Boggler

WoW! Ok. That's what I get for getting my info from 1d4chan I guess: Ironjawz Waaagh! You can use this command ability once per battle at the start of your charge phase if your army has IRONJAWZ general until the end of that turn add 1 to all charge rolls for friendly IRONJAWZ units and improve rend for all melee weapons of IRONJAWZ units by 1. This doesn't really change my CP usage. Every turn MD and IP in an 18" bubble.

This. Every turn I think about the 18" bubble to get the 3 units I want to MD and IP. If I am lucky I will have a 3rd CP to spend on something else like Waaaaagh, or maybe if I am more lucky something Aelfie like Redeploy.

I just went 2-1 in a local tournament. Well, not local for me. I drove 3 hours from Montreal to Quebec City and back to play! Here are my thoughts. I was robbed of a 3-0 and the title. I am of the opinion that the MBMK can't issue AAA and AAD 3 times and I will play it this way until I get a FAQ, with that I could see multiple instances of when giving 3 orders of AAA or AAD would have been crazy good and maybe OP good. 3 units Inspiring Presence was MVP because Orruks leadership sucks now, big time sucks. With the right matchups you can go 4-1 with some skill. 5-0 will be hard. I am not sure how to get the output to take down Gargants. Get'Em on a 3+ much love. Ardboys are now wet noodle smackers. I will probably replace a unit of 10 with Morgog's and Ironskulls. They did their job, but those Underworlds specialists will do it better. Here was my list. Skilled Leader rolled me zero CP's in all my games. I didn't have any use for Mega Bossy or Waaaaghiest whatever either as I never failed a charge.. 1970pts gave me the triumph in every game, which I forgot to use. Did I mention I was robbed, I meant I blew it with my own stupidity! Game 1 vs Lumineth - Feral Foray - 30 Sentinels, Teclis He castled, I castled. I give him. T1. I have no Wizard so he does whatever magic he wants. Portal, half move on MBMK, Voice -2 bravery, ugh. Thank you Inspiring Presence MBMK! I escape the turn only losing a unit of 3 pigs. My T1 I move up my castle to the middle. My 6 GG's take out the Windchargers. I win prio and its game over. Best day ever for the MBMK, Mighty Destroyers for the 3 GG's and the Brutes. I used Fast Un (still on half move debuff) and then moved to make it 18" across the board and snuck in to a corner of the Sentinels. Waaaagh used. The MBMK took 9 wounds going in to the Sentinels and then did enough damage to kill 40 of them. The other Orcs smashed their targets. There was only Teclis left at the end of the turn. In his turn Teclis did 13 MW's from Searing but I had MBMK Inspiring Presence. Ferrocious Advance -> Conquer -> Broken Ranks Game Two vs Beastclaw Raiders - First Blood I felt really good going in to this matchup. I had just used speed to dismantle a very tough Lumineth list and I knew that I was faster than BCR and that they had no shooting or spells to worry about. I deployed to threaten him T1 and he deployed conservatively so this wouldn't happen. I had prio and took first turn. I ran a unit of Ardboys over to one objective as bait. His turn he took the bait and moved his army up. I used MD to move up 6 GG's and the two 3 GG's and the MBMK in to charge range, like 3" charges. He spiked a 6 on his redeploy for one of his Frostlord on Stonehorn. Lucky I made my 3+ Get'Em wioth the 6 GG's. Waaaaaagh turn, everything smashed in to combat. 6 GG's with MD vs the Frostlord. 3GG with MD vs a Stonehorn Beastriders. MBMK and 3 GG's vs another Stonehorn. The MBMK went first and took out the Beastriders, Smashing and Bashing in to the 6 GG's who left the Frostlorf on 1 wound!. Noooooooo! That's game. The Beastriders did 8 damage to the unit of 3 GG's who fought back and left them on 2 wounds! OMG! The other 3 GG's piled in to another Frostlord and did 4-5 damage but they lost a pig in return. I was in shock. The perfect setup failed because of 1 wound! Oh well. This is where if I could use AAA on 3 units it would have been amazing. The rest of the game played out closely and the Frostlord healed back up to 4 wounds and then I brought him back down to 1 again... The Ten Brutes did eventually charge his general Frostlord but they completely failed to do anything. In return he did something like 24 damage to them and they were gone. lol! In the end I lost a close game but I really felt it shouldn't have been close at all. I had set up my turn perfectly and used Waaaagh to maximum benefit. Oh well. Did I mention the 1 wound part. zzz Aggressive Expansion -> Ferrocious Adv - > Conquer - > Broken Ranks Fail This loss was painfull. as the winner went on to play this list: Which I felt that I matched up well against. The Brutes ability vs pinks is so good and another reason I will probably drop 10 Ardboys for 5 Brutes sometime. Game Three vs Sylvaneth - The Vice - Damn I hate this deployment Long deploy. He put the Warsong in the back corner. We are 24" apart. He has his Tree Revenants to screen. I gave him first turn because I knew I could peel his screens with my 2+ mortals and somehow smash in to the Kurnoths. I can't do much about the Warsong and I don't want a piece of either Durthu or Alarielle. The flat 6 damage has killed many a pig! He was a smart player, he did his Ferrocious Advance on Durthu Alarielle and the wizard lady he used the monster spell on to get a bonus point. I was like ok. ummmm, game on! He did his hero phase in French and I had no idea what was going on or what the spells were. The joke is on him because I had no Wizard to dispell so it made it much easier, I just listened for "mortals" and rolled my dice. I did Ferrocious -> Broken -> Conquer -> Savage T2 I charged the 6 GG's and some Ardboys into his zone to kill chaff and get in the way while taking his objective. T3 I charged the Brutes in to take his objective on the other side. At this point I was up on points and I was enjoying just getting in his way and running from Durthu and Alarrielle, he didn't have much else left. End of turn 4 it was 18-14 for me. He won the prio and could only get 3pts. It was an 18-17 win. I did Ferrocious - > Broken -> Conquer -> Savage (Here is where I felt I made a mistake. I should have done Monstrous Takeover and kept Savage for T5. I had 2 units of 3 GG's that were roaming the board.) T5 I had 2 GG's and a warchanter left meaning I didn't give up Hold the Line. He had Durthu, Alarrielle and that Warsong who had like 10+ to cast at that point. Did I mention that I failed to kill the Frostlord on Stonehorn and left him on 1 wound twice in my previous game? Oh well. He went on to win the event. Three great games. All three completely different. I am really happy with how the army performed and I am excited for the FAQ. Sadly, I don't see myself playing these guys much after this. I spent a huge chunk of the last two lockdowns hobbying an Ossiarch Bonereapers army. Honestly I have 3k pts painted and I have never played them! If you see me in the Death forums say "Hi" Thank for you much for reading this mess of words. Play games. Read! Experiment!

