Landohammer

Impossible to say. We have literally only seen 2 warscrolls. One was great and one was terrible lol. Our entire battleline system and allegiance abilities are probably changing. Personally a single unit of Gossamids will be an auto-include for me. And context clues are telling us that the melee builds for Kurnoth Hunters will likely be solid, if expensive. The Echoes of Doom box is definitely a good start, just build the Kurnoth Hunters as melee.

Yea there just isn't a need for tanky archers. Especially when we have Gossamids for ~40 less points. And gossamids have a 24" threat range which isn't exactly shabby.

Just for everyone's information, the fake Blood Stalker warscroll is already making the rounds in my local FB group. Admittedly the "NotWhiteFang" name cracked me up, but these do more harm than good. Now excuse me while I go breakup multiple fights between some DoK, NH, and HoS players.

Thoughts on Bow Kurnoth. There is no getting around it. They are still trash. Regarding potential allegiance abilities: People said the same thing about Crossboos but they are still terrible (and they are a brand new kit!). There is only so much you can do with a bad warscroll. I see no reason to take these guys over Gossamids, unless there is a double tap or hero phase command ability available to double their use. HOWEVER the standard 3+ save is absolutely HUUUUGEE for the melee versions of kurnoth, putting you on a 2+ in cover or with All out Defense. New Envoys also has some potential under the right circumstances: Imagine charging two big units of Kurnoth into combat, popping all out attack and hitting the 4+ so they both benefit. Previously we had to jump through a lot of hoops (TLA, camping in cover, or not piling in) to get to the 3+. So we were very vulnerable to a lot of low rend attacks. Now we can get to a "real" 2+ so rend 0 and rend 1 aren't as effective vs us.

Not much as changed for us regarding turn 1. You either screen and prepare for the alpha or you deepstrike and hope for the 9+. The coach is still a pretty good tool for sending into your opponents lines early on, and with its teleport and base size, it can really muck up your opponents movement plans. I think the trick to winning with our army is to mitigate what charges your opponent makes on their turn, so you can rush forward and capitalize on WOT during your own turn. So screens and tarpits still have a lot of value.

Gossamids: Based on how the NH were treated in their new book, I think mortal wound shooting is a thing of the past. I am also curious how insect projectiles will translate into game rules tho. I am assuming either a lot of low rend attacks (think d6 hits per shot) or perhaps even a debuff like -1 to hit. Lady of Vines: They specifically said she would be similar to Drycha in terms of output. So probably around 300pts. Likely a jack of all trades unit with casting, shooting and decent fighting. Also note they mentioned she would have access to summoning. So I am thinking she is more like a supercharged branchwraith. Lancers: Spot on. This unit will probably be one of our biggest gains. Previously we have had to rely on allies for fast shock units. Seekers: I wouldn't be suprised if these guys weren't wizards like Sisters of the Thorn. But having access to buffed Rally also makes sense. It was very interesting that there were only two pictured. I'm curious if a hero build option is possible? Overall this reveal was about the best I could have hoped for. I love the bug/fairy aesthetic and our basic troop options essentially just doubled. My main concern at this point is that they get Spites Revenants and allegiance abilities right. But so far I am very optimistic! Also the endless spells need some love!

People still buy the books? I found it weird they spent so much time on the one skaven model but didn't even touch on Nighthaunt or DOK which are supposed to be imminent. Like, couldn't we have gotten a date? Sylvaneth models blew my mind though. They are on another level.

I'm just not seeing all the Myrmourn love. At 26pts per wound, and capped at 8 models, they aren't going to net much return on their points. Units of 4 are doubly useless, because 4 aren't strong enough to wipe a unit, and return attacks will wipe out every banshee in combat that hasn't swung yet. Not to mention they bleed points to shooting like nothing else. Their anti-magic is strong in theory, but it can be avoided by simply targeting another unit. Having access to the Arcane Tome essentially made the midnight tome redundant. I actually think its one of our more powerful items considering the damage output of the Shyish Reaper or Mortalis. But personally I will be taking the Lightshard most of the time.

They work just fine. You just have to keep them in units of 10 and multi-charge them. Like I said earlier, I support them with either a Kruciator or a black coach to make sure I plink wounds off before they activate. Just make sure you avoid units with standard 3+ saves. You absolutely do not want these ladies running into a potential 2+ save. Thats what Kurdoss and the Coach are for.

This is a win. Trust me. Sylvaneth is my main army and having to transport a separate container just for forests (that often never make it to the table) is a nightmare.

I can't see any situation where Crossboos are a relevant take. A single kruciator brings a lot more to the table, is more survivable, AND can reliably plink wounds to buff harridans. If I truly wanted meaningful shooting output I would spam Chainghasts, bring Olynder, or bring a shooty Black Coach build. I think so. If I had to make a prediction on what the "net list" NH list would be, it would be bladegheist revenant spam in Scarlet Doom. The relatively reliable mortal wound output and battleline status is hard to pass up. I think our biggest weakness is going to be having to deal with high save units popping all-out-defense, since ALOT of our profiles have no rend. Bladegheists shine here, especially if they hit that magic 8+ charge roll.

