Liquidsteel

20 Grave Guard with Mannfreds Command Ability killed an Archaon in the final game of 2.0 for me. Granted he would now have +1 save. So I think they'd need to have an extra attack from somewhere also. Archaons base is massive, so you can probably make it difficult for him to redeploy if needed. Or pop out of the grave and attempt the long bomb.

Correct it's just combat phase.

In the future is very vague. In 3 years with a new tome, maybe some new heroes plus new sculpts for existing units at the same time as a FEC update? Possibly.

Damage wise, I've found both Mannfred and the Vengorian to be quite poor. Maybe not poor exactly, but certainly Mediocre. Very swingy. Even having both in Mannfred's Aura, you aren't always getting that much damage through, primarily because of save stacking. Having most of the damage on rend -1 really means rend 0 in this edition. I think both definitely play very well as support pieces as long as you have enough other stuff on the board, which this kind of list definitely does. Mannfred's shenanigans can put him in a position to threaten the opponent at every turn, for example positioning him to teleport in the opponents turn and threaten a support piece or important unit on the next. Aside from the horde style, I have heard very good things about lists with 20-25 Blood Knights plus a VLoZD in Kastelai, it plays similar to the old Eel Spam of IDK, apparently. You can fit Mannfred plus 2 x 3 fell bats in to that and then you're mashing 2/2/-1/3 damage blood knights units in to things.

Yep I've almost got 30 ready to go and will include them in my next list, which I'm currently building Nagash for. Gonna take lifeswarm as well and go all in on keeping them alive.

My conclusion in simple terms is roll for however many are still dead. In longer terms, the final clause says for your to roll a dice for each model that was slain, and on a 4+, THAT model may stand up. As opposed to roll a dice for each model that has been slain, and add that many 4+ back to the unit. So technically each model can only stand up once, and every time you roll a dice it is assigned to a specific model.

My money's on Maggotkin.

Yeah I think that's probably better, best you can do is run both lists and see how you feel. I've played around 5 or 6 games with Mannfred now, and he definitely feels like more of a support piece, potentially assassinating small support heroes or an MSU chaff unit then teleporting away to buff your main forces when the opponent tries to deal with him. Grimghasts are interesting, they do still benefit from Nagash's command ability which is great, and give the list some nice speed. 4+ unrendable save, rerolling 1s is still quite tanky, though they lose Deathless Minions having been relegated to Allies. My list is very similar to this, but with 20 Grave Guard instead of Grimghast, Emerald Lifeswarm instead of Gravetide, and 2 x 20 zombies instead of the Skellies and Wolves. Loses a lot of speed compared to yours though. Running it as Legion of Night, Necromancer taking Morbegh's Claw to put Nagash on +5 at top bracket.

A necromancer, to provide the 30 block of skellies with extra chances of standing back up again, as well as spell portal, to give Nagash extra range on Hand of Dust. You'd have to drop the Blood Knights plus wiggle around e.g. wolves for zombies to achieve that though, then at that point what is Mannfred really providing? He's a great force multiplier but his actual damage isn't great. Worth considering if you need him.

Teams is not 2v2 on the board. It's 1v1 but you have 3 or 4 games played at the same time, and you draft the match ups.

Not in this case, because both effects are on unmodified dice. Both effects trigger off the same dice roll, the new core rules only allow one effect to trigger. The player rolling the dice chooses. If the lantern was reroll 6s then it would apply first.

As @Christopher Rowe says, the unit has to be a monster at the point of picking the tactic.

I like the concept of removing unbinds, and just letting magic do its thing. Make casts harder across the board if needed, and provide bonuses as appropriate to fit the fluff/balance. God tier casters like Nagash and Teclis can be given additional power in casting/effectiveness of spells if needed. Unfortunately with the release of the Mouth of Mork, it's clear unbinding is here to stay til at least 4.0.

I don't think so, both apply to the unmodified roll, and both are triggered by the 6 to hit. If the lantern was re-roll 6s to hit, then it would take precedence, I believe, same as the Witherstave for Nurgle.

I don't think this Lantern works, as per new Core Rules on Triggered Effects, only one effect can apply and it is up to the person rolling the dice to decide which applies. Because both rules apply to Unmodified dice, the 6 to do a Mortal overrules the need to reroll.

Yeah it's all still to be tested, opponent may not deploy on the line at 18" or indeed at 22" deployment and sit back. Or they may be Nurgle and take first turn and push up to the middle, rendering the rerolls useless as all units will have their prime choice of targets. If the Portal/Lycancurse combo fails, then the opponent will also be free to redeploy and/or unleash hell. Maybe a 5" charge gets you in, but an 8" charge let's you position such that you keep out of 9" of Unleash Hell. I took Flaming Weapon on the VLoZD but that was when I was planning to take Sangsyron, have since switched to Amulet so maybe Pinions is indeed better, it's what he had in 2.0. Lots of conditionals.

Yeah the thought was that there will potentially be 4 units attempting charges turn 1 (VLoZD, Radukar, Blood Knights and possibly Grave Guard), and you can't issue the same Command more than once per phase, which this gets around as it's a Trait. Even with Pack Alpha, my interpretation is that the Command has still be Used, so you can't do one for free and then one regular. The others are also great for sure, though.

Had a busy week of painting, finally managed to get 40 Zombies done, which means I can stop proxying Ghouls. Going to give Vyrkos a first go, using a bunch of units I haven't tried yet in 3rd Edition. Here's the list, first using VLoZD, Bella, Mannfred and the Blood Knights in 3.0. It's simple enough, Bella aims to cast Lycancurse through the Portal to prevent multiple units from using Redeploy and Unleash Hell. VLoZD, Radukar and Blood Knights push forward, with the re-roll charges good chance to get them stuck in turn 1. Grave Guard can either try to join the party OR pop up behind a screen along with Bella to hold down an objective.

Something I wanted to mention, because I didn't spot it straight away so maybe someone else hasn't realised either, is that Blood Knights can still retreat and charge regardless of the wounds characteristic of the enemy unit, it's simply the "counts as flying" and Mortal Wounds on passing over that requires 3 wounds or less.

It looks fine to me. Double Dragon, Blood Knights and Fell Bats are what I've been toying with in Warscroll Builder How would you feel about swapping one unit of zombies for some dire wolves? You have the points spare. Or 1 unit of zombies and fell bats and a 4th unit of blood knights. As you are gives a good chance for the Triumph.

I believe this is counted as a Modifed roll so wouldn't work, though two destiny dice could be used as those are counted as unmodified. Ultimately I'm of the opinion that the current model for how magic is played out in this game isn't the best, so keen to hear ideas.

Care to elaborate why? It was just an idea that popped in to my head whilst reading the thread. I think making Magic more consistent would be better for everyone, the ones that already dominate it likely wouldn't be effected as much as it's already so easy for them anyway, but would feel good in cases where your army has 1-2 spells and you're against Teclis or Kroak, rolling that double and forcing it through, as opposed to have every spell unbound every phase.

Also they have brought in miscasts now, perhaps they could allow that a roll of a double, providing it meets the casting value, is an auto-cast that cannot be unbound. E.g. CV 7, roll 4/4=8 and opponent cannot attempt to unbind it, but can still negate the effects if he has such an ability.

Where did this take place? The list appears to be illegal? Vhordrai can't take Flaming Weapon due to being Unique, and without Warlord or Command Entourage Battalions the second Cursed Mutation is questionable, as you can only pick one Unique Enhancement initially, right>

I think unbind range should be reduced to 18". We now have a much smaller board to play with, it's time to let people actually play and enjoy the magic side of their armies.