Neverchosen

Hamlet: What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty! In form and moving how express and admirable! In action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god! @zilberfrid Nah, it is just the form part... 😁 I think the relative humanity of Stormcast is a really fun ontological question, what about them is human and in each reforging what is lost. I think it is more than memories but also a certain level of autonomy. But this gives a strange reason to fight and move forward. There is something Sisyphean in their task but also unlike Camus' reading of the story it is a task that is highly alienating. I feel like the Stormcast that wishes to keep their humanity will struggle to fight and survive but one that has experienced enough reforging will have lost that desire. I think there is something fascinating in that notion and maybe a battle weary Stormcast hero may sacrifice them self to save a comrade in arms from losing more of themselves. But after a certain point would they still make that choice or simply work by Sigmar's will? As for a Vampire what they sacrifice is not their bodily humanity but their 'soul'. A Stormcast may not remember who they were but retain a sense of morality or personality, whereas a Vampire has given into hunger. A vampire becomes something other than their true self, losing what we might colloquially refer to as their 'humanity'. Maybe instead of humanity we could define this in terms of soul or personhood? Tying this back to rumours, I saw the suggestion that the new Stormcast units were not a new chamber but from existing ones. This checks out for the units we have seen before, but do we have any information on which chamber the new models will belong to? I am less up to date on lore as many of you here and I am particularly ignorant of the various Chambers and Stormhosts so I apologize if it is super obvious.

I fully agree, I think the marks as a distinguishing factor for chaos is a cool way to differentiate the warscrolls, but in return there is little to make the Liberators feel special. This is especially a shame as they are the infantry of the 'warrior chamber'? I think they should at least hit harder than Sequitors, Vanguard or Vindictors. Also despite defending Chaos Warriors sharing a profile the different base sizes make Liberators objectively less useful in most situations. How can you bring back what never left 😎

Yeah giant magical humans selected by several gods and mutated into fighting machines. I think that Chaos Warriors and Liberators sharing base stats is sensible I think the issue is their special rules which feel a little bland for SCE.

I really like the notion of Stormcast as angelic beings that are trying to retain their humanity. It is an enduringly 'human quality' of their character and in many ways makes them the antithesis of Space Marines. I do think that they share a similar aesthetic and an aloof stoicism but Stormcast carry it is a tragic reminder of their sacrifice. I love the visual of Stormcast standing next to Freeguild units though as it creates a stark contrast between these celestial warriors and their mundane origins. This is why I hope they continue to maintain the ally system between SCE and Cities of Sigmar. There are elements of the SCE I am less enthused about, like I wish they had more races represented in their ranks. I do think that just making them bigger than humans is less interesting ways of showcasing their ascendent nature and wish they had angelic wings or some other shared characteristics. Finally the lightening teleportation thing feels like a game mechanic that was given a lore excuse. But overall I think that they are an interesting faction and I am so thankful they have not reached the same saturation as their sci-fi cousins.

As much as I want my Oedipal King of Edgelordness I would be one hundred percent behind this^ 😁

I am calling it here folks underworlds will be Shadow Aelves vs Chorfs in the ultimate fanservice boxset ever made! Then like Kurnothi the rest of the community will know the joys and pains of hope!

I keep hoping that they have two styles of heads on the sprues that way everyone is happy. Although they did indicate that hobgobs are using armour from their dark patrons so I assume we have an indication of the direction they are going.

I am very interested in the possible implication of the weaponry of the Hobgrots. I am curious if AOS will develop a blast effect rule similar to 40k, it might make black powered artillery more distinctive, be a part of certain monsters, have effects in siege mechanics, and could be a big part of Chaos Dwarves weaponry. I am probably overthinking this but I still want canons to feel different from ballistas and the like.

Calling it now, SCE are getting a major rework and will dominate the meta and as new releases come out they will gladly find themselves back at the bottom of the pile only for history to repeat in 4.0. Such is the life of the 'main posterboy' faction.

@MaatithoftheBrandThank you for your informed response and for filling in many of the blanks in my lore knowledge. I had not realized that there were that many different cults particularly for Sigmar and Nagash. I did know of some of the different aspects of Gorkamorka being worshipped and it will be fun to see how the Kruleboyz factor into it. I also hope that the Hobgrot Slittaz are less into the worship of Kragnos/Gorkamorka indicating their willingness to deal with their dark employers.

