Rentar
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Reference for how the Daemon Prince will stand -
To place on the stand after painting -
I think the reason people are calling Fiends bad is that they work best against multi-wound units... but don't generate depravity points. We want our heroes killing those multi-wound units, not our units; we want our units killing hordes and chaff. Fiends are anti-synergistic with one of our primary mechanics.
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Currently considering the following two 2k lists for a tournament next month: The first is a 7-drop with 6 heroes, generating CP solely off the Rod of Misrule: and the 2-drop variant, with 2 battalions and Supreme Sybarites as a source of CPs. I'm also considering the following Depraved Drone-based build, but I don't have that many Ungors painted and... well, I don't think I can get everything done to a standard I'm comfortable with by the Tournament. Effectively, the first has The Masque as a unit to harass enemy support heroes. Cavalry speed (10"+D6) and low profile (25 mm) lets The Masque squeeze around the edges of enemy lines to hit a priest/wizard/sniper unit, and those typically have 5" movement. Of course, the points are wasted if the opponent lacks any such units, but those are units that Slaanesh would have trouble reaching/dealing with. Admittedly overlaps a little with the role of the Infernal Enrapturess (24" sniper?) but The Masque is a little more tanky and less troubled by line of sight shenanigans. The second drops The Masque in favour of a Supreme Sybarites Battalion, giving me a 2-drop army (effectively guaranteeing I get choice against most armies), which is essential against stuff like DoK, which is almost guaranteed to appear (there's a regular at that particular FLGS that pulls out his DoK for tournaments). Also, it gives me a third artefact (Whip of Subversion, though this is of course subject to change). All my Slaanesh lists run Cogs, mostly for the +2 run/charge bonus, though the additional spell might be used at some points? The bonus is there to more than double the chance summoned units get into battle the turn they're summoned, of course (27.8% to roll a 9+, 58.3% to roll a 7+). Skintaker and Sinistrous Hand give the Keepers some pretty ridiculous staying power, especially coupled with both Born of Damnation and Progeny of Damnation. So: What do you guys think? Any opinions on which list to run, artefacts to change, etc?
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Also something to note is that most people have a lot of Daemonettes and Seekers and possibly also Infernal Enrapturesses (those that were playing Slaanesh even before the announcement, mostly), and... Few have that many chariots. To run a decent Godseekers army, you'd need at least 8 kits (each SC box counts as 2), maybe even up to 12. The most worthwhile hero chariot is the Exalted, and you want normal non-hero Seeker Chariots for your battleline and the only non-hero unit that can retreat/charge, so a minimum of 3 plus as many heroes as you can muster. You also want Cogs for the charge, an Epitome to almost guarantee that the Cogs go off (83% vs 58% is no small jump), an Enrapturess to sit on the Fane, and a Keeper so you can actually use your CPs to maximum effectiveness... Also POSSIBLY a Seeker Cavalcade so even if you retreat and your charge fails, you can pile in and continue attacking (though I wouldn't recommend it). So, in short, you want at the very minimum: 1 KoS (360) 1 Enrapturess (140) 1 Contorted Epitome (200) 1 Seeker Chariot (120) 1 Seeker Chariot (120) 1 Seeker Chariot (120) 1 Chronomantic Cogs (60) For a minimum of 1120. If you pick up a Seeker Cavalcade, that's an additional 320 minimum, but let's put that to one side. add 3 Bladebringers on Exalted Chariots for 660 and another Seeker Chariot, pushing it to 1900... That's 10 kits, which include no Daemonettes and no Seekers, which leaves a huge number of people's models on the side. I don't think it's so much a case of people thinking Godseekers are bad, but more a case that... people... don't... have enough chariots.
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So I asked around, and a friend of mine has some (5) spare Javelins from a Marauder Horseman set which I can make use of as spears. I'm also thinking I can probably grab a helmeted head (or two?) from him for leader(s) and use some spare heads from a number of other kits for the normal Hellstriders. Problem is getting another 10 spears/javelins, but I'll see if anyone in my area can spare me a couple. I'm sure there's at least a few kits that'll work.
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Speaking of... Anyone have any tips on converting seekers into hellstriders? I have all the seekers I could ever want and then some, but no hellstriders and I'd rather not buy those ugly models. Any tips for where to get the mortals and spears? Whips I can get from the exalted chariot kits (since they come with an extra 2 if you build exalteds)
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To get it off, yes. They have to be within 9" during their hero phase. However, the effect lasts until the subsequent hero phase, so if you're taking turn 1, you're getting at least 2 combat rounds of rerolled saves, and up to 3.