Thanks for the love. To add to my post above. My Tactics were: Ferocious Advance - Success! Monstrous Takeover - Success! Broken Ranks - Success! Savage Spearhead - Success! Conquest - Fail! Those are the five tactics that I would normally try and complete. They seem the easiest to me and can be done in any order. Bring it Down can replace any of these situationally of course! Same with Slay the Warlord. We are not really in a bad place, just different tactics must be used, and more minis need to be purchased and assembled and then painted... Waaaagh!!!

I just finished a 2k game vs Stormcast. He had 30 libs, 4 Fulmns, 6 Longstike, Gardus, The mission was The Vice. I had planned on going with my first list: but then at the last second decided to go with: Hindsight 20/20. I wished that I had those exta smaller units to screen the backfield though its pretty uncommon for the backfield to be so big as it is in The Vice. I lost the game 17-15. I could have totally won if I played better. Here are some thoughts: Stormcast are buffed now. WoW Liberators. 4+ save becomes 3+ vs Ardboys, GL with that. I can't kill you. You can't kill me, except if I kill you during Waaagh then you fight back and kill me and or splash me with Mortals when you die. Ardboyz Bravery was a huge problem. I rolled a 5/6 a few times and lost a guy or two more than once. I also used Inspiring Presence a few times! Deployment for The Vice was a bit of a standoff. I got to choose who went first. We both Castled up. I kept the 2 units of 3 pigs in the back to get the objective. Everything else was outside 36" of his Longstrikes. I gave him first turn. He did nothing but move forward his screens and run the longstrikes up. In my turn, I moved some units around so that I could possibly MD a few units to charge in next turn. the two units of 3 pigs took both flanks and threatened the longstrikes. I won the roll for T2, gave him the turn. He moved up some more with the screens but didn't realize how far 18" was. The pigs could move around the side of one screen and hit the Fulms if I wanted. They had to survive that Unleash Hell though... 4 4+ D3 mortals is so good. He used Gardus to shoot the Longstrikes in the Hero Phase at the unit of 6 pigs killing two of them. Then his Longstrikes shot at the 3 pigs threatening them. He did 14 wounds leave the boss on 1 wound, lol, he will be super usefull later. In my T2 I decided that it was now or never for the Waaaagh. He had a lot of Liberators to get through but I was confident that I could get the 3 pigs and both units of 10 Ardboys into combat. I was successful. The lone GG charged into the Fulms, eating the Unleash Hell. He died well, the other 3 smashed into the Fulms doing 3 mortals, which became 1 mortal after Gardus 5+ ignore. After combat the 3 GG were only able to kill 1 Fulm. Even with AAA. Fulms 3+ save became a 2+ with AAD then the waaagh made it a 4+. Uggghhh. The Gardus 5+ ignore lol... The Fulms and another screening unit of Libs killed two pigs, the last pig fled to battleshock. The 20 Ardboys got about 18 into 1" range and managed to kill only 1 Liberator total. I rolled a lot of dice to make that happen. I would prefer to roll less dice next time and actually kill something but if this is their new roll then I will have to learn to live with it. Wow. The Ardboys did bad. Or maybe they did good because they were still in their combat going in to T4/5 when he killed the last of them. I guess they are now a tarpit? Ugh, I remember the days when they had output! T3 He won the rolloff and decided to kill my MBMK. He tele'd the Fulms near the MBMK, which he can do on a 3+ then they can move in the MV phase. My MBMK made his 5 on Redeploy making it an 8 charge. The damage came from shooting, the MBMK took 4 mortals and failed 7/8 4+ saves taking 18 wounds from the Longstrikes. Lucky I made 6 5+'s with the only Artifact you'll ever need but the MBMK was crippled and I was shocked at the damage. At least he did 5 mortals to a Fulm at the end