Karragon

Indeed, but my point was more that this isn't an Ironjawz or Kharadron army with no wizard's that you'll roll over with magic

Interesting suggestion, magic. I'm playing at Throne of Skulls this weekend and came up against a Khorne player yesterday (old book). I've got 3 wizards and cogs in my list that I often slow down time with. The khorne player denied all but 1 of my spells that game

Given the way the Allegiance ability and that is worded I'd say both yes and no. The allegiance ability limited is worded against "the Celestial Realm" not against using itself. As in, skyborne slayers count towards the allegiance limit but the allegiance limit doesn't effect skyborne slayers. So you could put 3 units on the table, 3 in the Celestial Realm and then the Skyborne in the Celestial realms. You couldn't though put the Skyborne in the Celestial realm then 3 on the table and 3 in the Celestial Realm. That's my interpretation at least.

Dracolines on the charge can be beyond terrifying. With pride leader, empower and celestial blades plus the LAoCDs CA you get 24 attacks, hitting on 2+, wounding on 2+ with a reroll, -1 rend, D3 damage. The mortal wounds and even the riders attacks are almost incidental after that. With the heraldor there to give them run and charge even a 24" apart deployment means they can be in your face turn 1. I'm a big fan of dracolines and rarely take the foot evocators any more as I think are overcosted (contentious opinion I know) for how little use you get out of them. Sure they put out silly mortal wounds but then they either die or do nothing the rest of the game. Dracolines have no trouble moving around the board to where the action is.

I think you're trying to do too much with 1 list. Cleansing Phalanx is very strong as @Nos points out (and I agree with) but you're basically spending 520 points to buff 2 units of 5 sequitors. If you're going Phalanx you probably want to have units of 10 seqs, keeping the "soul" of your list I'd be inclined to drop one of the foot evocators and the pendulum and use the points to make the sequitors in the battalion 10man. Evocators is key worded in the Cleansing Phalanx so the Dracolines fulfill the requirements...probably...the warscroll in the app doesn't match the one in the book but then it also calls both units "Evocators" and makes "on celestial dracoline" on the unit name really small