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Problem here is what happens if they wrap the shooters? A bubblewrap of clanrats around Warp Lightning cannons or a layer of Liberators/Sequitors around Longstrikes/Ballistas etc. When you have strong range and good defense... I realize you can play the objective game, but what I mean is more along the lines of... What happens if their firepower is sufficent that it hurts enough that ignoring it is almost impossible? e.g. 9 Longstrikes in Anvils can easily dish out 20+ wounds per round. That's not really something you can ignore, especially since once turn 3 rolls around then can push out and try and gain map superiority, especially if you're playing in something like Blood and Glory where you don't accumulate points in each round.
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According to the designers, Shalaxi Helbane is addressed with gender neutral pronouns. From: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/26/slaanesh-designer-insightsgw-homepage-post-3/ (emphasis mine) Back to the game discussion, how do we find the points to fit Shalaxi, 2 KoS, and enough Daemonettes to fight off hordes? KoS - 360 KoS - 360 Helbane - 340 is already 1060 30 Daemonettes - 300 5 Hellstriders - 100 pushes it to 1460, and you still need a third battleline. 10 daemonettes is of limited use, but if you take the 30 it's 1760 and you've only got 3 heroes and no battalions for CPs to maximise the CA of the KoS, nor any support heroes of your own. If you pick Invaders, you could grab the Rod of Misrule I suppose, but then it's difficult to put your KoS together to maximise their effectiveness. The best I could come up with on short notice is KoS (General), Gryph-feather charm (or another artefact maybe) KoS Helbane Viceleader/Masque (General) Contorted Epitome (General), Rod of Misrule In a Supreme Sybarites battalion 1500 points so far, which lets you grab 30 Daemonettes and 2 units of 5 Hellstriders. You get CPs from the Rod and CPs from Sybarites, and a rod-holder who's very resistant to spell sniping (though not very resistant to artillery fire).
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I think in Invaders, the KoS is best as a distraction Carnifex. Skin + Hand+ Gryph-Feather means it's pretty damn hard to kill unless the opponents have some sort of sniper lineup, which is one of the things I think Slaanesh will struggle with anyway, what with poor ranged and poor access to units with Fly. Stick it on 1-3 wound models with a poor saves or send it chasing enemy support heroes and it'll stay up, wasting enemy focus for a while. On a separate note, how do you guys think a Slaaneshi army should be build in order to take on all comers? Slaanesh is an army that's naturally excellent against elite and character-focused armies because of how depravity works, but how do you cover your other bases? I'm seeing problems dealing with: 1) Horde armies 2) Armies with a lot of damage nullification, i.e. FNP 3) Heroes with bubble wrap, especially in horde armies 4) Sniper armies (i.e. Stormcast, Seraphon, possible KO if they get an update, Asgorh, Skyre) The armies that I suspect Slaanesh will struggle against most are: GHoN, DoK, and Nurgle (ones with a Daemon focus), and possibly Skyre. Any opinions on if this'll be an issue, and if so, how do you build a list around it that can still take advantage of Slaanesh's strengths?
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It will. From https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Rulesheets/ENG_AoSSW_Rules_booklet_web.pdf Since these are the only 2 to be singled out, these are the only 2 things affected by the mount rules.
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You'll probably want a Pretenders army at 1k, since Invaders will be too cluttered on a 4x4 board and you don't have enough points/space to really get the most out of Godseekers. So: Heralds on Exalted Chariots generate around 5-10 DP in attacks per combat each against multi wound models. Unfortunately, having looked over the phrasing of Feast of Depravities, mortal wounds generated by the Chariot Charge or the Hellflayer start-of-combat 4+ ability do not generate depravity points, as they are neither a spell nor an attack. That said, 15-20 DP in the first fighting combat phase nets you an Infernal Enrapturess if that tickles your fancy, and if all 3 survive until the second combat phase and fight again (assuming they manage to generate the same amount again), you can summon a KoS or 30 Daemonettes (maybe even 40 if you get lucky with the Fane roll!), and this should happen by turn 2 if you're going second. If you're going first, just summon another Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot. Alternatively, you can pack the following if you want a KoS: The Masque is excellent at tying up support heroes, especially since they tend to be slower and have poor damage output with attacks. The KoS is an incredible hero killer with Silverslash (4 attacks on 3+/3+/-2/[up to 5]? Yes please!) and Strongest Alone, and your two Seeker Chariots can (almost) keep up with it and act as a screen... and also generate dp while they're at it.
