Mutton

Personally, I'd remove battalions from the game entirely. It's one of those list building things that isn't fun, wastes time, and confuses new players to no end. It's extra work for little-to-no gain. Roll off to determine who goes first like in the core rules. This whole drop system is and has always been stupid. Also, let everyone have 2 artifacts because it's fun.

I think there will once again be one or two ideas in here that everyone will want to keep playing with, but as a whole, it's too many rules. This game needs to be simpler. It doesn't need a basketful of new things to remember every 6 months. I say this as someone who has been diligently trying to recruit people into AoS since 3.0. The turnover has been disappointing in the long run--players telling me the game is too tiring/complicated to play. And that's me only teaching people the core rules.

Ah yes, the classic new member with 1 post to their account with a bevy of rumors collated from "friend."

I would indeed also be pissed if CoS got new Ogre models before Mawtribes. Hugely, hugely annoyed.

Don't want to be a negative Nancy, but after playing a handful of games with the new book, my opinion is that Gutbusters still received the short end of the stick, despite their buffs. I'm speaking from a melee-oriented, non-Underguts skew perspective. Gluttons and Ironguts are far too expensive in points. They fall like leaves in the wind to anything that attacks them, and if they're not in combat when they take casualties, you run a real risk of models fleeing en masse--devastating to such a low model count army. While their potential damage is impressive, they still suffer in this edition of save stacking. Units can so easily get +1 or +2 to their save that even the new Rend -1 to Gluttons isn't good enough in many engagements. You'll run into plenty of situations where a unit of Gluttons will charge in and end up doing 2-6 damage because the enemy was still rolling a 3+ or better save (and then there are wards to consider). I have yet to enjoy a combat where the Gluttons did the work they should, they always underperform. Even in situations where they do well on the assault and kill maybe half of the enemy; they inevitably get hit back and lose half of their own unit--when they were the ones that charged! While Ironguts will do better with their -2 rend and fight twice ability, the fact that there are only 4 of them on a 4+ save means they rarely get into combat before being blasted into oblivion. And again, if anything counter charges them, they're dead without question. If they survive getting to the front lines, they always survive precisely one combat phase before being removed. Tyrants, while much tougher, are pretty useless. They still do no damage (half of my combats they quite literally do 0). I'm considering removing him from the list because he just does nothing noteworthy. Even as a Trophy Rack wielder, the artifact itself isn't amazing, most heroes are hard to reach in the backline and monsters usually wipe out your guys before they can act. The book was once again cursed with a sub-par selection of Command Traits and Artifacts to choose from. Let's not even discuss Maneaters. They're so bad. Make them 120 or something and maybe we'll talk. While I don't run full shooting lists, I've tried out Leadbelchers piecemeal. They still suck outside of Underguts, the marginal bonus attacks mean nothing when they're hitting on 4+s. You wouldn't take them unless you're in Underguts or can't afford anything else. The most annoying thing is that there's still no real reason to play Gutbusters over Beastclaw Raiders again. Stonehorn are still the best thing in the book by far. Think about the fact that 2 units of Gluttons (12 dudes) costs 530 points......almost 100 points more than a Frostlord on Stonehorns. Are 12 Gluttons better than a Stonehorn? HAHAHA, absolutely not. TLDR: Gutbusters still underperform in the current game. They received slightly better warscrolls, but also premium points price tags. Drop Gluttons and Ironguts back to around 200, Drop the Tyrant to 120 or something, or rewrite his scroll to have real attacks.

I don't know what's "all". I've watched several games, one in person, of Ogre gunline armies in action and the Ogre player lost every time. Their units are paper and don't have much presence. Their attacks are still pretty random. But yeah, definitely too early to tell. The issue with ranged unit spam in general is that power projection beats out anything else. But because armies only get a single shooting phase on their turn, the priority roll becomes the lynchpin of their success. Ranged focused armies often live and die by a single die roll; they either wipe you out by turn 3 or get decimated.

They would have to be a very, very good standalone unit if they had no synergies with Gloomspite keyworded stuff.

Uhh...I think you have that reversed. All 5% of Gitz players who actually play spiders wanted new spider riders. I for one think the wolf riders are sick, and that underworlds warband is hilarious. New beefy beastlord. Tons of battletomes on the horizon. Great preview from my point of view.

I'm going to guess...A Loonboss on squig Underworlds warband and a new Madcap shaman sculpt included in another vs. box.

They and BoC at least deserve a tome acknowledgement.

SURELY this new version is a typo. Please let it be an Errata. On average, the current warscroll does 2-3 damage per combat. We can aspire to more than that for supposedly one of the most terrifying entities in the realms.

Oh man, I didn't realize he didn't get the talons in addition. I just assumed because it makes sense. Holy hell the DP sucks.

No save stacking. No battletome strategies/tactics. Bonds of Battle codified as a base rule for infantry. First battle round priority determined by a roll-off (like in the core rules).

You know the Warhammer Community people have no idea right? They rarely have any more information than we do.

Bloodstoker ally.

They still got free stuff so I'm sure they'll survive.

I just can't believe they had two attempts to make Maneaters playable and squandered both of them. I guess maybe if they were like, 140 points?

Does anyone else think Ironguts at 270 is extreme? At that price, even with their warscroll improvements, I think they might be a pass. It's just way too expensive for 16 wounds on a 4+ save. A unit that's already a huge target for opponents. I made this point in the Rumor Thread, but the new Chaos Chosen are 240 points and twice as powerful/resilient as Ironguts.

I think there are a lot of cool things in the Mawtribes book (Meatfist boys here we come), but also a lot of highly questionable decisions. There are rules in this book that I read and say "Who the hell thought this would be useful in any capacity?" Maneaters are still bad--having 12 wounds with a 5+ save was awful last edition and still worse in this one, and they're pointed like some kind of elite unit. The Tyrant still hits like a wet noodle and they took his awesome CA away...I don't know who in their design studio refuses to give Tyrants more/better attacks, but they can go to hell. Also, why the hell are Ironguts 270 points?! Even the new Chaos Chosen, patently better versions of the Heavy Infantry archtype, are 240. I think we'll definitely be seeing some needed points drops in the future for Mawtribes. I'm still looking forward to trying them out. I think it'll be very similar, but with even less models on the board and potentially higher damage output. We'll see if the changes were enough to get them out of the 40% bracket.

The model releases for Destruction this edition have been incredibly lackluster. As much as I love my Ogres, another Hunter model elicits nothing but disappointment from me and almost certainly won't be getting it. Like, if you're going to release a new hero model for Ogres, there are at least THREE OTHER sculpts you could've reinvented.

Ogres really getting sandbagged with the articles.

Are there leaks you'd like to share?

The grand 2022 AoS finale. Give me my Ogres.

I have never hated 40k more than this moment.

Could be a Dark Elf beast tamer-themed warband.