In general I find that people are applying monotheistic world view to various AOS armies. It is true that most armies seem to have a patron God but that does not preclude the belief in other Gods... especially as they may have encountered them personally. This isn't a world in which people have to identify purely with a single god or faith (not that ours is either). Keep in mind that the Gods aren't purely metaphysical beings here and their existences do not refute the existence of others. I feel like the new Edition will see the pantheons expand and the lore will likely better reflect pantheistic faiths. We are already starting to see the seeds being sown in Hysh and Shyish. Clearly the Stormcast see Sigmar as the supreme leader of the Gods but they will fight alongside the followers of other Gods and, alongside the rest of Azyr, owe a massive debt of gratitude to Grungi. Morathi opened the door to powerful characters obtaining Godhood and there is a chance we will see more of that. I am hoping we see a similar ascent for Valaya and some more Duardin Gods. I feel like Sigmar works as the defacto Human God with a bit of a Sol Invictus vibe. I feel like Sigmar has a lot of monotheistic followers that are flagrantly refusing to believe that the Gods of Magic and Death just had a massive battle outside their front window. Nagash also seems to propagate a monotheistic faith in his own favour. Also we have the KO who scorn the worship of gods as they feel the gods had turned their backs on them. If anything Kragnos is tied to the belief in Gorkamorka as his shield chipped Gorkamorka's tooth. I am willing to bet that Destruction will fill out it's own animistic pantheon under Gorkamorka, maybe taking a cue from Kragnos and being Godbeasts based around natural disasters. Some cool ideas could be an Ogroid god of Blizzards, a massive Kraken God of Floods, a Draconian God of Eruptions or a Bellowing Titan to be the God of Hurricanes. I also think this would be a good reason to introduce King Brodd for @KingBrodd, and make him the God of Hype! Finally the Gods of Chaos are a much more metaphysical set of beings that are likely more familiar to the faiths in our own world, only a massive and negative corruption of them. But even in Chaos worship it is not a clear cut pantheistic or monotheistic practice of worship. There are cults around champions such as Archaon and Be'Lakor and also people worshipping aspects of the Chaos Gods unknowingly such as the Warcry warbands. Some follow a single Chaos god and others will chose to worship all four, whereas others may see them as manifested aspects of the truly unknowable force of Chaos, which is my preferred version of the story. In terms of the game I think it is best to never truly represent the literal embodiments of the Chaos Gods merely their demonic avatars and 'mortal' champions. So in other words, I agree with you and do not see following Kragnos and Gorkamorka to be a conflict of interest, it is merely an example of game recognizing game.

So do we know if the Praetors and Annihilators undersized or 3 person units? As a side note I think I will use the hallowed knights theme replacing blue with black...

This is surprisingly close to the initial premise I developed for my Slaves to Darkness. I developed them around the theme of how crusaders must feel too an enemy army. But as I learned more about the lore of AOS I made them fit it a little closer by making them fallen servants of Sigmar who crusaded into the Eightpoints and were confronted with the existential horror that their god was lesser than the Gods of Chaos. So now they have joined Archaon's legions to crusade against the lands they once called home. If I get a Stormcast army I have decided that they are the soldiers that remained loyal to Sigmar who through all their reforging remember only one thing... the faces of the foes they once called friends. In this way they both once were around a Bretonnian theme of chivalric quests but turned onto the opposite ends of the ideological spectrum. Also I have Beastclaw Raiders who are a bunch of noble mounted heroes... so maybe those are my Bretonnians?

