying units for the Lumineth in the end. During the interview last Saturday you could see that they pretty much have gone along with such story elements stated about Hysh in the Core Book, Malign Sorcery etc. Just because of some fluff in the end-times doesn't mean people don't all of sudden associate HE with dragons anymore, which were a key feature of them almost from the start until the end. And almost nothing of said End Times fluff was carried over to AoS. It's not like they threw Order Draconis and Order Serpentis together. Teclis also hadn't that much to do with cavalry, but still managed to imagine horse cavalry for the Lumineth (and it was Teclis who did that not Tyrion according to GW). You can't fault people for expecting to see some dragons with new HE. That said, I also think we won't see (m)any dragons with the Lumineth. Maybe with the exception of the Sun Spirit which could be this phoenix-dragon merged monster that we can see on the Danwrider flag. Probably this has more to do with GW having decided to give the Lumineth a more pan-asian cultural background which doesn't have much of a connection to winged dragons, than with End Times fluff (pure speculation of course). I think the flying creatures we'll see for he Lumineth will have feathered wings, not bat wings. I really hope though we get at least one more of the elemental factions with this release. If there won't be any flying monsters (except for Teclis Moon Spirit), GW can't really complain if some of the old HE fans would be disappointed.

Well done : ).

Yes, of course at the moment it's just fluff, but it sounds like a very elite army so far. It would be fun if we get some of the old spells re-imagined as magical buffs.

Will be interesting to see what mechanics they have. I personally hope they get some on their own like the OBR RDP, just based on magic. They already mentioned that the High Warden are in control of channeling magic into the spear units (and they look a little bit like fight/mages with the lamp and wand options). Looks a bit similar for the Sentinels. The Stoneguard does have a mountain stance. And interacts with the Stonemage and the Mountain Spirit if they are near. They do look like a tough units, as they are always talking about "unmovable" it could be some kind of charge-resistance, or just save-bonuses (maybe dependent on a trigger (haven't moved etc.). I don't see the Lumineth being that tough though outside of the mountain faction. In this respect I hope we see one more of the elemental temples. Something speed focused with some flyers (so wend or zenith). I really like the army so far, and would be ok if it basically stays like this, but an High Elf-inspired army without flying units and just one cavalry unit would feel a bit strange. I hope they get some kind of speed related bonuses, it just fits with elf armies and is also a big part of the Hysh fluff. But hopefully not a general always strikes first mechanic for all units. That would be really obnoxious for everyone else.

That has a bit of different quality to it than normally. I like the art. Also a bit sad, the second article normally means we are in pre-order times. Edit: And yeah, if the Lumineth get a Terrain feature it’s very likely it’s some kind of Tower.

@herohammer You are not alone. I really like what they have done so far. I really like the models. I differ with you a bit on the basic troops, because I think these were necessary to do something more AoSy with the rest of the line. It's a good mixture. I also look forward to what comes next. Hopefully there is still something in there for people who don't like the Mountain faction. But. personally I'm really happy.

I've played HE since they exist, and I don't find it misleading. I understood the Pointy Aelves video in the way that the new Hysh Elves would be elves and not some tree or snake hybrid, or something totally different like blind, bald, soul-hunting underwater folk. Just elves. And that's what they have delivered so far. How can you look at the full range and say "lol bull horns for all"? None of the basic troops has bull horns. They look just like HE brought into AoS. Almost everything about them harkens back to the HE. They use the same rune system, same robes, same style of armour (breast plate with chain/scale mail below). They even gave them traditional horses. All the core troops, which would be a large part of the army could be easily used as High Elves if you want to do that. Even if you don't like the Teclis and Eltharion models, they are also reminiscent of their former models. No bull horns on either of them. Then they showed us 1 out of 4 sub-cultures which is associated with a mystical beast-spirit. Again something in the tradition of the former HE (Phoenix Guard, White Lions, Dragon Knights). They just decided it's cool to make it a mystical beast with horns this time. And again the Stoneguard, if you just cut off the horned part on top and give them a great sword or great axe, you could easily use them as Sword Masters or White Lions. The rest of the helm, armour and closing is really similar to the HE style. I can really understand that some people don't like the aesthetics of the Mountain faction. The helmets are over the top, and we haven't hadn't had many horns for High Elves (Wood Elves did though). But some of the criticism (these are not elves! Hashut!) seems just lazy and pretty unfair to what GW has done. We haven't even seen the full range yet. There is a difference between meeting your personal expectations and some objective marketing fault. For example, I would have found "angel elves" (hybrid elves with wings) strange after watching the Pointy Aelves vid. But many people expected that and would love them. And they might still come with the Lumineth (wind faction). Then it would't have been what I expected, but what many others did looking exactly at the same marketing content. And there was also a pronounced backlash against the Idoneth. Many people didn't like them at all. Same goes for the KO and many other factions. I really hope though the release will include at least one more subculture which includes a winged monster with similar themed units. I think that would make many of the people happy who are on the fence right now, and it was a central theme of the HE.