The "no retreat" rule DEFINITELY messes us up bad. Fortunately I have played a few games vs it and somewhat expected that though. The two big problems the incarnate causes me is A) it has a huge reroll charge aura that is extremely powerful for deepstrike armies like nurgle and B) it is essentially invulnerable for two turns, giving it the ability to guarantee two activations without any significant bracketing. That being said, our ethereal is a good match for all of its high rend attacks, if a bit swingy. For example I popped discorporate and rolled hot and only took 1 damage on Kurdoss. Though in the next combat it murdered an entire unit of Bladegheists. I can't imagine there are many books that would be worse off by taking an Incarnate (maybe the overperforming books like DoK or seraphon). He adds a lot to whatever army he is in and he is a 400pt monster that is guaranteed to stay on the table for 2 turns. Hard to find fault with that.

Looks like the internet is split 50/50 on if this is a Snotling or a Spite riding the bug. I am leaning toward Spite but the underwear is throwing me off lol.

In this case I did not know what my opponent was bringing before I made my list. But honestly I NEVER tailor a list to an opponent. I like dreadscythes and I always wished they could be battleline. So my list basically built itself. Yea harridans are definitely a high skill unit. The impact hits from the coach (or maybe even hexwraiths or Drowner) are ideal since it lets the harridans activate first with the buff already active. Also I was using Discorporate in just about every situation I could. Its essentially our All out Defense. Honestly i think our new wave of terror rules are really where the strength lies. It wasn't that uncommon for me to nail two 8+ charges and put a unit at -2 armor save and of course the Always Strike Last effect is super powerful. I got one of those as well. Honestly I felt like I should have won the game TBH. But we were playing Tectonic Interference and I had consistently bad rolls on the Alpha objective (it was nearly always favorable to my opponent) and the Incarnate was a HUGE problem to deal with. I think with a bit more practice (and not relying on potato cam photos) I can probably compete with most armies.

Played a game with new rules using Quicksilver Dead vs Nurgle w/Incarnate List was 3x10 Harridans, 2x10 bladegheist, 2x8 myrmourn, kurdoss, and kruciator. Lost 25-26, here is my hot take. The Good -Kurdoss is an absolute beatstick in melee. He single handedly put 20+ wounds on the incarnate over the course of the game and bashed in several strong units. Also stole 2CP as well! -Harridans are amazing on the charge, but getting the enemy unit wounded before they strike is tricky. They pair well with the Kruciator since he can plink wounds off before they charge and his -1 damage combos well with their -1 to wound and potential -1 to hit. -Harrdians in quicksilver dead hitting a 8+ on the charge actually put nurgle in multiple situations where they got no save OR ward. I can't stress how powerful felt to just pour wounds into a unit without ANY saves. I killed entire units of plagebearers in a single round which NEVER happens otherwise. -The black coach was an absolute menace. A 4+/4++ with 12 wounds and a free teleport each turn was incredibly hard for my opponent to kill. He also did 7 mortals with this explosion. The Bad -Myrnmourn didn't do anything of value. My opponent didnt have much magic and just shot them off early. I think I will pass on them in the future. Their points per wound is absolutely insane and they burned valuable reinforcement points. -The effectiveness of our units seems to rely entirely on getting the charge off. I bled a lot of points in my opponents turn and a few key failed charges were devastating. Verdict Overall I am really digging the new book. There is still a lot to sort through (I'm honestly torn between Emerald Host, Scarlet Doom, and Quicksilver Dead) but it looks to be a solid mid-tier book overall with the ability to perform better with higher skill and thats exactly what I wanted.

I agree. I think our battleline options are fundamentally broken, but the Tree Revenants have remained a solid take for the last two books. However if we get battleline unlocks (like literally every book in 3rd so far) then its possible they will become less of an auto-include. But if we have to lose the super-useful teleport of tree-revs to get more effective battleline options I won't complain. A well balanced book means all of the options will have equal appeal, even if some units have to take a step down in capability. I am tired of taking minimum battleline vs armies made entirely of battleline. We shouldn't be limited to 5+ save 16pt per wound units IMHO.

I like the allegiance abilities that change with the round. They keep things interesting over the course of many games and also act as a kind of balancing mechanism since the most powerful buffs are only around for a limited time. We are definitely seeing an emergence of these kinds of rules in the SM doctrines, deepkin tides, nurgle wheel, necron powers and I think chaos knights and chaos marines are getting something similar In the case of DOK it incentivizes striking them early. And I like that it can be played around. There are very few situations in AOS where I feel overwhelmed with rules. As opposed to 40k where its definitely an issue.

My central point is that I want the book to be balanced regardless of how that impacts the appeal of the army to new players. Maybe we are on the same page?