Back again for my usual long winded and unsolicited first impression. 🤠 Overall thoughts: I will try and pick up a copy but I know that I will lose out to scalpers. If I do get my hands on it, I will likely split the box. I will have to let Be’Lakor and Kragnos wait as finances are tight. It was a fun preview and I am really excited for these releases. Trailer: It was cool seeing the new units in cinematic form but the heavy handed narration and mannered performance of the Stromast hero felt very akin to how Space Marines are portrayed in 40k. I think that GW has done a good job thus far of differentiating their stoic tough guy poster boys in terms of feel but this felt a little like a step backwards. When it left Azyr things got much more exciting. I do like that they showcased the wonderful art from the game and hinted at the bigger universe but that battle was significantly cooler. Duardin fighting off the forces of destruction really made me feel vindicated as I have been arguing that would be a central tenet of this edition and at least visually it is being represented. But overall I liked seeing the threat posed by the new army. Overall enjoyable although maybe tonally a little dull and to simillar to GW’s typical fair. I was hoping for more of the fun fairy tale feel of the recent destruction trailers. SCE: These are by far my favourite SCE models. If I do split the box I will likely keep this side as I am looking for a heroic force to combat my forces of Chaos and Ogres. It took them awhile but they have really nailed the aesthetic for Stormcast. Yndrasta: is my new favourite model in the Stormcast line. She is what I wanted from the range, angelic paladin warriors. I will have her be the rival of my Demon Prince but I hope she can be run as a generic hero so I can develop my own lore. Lord Imperatant: love the helmet and the Ian McKellen face, beyond that he is a fairly plain hero. I think the command rod is a tad boring but I think as a generic hero he is great. These generic heroes are actually where I think Stormcast really succeed. Also bird-doggo is always a plus. Knight Arcanum: I adore SCE Spellcaster models and that masked face is so dope and creepy. I like that she shows that they are not simply turning their backs on past units. Knight Vexillor: I am typically not a massive fan of banner bearer heroes as I prefer them in units, but the religious iconography make this work better for me as a single hero holding the banner of faith in defiance of their enemy. Praetors: These are my favourite of the non-heroes and possibly beat out Evacuators as my favourite Stormcast unit. Halberds have an amazing aesthetic and something that learned about through playing warhammer fantasy and have become my favourite medieval weapon. Annihialtors: I will confess these are not my favourite of the line… They do seem fun to paint and will likely fit my defensive playstyle. Maybe a head swap will help out? I think they could grow on me and I might think of a fun theme or scheme for them but for now they are my least favourite. Vindicators: are still some of the best SCE Basic troops but that is also where SCE fall short for me. I do love the shields and spears and the varied troops types. Like the banners here for sure… I will probably do Helmetless Champs and the rest in helmets to differentiate at a glance. Knight Judicator with Gryphounds: Pretty cool pose and awesome hounds but a fairly generic hero. Stormstrike Chariot: My most wanted unit type for SCE ,I will probably run two and I love that it is a ranged unit. Makes me think for visual coherency that I could add some Palladors for matching Cavalry. Kruleboyz: Time to throw out your old orcs! The description of them being LOTR styled orcs absolutely fit the bill, but these still look like they fit within the Warhammer world. I much prefer them to the SCE but I don’t think they top my love of BCR. I do think they look like a challenge to paint! Also I much preferred the little preview before their reveal. Killaboss: Terrifying hero model with an amazing mount. I do find the mash tooth pose to be a little strange. Otherwise this is a great looking hero. Shaman and Pot Grot: Fantastic model that really tells a story. The spell being poured is an amazing detail. The assistant grots are the best part of this army. Killaboss and Stab-grot: No one cares about this Killaboss but Stab-Grot is love Stab Grot is life. Murknob: This dudes face is amazingly detailed and sinister. I also totally called the impaled tongue being a stinky gross part of a display banner. Again heroes carrying banners are not my favourite thing in the world but this thing is so grotesque that I love it. Bolt Boyz: These are the best looking ranged unit I think I have seen introduced for AOS. I hope they put Lumineth to shame even if they lack the same rules. Gutrippaz: Once again a really fantastic looking unit. They look rough and tumble generic but in the best possible way. Hobgrot Slittaz: We getting our first hints at Chaos Dwarves?!?! I cannot wait to see that armour on some Dwarves and for them to march alongside my Chaos Warriors Probably my favourite unit in the box but what they represent is bigger for me. Beast Skewer: Cool looking warmachine, I love the grots on the base. It seems ramshackle which I hope is somehow reflected in the rules. BreakaBoss: Now I am reconsidering which side of the box I will take. Trolls are likely my favourite troop choice in fantasy strategy games and this model is amazing. I love the hero on top and this looks deadly. Books: The core book looks great and the other book is… neat. I will likely not read the black library novel but that is cool. New Edition: Fun and cute little presentation. Best Rules: we will see about that. Heroes: My armies are very hero heavy so this is a big plus for me and really connects with what I love about the game. Monsters: I hope this will be a massive boon to monster heavy armies such as Beastclaw Raiders. I will be happiest with new Objective control rules like with Ogre Mawtribes. New Turn Order Mechanics: I love the turn roll off but if the balance between choosing to go second is actually tactically implemented I will be so happy and hopefully it will help with the reputation of the rule. Reactive command abilities: obviously this will make reacting to the opponent’s turn more active but it will be interesting to see how it balances with command points and hero mechanics. I can see this involving me putting on my best 4Kids Yugi voice claiming they activated my Trap Card until my opponent quits in frustration. Magic Endless spells: Still not sold on the idea… at least they will be integrated into the rules themselves. Battalions: I feel this change is contentious but I am not a fan of the current battalion system so this speaks to me. Narrative campaign: Likely the thing I am most tentatively excited about. I do not play 40k but I heard wonderful things about their narrative play and look forward to using it with my friends. I also have 2 armies with the hopeful addition of one of these and as such it will be fun to develop an ongoing narrative between them that I can have friends jump in and take over for one side for a game or two. Maybe they will be compelled by my own interconnected story for my armies. In summation: I think this was a really cool and fun presentation and I really hope to get the box but if I miss it I will not feel like it was the end of the world. Both factions look great and despite preferring the Kruleboyz I am leaning towards SCE.