Well if you say cows, then yes. But if you listened to the explanation they gave, these are not just cows, but undying partly magical beasts which live on high mountain slopes. You can also look at the masks, the face almost looks feline. They could look quite elegant when we see them in the art. As a joke the cow thing is fine, but that’s not what they are really talking about.

That would be the only one possible, yup. I still think it looks different though (the good stuff, the thing on the bottom, and the curve of the mountain don't seem to align). But it's possible. And @Sleepers yeah, that would be the case. Although could potentially be air/zenith too. Let's see. Getting excited about Saturday again (damnit: ) ).

A fiery version of Malhandir would be great. So far the most plausible "mount" would be the Sun Spirit (I don't see why a faction with Twin Gods couldn't have more than two big pieces anyway), which seems to some kind of phoenix. Not really connected, but hinting at another maybe relatively large piece is this here: After looking at the Rumour Engine and the Montain Spirit really closely, I think we still haven't seen this one here. It's similar, but doesn't overlap 100% as far as I can tell. I could be the bonsai in the back, but I think that one misses the stuff you can see at top, the mountain part seems to be different. and it likely doesn't have the ledge thing on the bottom. Or am I wrong?

And just to add, they always had this aspect, just not as pronounced, and a bit changed. The Caledor Dragons could be seen as Earth/Fire spirits which the elves awoke with their singing. It's very similar in a way. And they always bonded very strongly with their land (be it Ulthuan or Athel Loren). It's a new twist on things, but it also builds up nicely on existing lore. In my view at least.

Yes, I heard it like that too the first time I re-listened closely to it, super excited at first. It would really fit with the "just scratched the surface" (which he mentions at the end), and also with some of the rumors saying this will be a big faction. It's kind of what we all thought at first. And combine it with how they wrote the article on Warhammer Community: "The Lumineth Realm-lords are already shaping up to be an incredible army, but so far we’ve only dipped our toe into the new range of models. Let’s shine a light on a bit more…" But then, I've now listened to the whole thing like 10 times. It's still confusing. He mentions the 4 temples at first, but then says something like they are all on top of mountains (which still just could make sense (Wind, spring of a river, zenith could all be on top of mountains), but then every detail he mentions is just about mountains. Now it could be they are just so spot on target and never slip up even slightly, but sadly they've never given us even a tiny bit of information about River, Wind or Zenith besides them existing. All the art is about mountains, etc. That's exactly why I'm so torn. They've raised expectations a lot. But never gave any concrete examples of anything else coming. It's also a reason why many of us think the Phoenix Temple will be part of this faction. So anything could happen. Let's see what we get next Saturday. If they show us even a hint of a unit from any other elemental temple, we could be in for something really big.

Yup, I get what you mean. And of course I selected the quotes in a way to make my point. I just think they wrote too often about Lumineth being made up of two halves which compliment each other to not raise expectations. Even with the Danwriders - in the name it's clearly that this is sun (Tyrion) associated. Same with their flag. Tyrion is also mentioned as the leader of cavalry in the Slaanesh BT. So even without selective reading I think they very much raised expectations that Tyrion is part of this release. Now, I agree with you, it looks more like he'll come later. Especially, if we don't see any hint about him in the next reveal on Saturday. I feel that would be the last chance to make a pivot to the other half of the Lumineth. First reveal finished Teclis' part, second one will be about Tyrion. @Sleepers I don't think it's Lumineth, but it very well could be. For me that looks more like 40k or Dark Elvish, but it's possible that it's part of the Lumineth. @Damosane Could be! Would certainly make for a great expansion! But it would be bad for the initial release with many people being disappointed if there are no flying monsters/units with the Lumineth. You can already see that everywhere. Flying monsters were a defining feature of the HE, and GW mentioned winged creatures a lot in conjunction with Hysh. They also haven't released many armies lately without flying units. I personally still doubt it, but it's certainly possible. It's kind of a risky strategy though. I'm sure they know if they advertise a faction as reminiscent of the Pointy Aelves that a lot of people expect flying monsters (if they want to appeal to the TW crowd then even more so). Another reason why I feel hesitant about it, is that there are still many more factions to explore in the Mortal Realms, and several who really could need updates before they visit the Lumineth again. We'll know soon. Right now so many things could happen with this faction.

