Agent of Chaos

I am actually considering Korghos for the first time. As you say his command ability has more value and as its an aura means those units effected can still benefit from All Out Attack etc. The 8" pile in stops Unleash Hell and Finest Hour helps to ensure his axe hits home. He needs more attacks but we have ways to make that happen 🙂

The Juggerlord is definitely a tanky general for maintaining that extra CP per turn. However the issue with the Lord on Juggernaut's command ability, apart from being limited to mortals, is that it goes off in the combat phase. That means any unit you chose for the rerolling 1's to wound buff will not be able to receive all out attack/all out defence. Its also a pretty redundant ability in Goretide as mortals are already rerolling wounds of 1 when within 12" of objectives. If you get Bronzed flesh on the skullcrushers then you may not need to rely on all out defence, unless being hit with decent rend, but not convinced the Juggerlord is worth it. Bloodstoker would be the best option for full rerolls and extra movement. Then you can pop all out defence as needed.

The rerolling 1's locus is inherently more valuable now

@CrimsonKing I am far from the expert on Skullcrushers but with easy access to 2+ save and counting as extra models on objectives they are a really interesting anvil unit. They look like they should wreck face in melee but their job is to quickly get on an objective and stay there. As for flesh hounds, I will sing their praises for days!

Fair call on Thirsters and drops and agree the +1 save and healing helps them survive until they get into combat. I see your point on 10 x chaos warriors but they are viable thanks to 5+ mortal wound shrug, rerolling saves and the ability to take 2" reach or rend -1 weapon options. They are twice as tanky as blood warriors with similar damage output for the same points. Bloodwarriors might bounce a mortal wound or 2 but will die quickly and take very little with them. We are going to need all the blood tithe we can get so being forced to take 10 instead of 5 really hurts.

@Smooth criminal Agree with a lot of that except; You cant run 3 thirsters in the same core battalion. At best you can run 2 in the warlord battalion so if you want to run 3 you will be minimum 6 drops. Not terrible but will be outdropped by most armies. Thirster's points are reasonable but they lost Tyrants battalion and cant stack command abilities on themselves. Finest Hour doesnt do much when they all wound on 2+ anyway. 3+ save and heal does help them a bit so will be interesting to see where they go. Totally disagree on bloodwarriors. Absolute trash in min units of 10 with no rend and coherency stopping half the unit from swinging. One less bloodtithe point at 210 points? Hard pass.

OK so this is what I've got so far for an Idolators list; Slaves to Darkness - Idolators (5 drops) Warlord Notes Role Points Sorcerer Lord on Manticore Mark of Nurgle, Spite Tongue Curse Leader 270 Idolator Lord General, Mark of Nurgle, Great Weapon Fiery Orator, Amulet of Destiny, Heal Leader 105 Sorcerer Lord Mark of Nurgle, Mask of Darkness Leader 115 Iron Golems Mark of Nurgle Battleline 75 Battle Regiment Notes Role Warshrine Mark of Nurgle, Curse Leader, Behemoth 185 Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount Mark of Nurgle Leader 155 Chaos Lord Mark of Nurgle, Flail, Arcane Tome Leader 120 Chaos Knights Mark of Nurgle, Ensorcelled Weapons Battleline 170 Chaos Knights Mark of Nurgle, Glaives Battleline 170 20 x Chaos Warriors Mark of Nurgle, Halberds & Shields Battleline 400 Chaos Chariot Mark of Nurgle, Great Blade Battleline 105 Chaos Chariot Mark of Nurgle, Great Blade Battleline 105 TOTAL = 1975 Using Warlord and Battle Regiment Core Battalions its 5 drops. Extra Enhancement slot used for an extra artifact. Idolator Lord is a real utility/buff piece; big nurgle general aura for -1 to hit shooting and extra damage on 6's to wound, can cast 2 prayers (with fiery orator command trait) at +1 making him a very strong priest, took 5+ ward artifact which meant Heal generic prayer made the most sense to make him super survivable (Guidance prayer for extra CP every turn was tempting though). Was tempted to give him +2 wounds instead of the extra prayer so will prob try out both. 20 x warriors with halberds supported by chaos lord and warshrine make for a superb anvil with decent killing power provided enemy doesnt have a 2+ armour save. Lord has the wizard artifact so can throw mystic shield on the warriors combined with the warshrine prayer, they will be 3+ rerolling saves, ignoring rend -1. Use All Out Defense as needed to counter rend -2. Can the Lord take a spell from the Slaves Lore as well now that the artifact makes him a wizard? Manticore and Lord on Mount with 2 x knights are a fast moving hammer, supported by the 2 x chariots. Extra 25 points for a cheaky endless spell once we know the new rules/points (and/or a triumph). Would also be happy to drop a chariot and spend up to 130 points on something else but dont know what as I'm capped out on Leaders. Khagra's Ravagers maybe as an extra wizard wouldnt hurt, although I dont understand how they work as a separate unit? Is it essentially a wizard with 8 wounds or is Khagra a single unit with 2 wounds?