Sorry I meant no offence 😕 I love Bretonnians and truly want them back. I have listed on this site many times how I much I would want them to return. However, I do also really think it is a fascinating idea that the Flesh Eater Courts are linked to Bretonnians and are not a replacement for the army but kind of their dark reflection. They are their cursed kin and they could be enemies of a new Bretonnian order. I think a Bretonnian themed army fighting against the Flesh Eaters is like a dream come true for me... I also really hoped it would come across as a joke as I think there are better parallels to Bretonnian's chivalry within the game in the SCE and Cities of Sigmar. Although a truly new take on Bretonnia would be much more welcome from me.

I feel like I am about to contribute no substance to this thread, which honestly matches my M.O. for the most part. 😅 I feel like COVID has really altered my perspective and enjoyment of the game in a strangely negative way. I have not been able to play and it has lead me to look at warscrolls in a purely theoretical mode and I have become much more negatively critical in my appraisal of certain rules than if I were to see the units on the battlefield. For example I am kinda kicking around the idea of a third army for when I am done my BCR army and the possibilities feel endless and one army that peaks my interest is Lumineth. I keep thinking of the criticism the army has received and the archer and magic spam that makes them considered unpleasant to play against. But I mostly want to get some Dawn Riders, Bladelords and maybe a Moontain or a Flying Fox and I don't really plan on spamming anything. Conversely I am interested in Slaanesh as a potential expansion of my Slaves to Darkness and I would absolutely be willing to run Slaangors despite their warscroll. I think of this as a hobby first and a game second but in the recent months of not playing I have weirdly started putting more stock in the views of competitive players when in reality I will run what I like and if a rule is broken or unplayable I will discuss it with my opponent and we can find terms we agree upon. But that is why I enjoy friendly games it lets us decide on certain mechanics and methods of balancing regarding our own skills and armies. But overall I have enjoyed the game and not had the same issues discussed on much of these boards... and my army is likely the least competitive army possible. In summation, I have really enjoyed the game and when I am playing with friend's balance is not my biggest concern but over the past few months it is something that has become more of an issue as I think more about the game than play.

I know that this is blurry and I don't know what it is but I can't help but love it. Maybe it is my love of fantasy, my interest in fairy tale creatures particularly goblins and fay folk, or maybe it is because that level of blurriness reflects my own poor vision and painting skills but somehow this looks infinitely better than that CGI version form the trailer.

Yes all of that is pretty applicable now I am very intrigued!

So strange question, what happens to the molds for old plastic miniatures. If they released a true Dispossessed faction (Soup or not) would they use all new sculpts or revive old minis? I feel like with the change to Cities and the retirement of classic Dispossessed we lost a number of great sculpts. I know they do limited runs of old Resin/Metal kits could they bring back the Ol' Dwarves?