of the Charge phase! killing one and leaving only two left. The MBMK died, but only just barely like I need 2/3 5+ saves on the final dice, lol! The other combats were the Ardboys vs the Liberators. OMG lots of dice! OMG not much going on! At least one unit of Ardboys even had the Warchanter helping buff them but those saves and the lack of rend made for some sad faces. In my turn I buffed up the 10 man Brutes, these guys could easily get in to the Fulms. The 4 pig unit went in to his backfield to charge the Longstrikes. I was feeling good. All ten Brutes made it in to combat with the Fulms. They only killed one. One Fulm. Ten +1 dam 2" -2 rend Brutes did 6 wounds to a Fulm, lol... The 4 pigs smashed in to the Longstrikes doing 4 mortals, and killing two guys! Then they got Unleashed on and two died, the remaining two did absolutely nothing to the Longstrikes, not even a wound, then they got attack by some Libs and I lost another pig. The last one flew to BS... Wow. I was like wtf really, that happened? The beginning of the turn I was so confident that I would kill both of his hammers... I killed none of them... with my two hammers... bad luck I guess. The rest of the game was just a formality. I still scored some and him some. The Ardboys finally died. The Brutes lived until the end and wound up running asway so he couldn't get my Hold the Line pts. What a game! The only time I was ever able to kill a whole unit and set off Smashing and Bashing was when a Warchanter decided to charge a unit of 3 Aetherwings. In every other situation I just bounced off the armor. Thanks for reading. Its not the same army. Its go tricks and is super fast. Losing the MBMK was a big shock for me but I'll do better next time.

Here is the list I am running tomorrow to practice for my weekend tournament. The command trait can be anything really. Mission is The Vice. Opponent is Stormcast. It could be 12 drop. Could be Command for the CP and Artefact. Could be Hunters... and here is the other list I am running. Its two drop and relies on two 10 man units of Ardboys to hold onto some positions. The GG's do their thing. Sadly, I only have one MBMK. I could go with more GG's but I want to try them in MSU units of 3.

I am seeing a lot of lists that are taking the: Beast-skewer Killbow (130) even in multiples of two. What are you thinking that this unit will do? What matchups will it do well against? Why are you taking it?

I think this is the combo that needs to be talked about the most. If you are taking an MBMK as your General (which you are). He is getting the Amulet of Destiny. No question. You can switch his Command Trait if you want but rerolling charges on the Waaagh turn is pretty powerful and saves those CP's for other stuff. I'll only be running one MBMK so his setup is pretty standard. (style pts for the OP MBMK Touched Wizard, more pts for Prized Sorcery) Fast Un might get a FAQ but its pretty straightforward. Move -> Mighty Destroyers Charge -> Retreat -> Pile In Move -> MD Move -> Move ->Charge - Uhhh, what? 36" Move? Take that Aetheric Navigator! 18" move still good! In 3.0 you need to get where you need to go to for those extra VP's Hand of Gork value has plummeted. Losing all the charge bonus's really hurts the 9" setup. Ardboys used to be the go to unit for this reason and now its not even likely that you will cast the spell let alone make the charge after.

Nitty gritty? Complaining? I'm just pre-emptively upset at the number of 4+ Heroic Leadership rolls I am going to fail on my MBMK. Those CP's drive the army.

The loss of batalions in 3.0 is super impactful The loss of the best 1 drop 480pts spent on batalions list is super impactful Seriously. Like others have said. We had options before. People love this army and played a huge variety of lists all throughout 2.0 I'm guessing that Seraphon and every other army will eventually lose all their CP regen on all their heroes. Bonuses to cast and or on Artefacts will be rare when the new books start releasing.