So I attended Sheffield Slaughter just over a week ago and GW Heat 1 this last weekend. I went 3-2 at both with Stormcast and just thought I'd put my thoughts down after facing a variety of different armies over the 10 games/2 weekends. To Sheffield I took: Game 1: Total Commitment vs Fyreslayers Despite regularly playing against Fyreslayers this was one of the toughest games of the weekend, my Dracolines literally bounced off his wall of half naked dwarves killing a grand total of 3 on the charge to be promptly shot to pieces by magma pikes. The game was a slow grind won perhaps more by luck than great generalship. My opponent forgot that gryphounds can retreat after attacking despite it happening the previous turn and I retreated onto one of his objectives, that might not have won it but 5 sequitors coming back to life to take his other objective sealed the win for me. I killed a grand total of 860 points but was effectively tabled. MVP of the match was the knight incantor, a 3 MW arcane bolt followed by a suicide charge with vial took out the allied Celestant Prime. Game 2: Focal Points vs Beast of Chaos My first time playing against BoC. Their endless spells were annoying and a turn 1 charge by bullgor put some serious hurt on both sequitors and dracolines. A failed charge by deep striking gors? bestigors? gave my Dracolines a chance to retreat from the bullgors and charge them to take out the whole unit in one go. This was the only battle where I felt the evocators on foot pulled their weight. Despite various shenanigans on the flank to try and slow/bog them down they ground their way through everything in their path to secure that objective. Sequitors just refused to die, a lone prime left alive in every unit ended up taking out the last of the bullgors and 10 or so ungor. A solid victory this one with me not only tabling him but killing everything he summoned as well for a loss of 380 points. Game 3: Escalation vs Legion of Sacrament The only game of the weekend that I felt was unwinnable. Arhkan + 90 grimgasts. There's not much I can say against about this. Dracolines did manage to chew through a unit of them and keep him from bringing them back for another turn. I am just yet to find an answer to grimgasts, even 30 of them is a problem for me, 90 is just ridiculous. Game 4: Places of Arcane Power vs Slaanesh Another first for me facing Slaanesh though I was fairly aware of what they did I still underestimated the killing power of daemonettes especially when in large units. Dracolines failing their turn 1 charge left me exposed to counter charges and a 6" pile in from an exalted greater demon took out both my general and artifact carrier, it did bring him within 3" of the evocators though and they made quick work of it, MWing it off the board in a single round. Before being summarily obliterated by daemonettes. Various other foolish mistakes on my part followed. Incantor blowing her vials put enough wounds on herself and a dracoline to let a keeper of secrets finish her off and reduce the dracolines to 1 which I remembered too late meant they were no longer a wizard so could no longer hold the point. Game ended with a victory for Slaanesh; I killed 1390 points and lost 1940 so very very bloody. Game 5: Better Part of Valour vs Legion of Nagash As this army was led by Nagash I was expecting an uphill struggle. Dracolines did what dracolines do though and tore through grave guard and zombies alike to secure the central point, despite Nagash's presence. Evocators chewed through spirit hosts to take the right objective at which point my opponent agreed victory was mine. We played on for kill points though. Despite killing all the Dracolines, most of the evocators and my general, Nagash eventually succumbed to sequitor great maces and was slain. 1480 kill points for 980 losses, these numbers I think were a little bit inflated by the knowledge that I'd won turn 2 and our decision to just go for kills. GW Heat 1 After Sheffield I decided to alter my list. I hadn't felt like the evocators on foot had pulled their weight at all so I dropped them in favour of more sequitors. What the list ultimately ended up looking like was: Game 1: Shifting Objectives vs Troggherd A fun but very brutal game leaving a total of 7 models on the board at the end of it. Hand of gork put a big unit of rockgut troggs 9"s from my dracolines but they failed the charge and then promptly all died to dracoline claws. 4 rotguts managed to kill or rout the big sequitor unit in a single round but the objectives shifted in my favour to give me a solid, if somewhat bruising, win. Game 2: Places of Arcane Power vs Beast of Chaos My first experience against Battletome Tzangor and a perfect example of "fool me once" with the enlightened's reroll ability allowing them to kill all the dracolines in a single round. Despite that it was a close game, by the end he had 1 character left capable of holding the points with a single wound remaining. Some of his characters died to the "wrong thing" which meant I didn't cap the points till the following turn. A couple of dice going a different way and I think this one was winnable. Game 3: Starstrike vs Stormcast 20 evocators and 4 ballista made up the bulk of this army. I was very foolish in this game but also very very lucky. I forgot, or didn't notice he had a heraldor. I moved my dracolines up to 17"s away from his evocators, perfectly safe I though till they were 5"s away with a rerollable charge...which they failed. I won priority and not wishing to look this gift horse in the mouth I promptly charged in with the dracolines and killed 14 of them, the rest ran to battleshock though they did hurt the dracolines in the process, who were promptly finished off with ballista fire. All 3 objectives dropped down one side of the board, shielded from LoS of the ballistas by a massive piece of terrain (realmscape feature limited shooting and casting to 18"s as well), I dropped 30 sequitors on them and camped there for the win. Also if anyone ever doubted it, sequitors are better than liberators in a 1v1 fight every time. Game 4: Better Part of Valour vs Deepkin This was a very back and forth game and it did come down to turn 5 to find a winner, probably my favourite of the weekend. Dracolines turn 1 charged across the board and took out 6 eels, a counter charge by 20 thralls killed the lot of them, oups. 6 eels and Volturnos crashed into 10 sequitors with Azyrite halo on them. The eels basically mortal wounded themselves to death as I rolled bucket loads of 6s to save (but couldn't hit for toffee). Volturnos, on 1 wound remaining finally killed the last sequitor on turn 3, who promptly came back on the opposite flank, thanks Hammers. A knight incantor charged Volturnos and popped a vial to finish him off. At this point, there's 2 burnt objectives, 1 on each side and score is all even. I made my first mistake here, a unit of sequitors had dropped down near the incantor to help hold the objective from some allied Khinari but they weren't close enough, they should have tried to charge Volturnos or failing that I should have burnt the objective. On the other flank, the resurrected sequitors failed a 4" charge that would have given most likely given me control of that objective (10 seqs vs 10 reavers). He moved the khinari forwards to take the objective and burnt both of them. Victory at this point was his...I did get some retribution by clearing off the reavers, khinari and a turtle but too little too late. 1480 kill points for 1280 losses. Another game that was winnable. Game 5: Border War vs Ironjawz This game was brutal and not in a good way. Opponent took first turn and moved up but couldn't charge me, Dracolines and sequitors charged on my turn. Dracoline claws alone took out 10 brutes and the arcanum killed a mega boss. Sequitors whittled down some gore grunters for maybe 1-2 deaths. I got the double turn, dracolines charged another unit of brutes, his mawcrusher and warchanter. Brutes and warchanter both died, mawcrusher survived with a couple of wounds remaining. 30 minutes into the game with 8 models left in his army and 2 kills, my opponent conceded. Overall I'm much happier with the heat 1 list, all the games felt more controlled and less seat of the pants than Sheffield sometimes had. I don't think I'll be using evocators on foot any more though. I'm not convinced they're worth the points, after their initial hit they often die or are left too far away to contribute further. I also didn't feel like the 20 man unit of sequitors was any better than the 10. I'll probably drop it in favour of 3 units of 10 for next time. I also think I need to be less aggressive with the dracolines, everything they touch turns to dead but they often die or get bogged down after that, being deep in the enemy deployment and too far from heraldors or castellants to help. My final thought is that I think we've got the tools to win (grimgasts aside) and I don't think we're in as bad a place as recent statistics make it look. A little more luck or a better player than me could, I feel, have won 3 out of the 4 games I lost.