Same on all counts, hopefully things turn around and we are both able to pick it up. 😁 I will say I do really wish this was a warcry game though as I feel those mechanics would translate fantastically into a turn based strategy rpg video game. I wonder if licence holders are given the information of such properties though as they develop their own products?

It is interesting seeing the way you have things laid out as it brings into sharper relief the idea that most of the soup armies are actually reconstitution of older factions. Maybe that is why the Duardin example sticks out beyond lore reasons as it is taking two armies that are fairly unique and combining them into something much more generic. I do think that the introduction of new Dispossessed could pose a potential aesthetic bridge between the two. This may also explain why Idoneth also feel like strange bedfellows with the other purposed Aelven soups as they could easily fit in with the other factions lorewise by building an alliance, or making amends after abandoning them... but they still feel entirely unique entity from the others. Namely if Idoneth were to become a part of Lumineth, DoK, Sylvaneth or Malerion's forces they will very much be the cool Fishy subfaction with it's own set of rules.

Thank you, I had forgotten a number of those release (hence, the dimwittedness in my last post). I really do think that people are getting pretty upset over the idea of soup armies and in an editions time if these armies get no further support I will join the chorus. But for now I see soup armies getting roughly equal support as their non-souped rivals.

I don't see the contradiction personally, I was just stating the degrees of support that they received and how I do not think that is reason to panic. I also state that Cities of Sigmar is slowly getting more releases and that both Soulblight and Slaves to Darkness got massive releases.. but I am exceptionally dimwitted and likely contradict myself frequently. ☹️ You and I are essentially arguing the same thing here, namely that there is a mix of support for souped armies and that Spiderfang got less support than the rest of the faction*. I am not trying to argue anything, just simply point out that people act like soup factions get less than other armies and I am showcasing that they essentially get the same level of support. Unless we are comparing it to an entirely new army like Lumineth but even then when the second wave hit there was no new support for Alarith. *although as our friend @dirkdragonslayerpoints out below Spiderfang helped inform the aesthetics and direction of a number of the newer Gloomspite releases. With an endless spell that feels specifically designed for the subfaction.

Personally I think the idea that souping a faction means they wont get future support is something that has little evidence behind it. So far it is true that a number of armies that were souped had little new releases but have gotten roughly the same degree of support as most other armies (a new hero model and maybe endless spells or terrain). Yet even with these examples I think people are making things out to be more drastic than they were. Cities of Sigmar, if the rumours are true, essentially saved many disparate factions from being squatted and it's success may actually have influenced the ongoing narrative, likely leading to further support for the line. This is evidenced by the importance in Broken Realms and the number of cool new models they received between Cursed City and now the Father and Daughter in Broken Realms. Warclans really got the short end of the stick but also drastically increased two of the smaller ranges and opened up a cool narrative purpose for bringing together disparate factions. Mawtribes and Skaven got roughly the same level of support as the other releases in 2.0 which is a new hero model and some terrain and for Skaven endless spells. However, Gloomspite got a massive overhaul and new releases. I think the only thing untouched from the Gloomspite release were the Spiderfangs which are a really cool albeit slightly more niche but fully playable subfaction. Technically I would consider both Slaves to Darkness and Soulblight to have many elements of Soup armies and both got massive updates as well. To me this indicates that people are jumping to conclusions about soup armies getting less support, as many of the soup armies got a massive releases. So if there was a Duardin Soup army on the horizon it might mean that one subfaction might get a little less love for the time being but that does not indicate that there will be no future releases. To suggest otherwise is to ignore the support that has already occurred for a number of the soup factions already. I have suggested a few times that I do not think Kharadron might end up in a Duardin soup but that is premised entirely off of their current popularity not because I think it will hamper their releases. I also still think that adding Chaos Dwarfs to the S2D soup is likely the best way to approach that army from a sales perspective as it essentially guarantees their survival as a faction tied to one of the most popular armies in the game. This is a strange question but did fantasy or 40k ever merge armies into soup lists before?

Say goodbye to 2.0 friends! 😦 This has possibly been covered but the French Canadian version of Storm Strike is no longer available online. The English version of Soul Wars is currently listed as temporarily out of stock but not gone. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Age-Of-Sigmar-Storm-Strike-2018-fre