They will at least get to fight in 2 ranks, maybe even 3. Seeing as they wound on 4s and have easy access to +1 to hit, I think running them as Nurgle and supported by a Nurgle hero for damage 2 on 6's to wound is a good shout. Throw the warshrine's nurgle prayer on them for a 3+ save and reroll wounds and they start to look really solid. If that supporting hero is a chaos lord then they can fight twice. Not much we can do about nil rend but they will be hard to shift thats for sure.

You are good to go!

@Beer & Pretzels Gamer theres a new rule for Coalition Units; essentially units from another battletome that can be part of your faction. So Archaon can still take mark of khorne and join the khorne faction. The only consequence of the new rule is that coalition units cannot be battleline, which means chaos warriors/marauders with mark of khorne will not count as khorne battleline.

Would need to math out an old list but the loss of Gore Pilgrims and a CP should more or less balance out the increases. I imagine same would apply to those running Tyrants with 3-4 thirsters. I just dont know why you would take priests and judgements now that priests are limited to one prayer/turn and judgements can be banished by enemy priests. 195 points for a priest and wraith axe that both only do anything if you roll 5+. Unless the judgements lose their disappear at the end of the round ability I dont see myself taking any. Given we are moving to an MSU meta it seems odd that Skullreapers have gone up so much. However I guess in a high armour save meta mortal wounds are more valuable. They also have easy access to a 3+ save and Rally which helps their survivability issues. Bloodwarriors at min 10 are a hard pass as well. Coherency issues, less bloodtithe and no rend in a high armour save meta make them pretty useless at 210 points. The only reason you took Reavers was to screen your hard hitting units. New coherency rules mean they cover far less ground as a screen and so their value has gone down, yet they cop a 10 point increase. 105 for 5 is amazing value for flesh hounds so they are by far the best battleline option. No coherency issues, good screen, decent movement, can reroll 1's to hit (very rare), built in charge reroll, an unbind/dispel... whats not to like? Looks like every list I write from now on is starting with 3 x 5 flesh hounds. Riptooth and Magore's Fiends look good value at 125 as thats 2 easy blood tithe points. Might even justify running a priest with blood sacrifice.... maybe... Pleased to see Bloodsecrator only going up 5pts despite his Totem keyword giving even more utility.

Bloodstoker add's 3" to the roll so yes it does increase the number of dice you roll for mortal wounds. Also the +3" for run and charge stacks so when you use the chariots run & charge ability its gets +6" from this guy. They are best buds for sure!

@Grimrock I hear you. Outside of an Insensate Rage thirster going ham or Skarbrand, we lack the sheer damage output to deal with deathstars. The answer might be to feed them chaff, summon more chaff as needed, and ignore them. Not really the khorne way but those are the tools at our disposal. @Perturbato we can only hope! Karanak's current summoning is the most convoluted in the game and near impossible to pull off. It was great for 5min when Wraith & Rapture dropped and it happened in the movement phase. Then GW caught wind and squatted that in the FAQ. Extending the wholly within aura would help but going back to a movement phase summon fixes it completely.

I for one will now be looking at completely different lists. Flesh Hounds are by far the battleline of choice. Decent movement, extra unbinds for all those endless spells, rerolling 1's to hit from deamon locus is now a much more important ability. They can really hold their own in an MSU meta and thanks to new coherency rules, provide the biggest screen for their min unit size. Back up the hounds with some slow moving MSU of skullreapers and wrathmongers with Bloodsecrator/Bloodstoker support, maybe even an Aspiring Deathbringer now that there are enough CP to use his ability. Sprinkle on some Bloodthirsters and theres an interesting list brewing.

Seems the intent is clear that priests are limited to 1 prayer per turn, which includes an Invocation (Judgement) & a Blood Blessing. The wording (20.0) is that all Priests can chant 1 prayer that they know. It then goes on to say that Priests know the generic prayers (bless & smite), the prayer(s) on their warscroll and on the warscrolls of invocations in the same army. It also says that Invocations are summoned by "chanting the prayer on its warscroll" (20.3). As someone who did not want this change, it seems clear to me that the invocation is considered a prayer and so is not chanted in addition to a warscroll/generic prayer. Blood Blessings would also appear to be considered as prayers however they might be FAQ'ed as their own unique benefit to Khorne priests which we can do in addition to a regular prayer as it currently reads in the battletome (somehow doubt this will happen but one can hope). However it likely means Slaughterpriests will know up to 5 different prayers, plus any judgements you bring, but can only attempt one per turn (and thats only if they didnt sacrifice their one prayer to attempt to banish an opponent's invocation). Im also guessing with the emphasis on priests and new hero abilities in this edition they will actually go up in points, if not stay at 100. Given that Judgements no longer block movement, can disappear themselves in addition to your opponent being able to banish them, It makes our priests and especially judgements very questionable as they are too unreliable and limited.

And just so everybody is clear: Not all Monsters are Behemoths, and not all Behemoths are Monsters. However for the sake of Core Battalions; All non-Leader Behemoths are Monsters but Non-Behemoth Monsters and Leader type Monsters are not Monsters... Got it? Good. Simples...