They're only rerolling 1 to save against shooting. And you sort of missed my point. You get a one good round with them then they either die or are too far from the action to do anything useful

40 MWs from a max size unit of 20...but who runs 20 of them? That's 800 points in a single, very fragile unit. Personally I don't think Evo's need changing at all. They're high damage yes, but then they should be for 40 points a model. They're slow though and they drop like flies. I ran 10 of them on foot at Sheffield Slaughter, for Heat 1 I've swapped them for 20 more sequitors. I certainly don't think they are an "auto-include" like the afore mentioned AGKoTG

Assuming they are in the Gristgore Grand Court (stormhost equivalent) the AGoTG general will be: Attacking before combat starts Then attacking again before combat starts The 3 attack maw does a flat 6 MWs on a unmodified 6 to hit (and is -2 rend, D6 dmg for normal hits) Mount trait lets him reroll maw hits 6's to hit generate an extra hit (so on the maw that's 6MWs and a normal hit) Can be buffed with a spell that gives him potentially 3 extra attacks on all his profiles (so a 6 attack maw)

The tie-breaker was number of "Best Opponent Votes", the BoC player also won "Best Opponent"

You get 6 mortal wounds and a normal hit as per the recent FAQ:

For me it gives a Necromunda type deal. It's all set on an Imperial Hive world with rival gangs vying for supremacy. Why not a similar thing at the all points, rival Chaos Lord vying for Archaons favour? It's also worth noting that while they say it's "from the makers of Kill Team and Underworlds" they don't necessarily say it is anything like either of them

YMMV I just don't think I've ever played a game where he would have been useful to me, between screens and effective board control by my opponents the only things I can ever charge with my deep strikes are "chaff" (I'm not sure 60 grots count as chaff given how much dmg they do...). @CareBear I don't really know what a better list would be, no one is doing much trying of anything other than Gav though what I'll be taking to Sheffield Slaughter and GW heat 1 will be this: In practise games with it I think I'm 7/1 though not all of my opponents list have necessarily been "tournament lists"

Two reasons really. 1) Because he's a one trick pony that basically everyone knows how to counter at this point 2) Over reliance on him means that no one wants to consider any other kind of list that may in fact be better, in a sort of "why would I try something else when I know Gavriel works" kind of way @HammerOfSigmarin the list that was posted taking the LA would only get you 1 CP and Phalanx wasn't included so in the list in question they'd only have 1 from their turn and 1 extra if they went LA instead of LAoGC