I mostly agree with you. I went down from 100% confidence of Tyrion being in this army, to not being confident at all. Mainly because I also think it just would be too massive. One of the few reasons why I still think Tyrion could maaaaaby come is because they made it clear in many articles that he is as central to the Lumineth as Teclis, especially concerning their military (which is what we mostly see in the game). That's the only part where I disagree with you, Tyrion has not been shown to be passive. He doesn't have that big of a role in their general culture, but he was as essential for creating the Lumineth and has a leading role in their military. That would fit perfectly with their personalities. Of course Teclis has been much more the focus so far. But if Tyrion doesn't come with this army, GW can't complain if some people are unhappy, or went into wishful thinking. If that's the case I think they should have been more careful when and how they mentioned Tyrion. Here are some the examples of what I'm speaking about. This doesn't sound like a passive role for Tyrion: Lowdown 1, how they introduced the army:"After working with Malerion to entrap Slaanesh in the Hidden Gloaming, Tyrion and Teclis began to siphon the souls of their former kin who had been swallowed by the Dark Prince during the destruction of the Old World. Of all the spirits drawn forth from the slumbering Chaos God, the most stable and pure became known as the Lumineth. They settled within Hysh, the Realm of Light, a paradisal land of geometric perfection. There, the Lumineth grew both wise and powerful from the teachings of the twin gods." "With the peerless martial prowess of Tyrion and the enlightened teachings of Teclis driving their every action on the battlefield, the Lumineth Realm-lords are the art of war made manifest." Lowdown 2, about the Wardens: "Their armour is bedecked with sun and moon icons, symbolising the twin gods of Hysh, for their warriors are neither Tyrionic nor Teclian exclusively" About the all-important cultural runes: "In addition to representing an amalgam of the runes of the four Hyshian geomantic spirits, the more elaborate versions incorporate the twin aspects of sun and moon, both separate yet intrinsically linked, just as with the godly twins that embody them. Lowdown 3: About the Dawnriders: "These often include stylised sun and phoenix symbols – though formally centre-aligned between the Hyshian gods, a more militaristic, Tyrionic influence is clearly prevalent. This is further emphasised by the majestic phoenix design on the Dawnriders’ fluttering banner." Lowdown 4: About Eltharion: In the world-that-was, Eltharion of Yvresse was the perfect blend between supernal warrior and mage. As such, the spirit that endured stands in the divide between the martial Tyrionic and enlightened Teclian halves of Lumineth society. ... Of the two blades he wields, one is dedicated to each of the twin gods. His longer sword displays a fiery rune running the length of its blade, and he has a matching scabbard bearing the rune of the sun spirit. By contrast, his short sword and scabbard bear the mark of Teclis. I'm a Teclis fan, I really like the Lumineth as they are, they would be all I need to have fun. But I would feel GW mislead expectations if Tyrion doesn't show up. Although of course they could say in a later release like a chamber, but still ... .

I’m really in two minds about this. On the one hand, they even in the last reveal used idioms like “scratched the surface”, “just dipped toe in the water”. They also have been going on about Teclian and Tyrionic elements the sun spirit and all kind things in almost every lowdown (if you look at the Dawnrider and Exemplars articles specifically it’s almost impossible to think Tyrion isn’t part of this release). I also would find it strange if they don’t have something up the sleeve at the end of the reveal circle. Some people also mentioned that this would be a really big faction. On the other hand, every rumour engine, detailed story piece, art, and the terrain sculpts we have seen were all about the mountain faction. Even the ones where we spotted stuff they didn’t want us to see, like the hammer unit. And they have now for months slowly released units from this faction. So it could easily be that’s basically it. We only get another hero or two, a conversion we haven’t seen yet and maybe a war machine. I hope that we get one more element at least. Even if they incorporate the Phoenix Temple, which from their background fit perfectly with the Lumineth. The veiled lady with the brazier could even fit with them. They often depicted a brazier brazier together with a Phoenix and her closed eyes could be a reference to Tyrion (and we have Frostheart Phoenixes soceven the blue wouldn’t be too off). I just think after all the teases about Tyrion and Phoenixes, flying creatures in Hysh etc., it would be really strange if the Lumineth range would not include him and don’t even have a flying non-hero unit. But if they don’t even give a hint about something like that in the next preview, then I guess we won’t see it this time at least.