At this point I am long past being concerned about barrier of entry prices. The forest spamming and spite revenant cost per model put us easily into the top 3 most expensive armies to start. Lets face it, most of us already have the entire range anyway. Selling Sylvaneth to new players is GW's problem, not mine. I hope you are right about Kurnothi but I am doubtful. However the two sylvaneth flags displayed in the teaser does give me some hope that our release may be a bit more substantial than previously expected. Current expectations are the battletome and a boxset that includes a new hero. Perhaps a new unit in that boxset like nighthaunt got. GW releasing a fully Kurnothi half of the box would be simply amazing. Your example of Slaanesh mortals does give me hope!

Could be a new Chaos Spawn model for the Chaos Space Marine book. Looks like it has bloodthirster wings, crab legs, human hands, and tzeentch fire (and maybe a fat nurgle leg). Might even be some kind of greater Chaos Spawn.

I disagree. The meta is mostly dominated by strong monsters. And the Sylvaneth lists that do manage wins aren't the ones taking the big tree heroes. As it stands our monsters are only taken for 2 reasons competitively. (and I say "competitively" knowing full well we aren't competitive in any real sense). Either as a means to make our 1 good unit better (TLA supporting Hunters) or as a mobile source of mortal wound shooting to get by AOD (Drycha). I am 100% on board with Treelords becoming 300-400pts monstrosities that people fear. We don't need discount 180pt monsters (Hunters are always going to be better) and we have way too many ~300pt heroes. We need roster diversity. At this point, ANYTHING can be battleline. We have dragon, leviadon, stegadon, terrorgeists, felwater trolls, eels, blood Knights, Ironguts, etc, etc, etc as battleline. So I fully expect some version of them to become battleline. I just assume there will be some kind of cost. For example, locking them to a specific subfaction that is particularly weak. Or requiring a certain expensive hero to be General. The real test of the sylvaneth book (other than our core allegiance rules becoming more substantial) is if they do anything to make Spites and Dryads more appealing. But like I said in my other post, based on the Fyreslayer and Deepkin books, they don't appear to be modifying core troops much. However, plaguebearers are the exception. Those guys received an entirely new warscroll. So who knows at this point! Man I wish this book would hurry up!

I would keep an eye on how GW handles the Horus Heresy 2nd edition launch for a guide to how they will handle the mass update of many factions. I can't imagine they would only provide rules for 2 chapters upon launch. Surely all armies would get a PDF to tie them over. I mean if I can't play my preferred chapter then I'm likely to hold off buying anything. But thats just me personally. For models I imagine that many existing models can be retrofitted to function in old word armies. For example a skeleton, zombie, bloodletter, treelord, chaos warrior etc haven't really changed. So I don't see a reason whey they wouldn't have Day 1 rules to some extent. Even if their faction wasn't fully fleshed out yet.

So if we want to take some guidance from the recent book updates, most notably Deepkin and Fyreslayers: Its not likely our core infantry models will change all that much. Simplification seems to be the common theme and our units are pretty simple. Most of the big changes to recent books revolve around allegiance/sub allegiance updates, monsters and heroes. Monsters - Monsters seem to be getting significantly scarier, with significantly higher point costs. Look to the Leviadon and Magmadroths. Both are pretty terrifying now and the Leviadon is now 500pts. (up ~100pts). How this will impact us: I'm betting Treelords become more expensive, but a lot tougher. Heroes - Similar to monsters, heroes got better but with marginal cost increases. And auto-takes were adjusted. For example the Akhelian King (formerly just an ok hero tax) became an insane beatstick. The cheaper heroes were mildly retooled and made more appealing. How this will impact us: The branchwych, arch revenant, and branchwraith will probably get reworked into different roles. Our monster heroes will likely come at a premium but become significant battlefield presences. Allegiance abilities - This is where the true power of the book will likely come. The deepkin tides were expanded and buffed (and they were arguably a decent book already). And the sub factions no longer lock your traits/artefacts. Battleline unlocks were altered/added. How this will impact us- battleline unlocks of Treelords, and potentially even Kurnoth. Expansion of our allegiance rules to a significant degree.

Is it confirmed that the new Thondian book is officially the new matched play setting? There seems to be some confusion in my group as to whether this is an optional supplement or an actual GHB level matched play update. If so that battalion might give me some piece of mind lol. And being one-drop is just icing on the cake. I know a lot of us are annoyed at just how terrible our only monster continues to be, but I wouldn't count on the Mourngal getting an update in the codex. GW doesn't typically update FW warscrolls in their codexes. We will need to wait on another Monstrous Arcanum update, and unfortunately those are painfully rare.

Fair, but in his defense he usually kills anything on his objective. And its not like the 125pts you save would be spent on anything meaningful in NH anyway . I also can't imagine the bound hero will be contributing much besides hiding behind a rock. I don't want to kill any ones hype (god knows we need something exciting right now) but I can def see some people getting buyer's remorse when their bound hero gets ganked early on and you end up fighting 400pts of your own army