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In my opinion, the best things to summon are: The Enrapturess near the Fane (when your front lines are pretty cluttered, as they probably are), or the Exalted Chariot (In fact, you can probably summon it behind enemy lines if your already very mobile army can get a surround on the enemy). Both of these generate a fair number of points, aren't that expensive (12 and 18 respectively), and are probably the best in their roles. The KoS is, quite frankly, not very points efficient without artefacts/traits.
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Took me a few hours to do that, type it up, and then do damage charts to figure out which units generate the most depravity points for the fewest roster points. Hardest part was figuring out how to calculate rend in a chart ><
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So some lineups I've thought of: Invaders List I'll probably be running (mostly because I have exactly 2 Exalted Chariots and 50 Daemonettes and the rest of the models I either have [3 Infernal Enrapturesses!] I've already preordered). If the KoS kills a model, they heal 2D3 (Skintaker + Hand), and if they kill a hero/monster, they heal D3+D6. An interesting Godseekers army focused on spamming chariots.... and loads more chariots. If there's a turn where all 4 Exalted chariots + the KoS charge, you'll generate something like 30-50 (depending on enemy saves) depravity points on average that turn... letting you summon more exalted chariots the next turn... etc. etc. the Epitome can drop the Cogs (82.6% chance to cast compared to the usual 58.3%) for a grand total of +3 to charge, which gives your summons 72.2% chance to charge 9" and 58.3% chance to charge 10" (which should be about as far as you should want to summon). You also can drop the Shackles behind the enemy lines to block their escape path. Sadly, you can't pick a mount weapon to attach the Sword of Judgement. However, your General becomes ridiculously good at hunting down big and is unable to fail their retreat/charge (5" minimum with the Cogs up!), and your KoS serves as the small/footslogger hero hunter with the Bindings. For Pretenders... I'm not exactly sure how to build a list. Probably the following?
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Doing some number crunching... The best damage output per points, spells notwithstanding, are the chariots, with the Exalted Chariot having far and away the best point efficiency for damage output. The Enrapturesses (assuming no melee) have by far the worst, and the KoS are somewhere in the middle. I have no energy to add all the calculations for spells, but I'd think the ideal hero composition is probably an Enrapturess sitting on the Fane, a KoS as general and 4 Heralds on Exalteds if you want to make a summoning focused army. Grab the Sybarites Battalion if you're Invaders and that puts you at 1500, which lets you comfortably grab 30 Daemonettes + 2 groups of 5 Hellstriders for your battleline to round off at 2k. Alternatively, drop 2 Exalteds, pick up Syll'Esske and a Contorted Epitome for that sweet command ability and disruption and swap out for (30+10+10) Daemonettes and a 20 point endless spell. Shackles might do the trick: throw it down at the back of the enemy lines once your Epitome has moved up and make retreating difficult for them. I'm not sure how I'd approach making a Pretenders army, though.
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Last few pages have had loads of discussion, but from what I'm seeing... Either Pretenders or Invaders with a heavy focus on Daemonettes is probably going to work out best, depending on how good Syll'Esske turns out to be in play (because of how they synergise with the Invaders). Godseekers are likely to be strongest with chariots, since chariots can retreat/charge to generate depravity points, and chariots are battleline in Godseekers. You definitely want at least 1 KoS and at least 1 Enrapturesses, though personally I'd get 2-3 (the extras for summoning), and even without Godseekers you want a Herald on a chariot of some kind, probably just on a normal Seeker Chariot. For now, I'd say pick up 20-60 Daemonettes, try and find a way to build Hellstriders without using that godawful model they have on sale (convert something and stick them on your seeker mounts?) since Hellstriders are more flexible and probably more cost effective than Seekers (due to their better save, even if they do slightly less damage). I'm also not really seeing the appeal of the Endless Spells (though the Mirror is a fantastic zoning tool and psychological weapon), but the Fane is an absolute must.
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According to the stream a few days ago, Exalted KoS are getting a Warscroll update, so they're staying on top. Fluffwise, I don't see why there would be any changes in that area?
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Math on the Mirror: Note that this is per hero within 6".