@Kurrilino I guess it means you can give the 6+ to a unit and charge it out of shrine range? Or give it to a Daemon Prince or other non-mortal? I'm reaching for the positives here. That slaves article was a joke. Core Battalions dont appear to do a lot;

We already saw cogs get a new scroll so maybe daemon rift and other endless spells are being changed to not be as oppressive?

@Roark If weapon ranges are changed on warscrolls then it might be OK. 2" reach bloodletters with their giant 2 hand swords makes sense and makes them a viable unit again. However I dont see blood warriors or reavers getting a 2" reach so yeah; sucks if you dont have great 25mm based infantry. Is marauder spam the answer... again?

@Beer & Pretzels Gamer correct; DOK priests were limited to one prayer per turn. It was particularly obnoxious in DOK because they were a top tier faction. Was less of a problem in Khorne as, although Slaughterpriests were amazing value for their points, the faction as a whole was very mid-tier. @Grimrock Good point about the generic command abilities making up for the lost prayers. We can only hope for some scroll rewrites and/or stronger allegiance abilities. Can't tie up ranged units with chaff as they will shoot them to pieces on approach. Judgments, which were already swingy, can now be banished. Slaughterpriests and battalions were carrying mortal khorne; now what does it have? The Daemon Locus to reroll 1's to hit is more valuable given its no longer a command ability so thats something. But everything on a 32mm base is now hard to use in units of 10 or more. Reavers cant screen as effectively. Letters and Warriors get less attacks in. Looking like a rough edition so far...

Good points @Grimrock Warriors are probably the biggest loser of the new coherency rules with their 32mm bases and 1" reach. Makes a strong argument for halberds being the best loadout. Everything else tends to operate in 5's or is on 25mm bases. Some of the Warcry stuff might struggle to screen effectively. Chariots will be useful if they are pointed correctly. 120 is a bit of a joke for their output. Same goes for horsemen at 110. "On the flip side, you really need to think about Battleshock now, as only one unit can benefit from the Inspiring Presence command ability." This is a great change. The bravery bomb list might become a viable option again.

"On the flip side, you really need to think about Battleshock now, as only one unit can benefit from the Inspiring Presence command ability." This is a great change. Certainly helps Reapers of Vengeance. It is sort of implied by the first line of the banishing Invocation rule below... Might mean you've only got one prayer per turn, might mean you lose one prayer slot out of however many you have. Needs clarification. You can only banish an enemy prayer instead of chanting a prayer with that priest. So that severely limits their usefulness if its a 1 prayer per turn limit. Seeing as they introduced 2 generic prayers it would mean a Slaughterpriest would know up to 5 different prayers, in addition to any Judgements, but only be able to pick 1 per hero phase (assuming they didnt banish an invocation). Still unclear if Invocations can be attempted in addition to a prayer so that needs clarifying. Slaughterpriests are probably undercosted in AOS2 given they can unbind, chant 2 prayers and a judgement, likely with a free reroll to chant from the altar. This isnt an issue currently because Khorne as a whole is not a strong faction and has substantial limitations such as minimal ranged damage, average movement, no teleport, etc. I fear that slaughterpriests will stay at 100, or even become more expensive, but be much worse off if its only 1 prayer/turn. Yes they can issue generic commands but that isnt unique to them.

Im very concerned prayers will be limited to 1 per turn. Although strange they now gave 2 generic prayers to every priest. Hopefully Judgements are an exception as, now that enemy priests can banish them, going to be really hard to justify slaughterpriests. Unless the rules for melee attack range change, units of 10 x bloodwarriors, Bloodletters, Bloodreavers and 6+ skullcrushers/blood crushers will be very tough to use. At least we are well placed to take advantage of an MSU meta; its going to rain bloodtithe

With any luck Inspiring Presence will be gone, or at least changed to not be an auto-pass. Make Bravery matter again. I do think Ravagers becomes more interesting as you will have enough CP to proc command abilities and summon a unit every turn. Nurgle warriors backed by a warshrine can be really tanky. Khorne warriors with greatblades instead of runeshields can put in work but are probably still outclassed by marauders sadly.

I highly doubt we will see the return of strength and toughness in AOS. That system certainly has its place with its own strengths and weaknesses but I think having fixed hit and wound characteristics is as much a feature of AOS as the double turn. Apart from having to rewrite every single warscroll in the game, bringing it back would (rightly or wrongly) add a further layer of complexity to the rules which have already become substantially more bloated then their original 4 pages and I dont think thats what the AOS design team is gong for. With AOS3 seeing armies receive an abundance of CP compared to AOS2, I think theres actually an opportunity for Slaves as we have a few heroes with good command abilities but are generally a CP starved army, especially in a Ravagers legion. I guess if you're not running Khorne daemon Princes, chaos lords on foot/mount/karkadrak and/or Ravagers then the extra CP wont mean too much. But being able to use the chaos lord's fight twice ability on multiple units a turn should go some way towards boosting our melee output. Also with the new charge reactions, being able to hold fast against a charge with 3+ rerolling save chaos warriors should be fun (2+ save if they are nurgle marked with the warshrine buff). At least warriors will have an even more defined role as an anvil.