I have a lot to catch up reading in this thread. Can I use the Covered in Mud Trick on a unit that I Deepstrike with the command trait? The unit would deepstrike and could not be the target of unleash hell? I am not sure how the interaction goes.

Ya! I'm dumb and didn't read the total so I though it was over 25 pts! Again, I didn't think I would be coming out of this book needing both more Brutes and more GG's. Not to mention my lack of interest in getting another MBMK too! For the money needed to round out my collection I would be 1/3 of the way towards completing an army in an actual S tier faction. Seriously. I have 50 Ardboys. The max I could ever use is 30. 1 MBMK, 1 Warboss, 15 Brutes, 5 dual, 10 2HW 18GG's - magnetized All painted. Lots of conversions etc, Not painted in Bloodtoofs colours so I guess I can't use them as Bloodtoofs in an official GW tournament or in their stores. lol... The start collecting box really starts to lose value after the 3rd. I wonder why they didn't make Ardboys 160pts for 10. Would that make them too strong? Would 20 Ardboys for 320pts and ONE reinforcement point be too strong?

I think you're at 2025 pts. Can you sub the Ardboys for Ironskulls and Morgok's to fit them in?

Great question. I haven't taken a look at anything Stormcast yet. Did they completely nerf everything shooting in their tome? If they did then maybe it is an indication that GW will significantly tone down shooting in 3.0

I really didn't think that I'd need another 6 GG's after this book came out... I went hard in to Brutes this past Summer LOL. To round out my army a bit more. I have 18 GG's, do I really need another 6? probably? I had 5 Brutes with Choppas, then I just made another 10 with 2HW I am also interested in 2 x 15 Ardboys. Can the Megaboss use Rally on both? I haven't seen the exact wording of the warscroll yet.

Here is a one drop, Alpha Strike list. I am sure you guys have played around with these combos of units. I'm not yet sold on the Traits. Amulet for the MBMK? MBMK 1 480 Warchanter 1 115 Warchanter 1 115 GG's 3 150 GG's 3 150 Reinforced GG's 3 150 GG's 3 150 Reinforced Brutes 5 160 Gore Hackas Brutes 5 160 Reinfoced Ardboyz 5 85 Ardboys 5 85 Reinforced Brutes 5 160 Brute Hackas 1960 Reinforcement points really hurt Ardboys Rally spam. I'm sure I will pass the DPS check. Both weapons on the GG's are good options. Jagged Gore Hackas have better reach and you can attack units that are 5" behind a screen, if you manage to smash through the screen.

Are Morgok's Krushas now the best objective campers in the game?

I would really like to fast forward in to the future and get all the battlestomes out so that we can see exactly what GW wants us to do. As it stands, there is no 5-0 Ironjawz list. 4-1 is going to be a tough dps check. Did the Weirdnob tax go down? Points drops for Ardboys, GG's, Warchanter, Megaboss? The official MBMK 4+ save is true. +1 save with a rip toof. Ironclad gone. Mount traits are bleh.

Yes. It is a 63% chance to do no damage vs the best possible target in the game. It is a 72% chance if it is the targets "best day ever". I'm sorry. That is complete trash. Not even worth 100pts. Sure. 17% chance to plunk off 12 MW's on a Gargant is great and all but seriously. Its just not reliable and as Mutton says. worthless against anything else. From a narrative perspective these are great. The models are super cool and I can't wait to get at least one, and probably two.

What could you possibly target that would make the Killbow worth more than 50 pts? Here is the damage vs a Gargant. Who will obviously use AAD. http://tools.druchii.net/graph.php?q=r:235:1:12:m000&s= Here are the MW's http://tools.druchii.net/graph.php?q=r:610:1:12:m000

The final countdown begins. Maybe the lower bravery points to a MB ability like the Kruleboyz one that only allows one model to flee? It might be how people think that taking the foot MB would make him relevant again? He can keep his 3+ for narrative Riptoof purposes of course.

I imagine him opening the box full of excitement then going a full 180 of emotion in to the biggest disappointment of his GW career. It would have made for a great video. The above quote is the still in full effect.

I think he is asking the source. Things don't look good for the Ironjawz... MBMK still has utility with 12" move and fly. Obviously due to Mighty Destroyers. I don't think I would ever take even one Gnashtoof. I'd use the points saved on more Brutes! and more GG's until we see their new instructions that make them 4a / 4 / 3 / - / 1... We'll have to see what is going on with the faction when the book comes out.

So, the Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof has a shield so he has a 3+ save. Right? Would your MBMK trade half their attacks for a 3+?

One hell of a deal for sure. I saw this at work. Couldn't reply! Hopefully not a scam as it is a too good to be true kind of deal.