When running 10 evocators I usually run 5 with tempest blade & stormstave in the front and 5 with grandstaves in the back. I think math wise the grandstaves are fractionally better in most circumstances. The 2" range lets them attack from the back row but I do like to keep some rend around. Spell wise it doesn't really matter what you give them as in almost all circumstances they will be casting empower. Personally I hate Gavriel and I think relying on him hurts people far more often than he helps but if you do want to take him 1 CP from your turn is not enough, you need 2 at a minimum. Mount trait wise I like the +1" move, generally though you'll see a lot of the +1 die for Ride the Winds Aetheric. LA vs LAoGC. The LA is probably only better if you desperately need the points, his CA is frankly...garbage compared to the LAoGCs though his spell is interesting, it's also a shame to lose the massive movement potential of the LAoGC in an army that is otherwise pretty slow. Tactics wise, I'm no expert and I'm sure better skilled player will correct me, but it's a bit unsure of what it wants to be. If you're going Gavriel you want to be deep striking him and 10 evocators probably + 20 sequitors and deleting all your opponents important stuff near the back of their army. You probably also want to be deep striking the Azyros to get him into position for his buff and also the Ordinator + Ballista nest...which is a problem because that's more than 1/2 your army that wants to be deep striking. I'd probably go Ordinator + Ballista + Gavriel + Evocators in the sky. Rush the Azyros forward , drop the ballista nest to take out the screen, drop Gavriel and the Evocators and sure charge whatever "elite" unit was behind the screen. Sequitors can sit on objectives and generally refuse to die (20 Sequitors + Castellant lantern will take some shifting, especially with the LA/LAoGC nearby to give them a 6+ ignore wounds and MWs)

Blood and Glory for me, it's very much an all or nothing scenario. You either crush them utterly or you don't win.

It's per phase (as you say at the beginning) not per turn (as you say at the end) so in fact you could get more than one back per turn if you lost them in different phases

You're right that it can't be cast more than once a turn but the Incantor isn't short of other spells to cast, his built in one, the Comet, Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield. Plus it gives you redundancy in case the one with Halo gets killed

If it's in base to base contact with 2 models and it moves 0" it's still in base to base contact with both those models, so it's a legal pile in. I don't think there's a contradiction there.

He can make a pile in move of 0" From the Core Rules FAQ:

The Sequitor kit is a bit of a mess full stop, between that and not having enough Greatmaces. I do get the ETB things though, they aren't really aimed at matched play players. They're a nice, easy, "cheap" option to get younger players involved. @stato oddly enough, I do prefer the mono-pose one piece models for my "rank and file" partially because I like them to look "rank and file" and partially because they're much more familiar to me. I know I'm very much in the minority there though and fair enough, it wouldn't do for us all to like the same things

They do have a reason, the Redemption Cache...it's not a good reason, but it is at least still a reason.

@azmarus personally I think Gavriel is massively overrated. He's a one trick pony that everyone and their dog knows how to counter and to really make him work you have to invest 200-250 points in him (him + 2-3 cmd points). I'm a big fan of the Phalanx though. 20 sequitors with empower, celestial blades, halo and lantern on them are not going anywhere and with 9 great maces they are going to do a fair amount of damage, especially against things like the ubiquitous 30 grimgast. If I wasn't having so much fun running a big block of EoCDs at the moment I'd probably be running something similar to this:

Opposite of the above poster, I'd take the Relictor. I find Stormcast to be a little...slow and the Translocation prayer gives me a way of mitigating that. You can also get quite a lot of milage out of Lightning Storm as well against certain armies, especially ones that haven't moved to the "unmodified 6's" wording (see BlightKings) The Castellant buff is nice but unless you're aiming for "unkillable" with for example a Stardrake or a massive Sequitor/Cleansing Phalanx list I find that the opponent being able to attack my key unit(s) with anything dangerous means I've done something wrong and they are probably dead with or without his buff.

Personally I always run Hammers (nothing to do with that as a new player I painted everything in those colours, honest), even without named characters. The +1 Bravery across the board is just too good to pass up and though it doesn't happen often, the expression on your opponents face when you return the 20 sequitors they just spent 3 turns killing is priceless.