Really looking forward to this. The art is already great, and there will be a lot of interesting background information in it.

The start is the best part of it. Because at that point a faction can still be 100% the “army of your dreams” for everyone. It’s sad for me to see that quite a lot of people who were posting excitedly at the start of the Lumineth threat (and even in its predecessors) are really disappointed in what the Lumineth turned out to be, some of them waiting for 5 years like myself. I’m lucky, because although the army turned out to be quite different from what I imagined it would be in many ways, I really like the outcome. It’s in many ways better than I thought. But sadly community-wise , there was more excitement and fun at the start. Which is also important.

Speaking of pictures, they released this here on Facebook. In case some people haven't seen it. They were not ****** around when they called the two-handed hammer a "World Hammer".

Yeah, makes even more sense now that they call the two-handed version a "World Hammer". I hope they also have a picture where this thing goes toe to toe with a demon army. Even a few Orruks might go "ok, that's legit"! I also love the mage. The hand posture even seems to say to the Mountain King "wait, I got this". Hahaha

Yup, in a way I think T&T being part of one of the 4 elements would not make that much sense. They represent all of them (that's what they also made clear in the Teclis model, where Zenith doesn't have a special place, he mastered all). The Moon Spirit also has it's own symbol which is not connected to zenith, whereas the Mountain Spirit (and King) just has the Mountain Rune as its symbol. Btw. GW posted this : ). The Sun Spirit also has its own rune, not connected to any other. So only T&T (and by association the Sun and Moon Spirits) would make perfect sense. I agree, the 4 elements seem not to be on a hierarchy. They always talked about sub-cultures, not castes or similar vocabulary which implies ranks. Light would make really a lot of sense for zenith, and they might go with that. But it would make less sense in another way. The other 3 are clearly just fancy names for the traditional elements: earth, water, air, and then light? Not fire? They could go with the Phoenix for air, they also for some reason didn't associate Phoenixes with Realm of Fire, so it's possible. Traditionally though the Phoenix a symbol of the Sun (and fire of course). So my guess would be the Sun Spirit is the phoenix-dragon monster we saw on the Dawnrider banner (again Sun is part of the name of the unit). And comes with Tyrion. Wind I think would be connected to another wind creature. But how this all connects with Zenith, I have no idea. On the other hand on some of the pictures the Phoenix emerges out of a burning brazier, very similar to what the veiled lady is holding. So it could be wind. : ) Really looking forward to how this all comes together. We also have the different nations within the Lumineth. I guess all the nations are made up of the 4 sub-cultures, but it could be that one predominates some of the nations. And they just showed this on FB:

Yeah really good question. It doesn't really fit conceptually with the other three. I always thought it's sun and moon (so T&T) together. But that's also questionable, because they always talk about 4 full factions all with their own mages and warrior guilds. It doesn't really sound like Zenith is above the other three hierarchically, although it's hard to avoid making that connotation in your mind. And what we heard from them in the last reveal, if they Lumineth have to make amends to the Sun/Moon spirits, does that mean they ****** up so badly that they even ruined the Sun and Moon of Hysh? That'd be something. I still think though Sun and Moon is the most likely. We already know that those spirits exist, and they wouldn't make sense in any of the 3 other cultures (but of course they could just be above all of them, I also would think T&T are above the 4 cultures, not part of one. But it could be something hierarchically and zenith is just the top). All the moon, sun and Phoenix symbols don't make much sense otherwise. I also still think the Phoenix Temple might be part of the zenith faction. The Phoenix Temple fits in thematically really well with the Lumineth. Really interested what others think about that.

Hard to say. It looks like the current situation will go on for a while. And in terms of Lumineth, they made a whole lot out of showing off two new units essentially. If they really still have one or more of the elemental factions fully fledged out on hand, I guess you won't see that much of other new factions yet. A teaser like the Pointy Aelves vid maybe? Who knows. At least they are pretty successful in keeping up the suspense. I've been following each little tidbit of information about the Lumineth, and still have no idea if maybe see 3 more units (plus spells/terrain) and that it, or what we have seen so far is just the beginning of the range. You'll be in for quite a ride with the SoB : ).

At least: something that flies (cavalry and/or monster), a war machine and a hero (besides the lady). If they wouldn’t give us some kind oh Phoenix I would be really surprised.