Agent of Chaos
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Increasing priests after they increased gore pilgrims would be a big hit. Of course if Blood warriors saw a drop it might balance out. 5 for 90 feels right for them as they can only take the one special weapon per 10, as compared to liberators who can take 1 per 5 and are 100 points.
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The latest general's handbook increased gore pilgrims to 200 points and so overrides the points in the khorne battletome. The old points cost was in AOS v1. In AOS 2 battalions give you a command point which normally costs you 50 points so that is now built into the cost. Gore Pilgrims is still very much worth it but pretty much only if you max it out with all 3 priests. Skull Crushers do quite well I'm told. Bit of a shock cavalry, some mortal wounds on the charge, some resilience with high wounds and extra resistance to magic damage. Your plans to buff them with a priest and juggerlord are solid. If going that route there is a battalion called Brass Stampede which you may want to check out.
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@Kharneth for points you need to buy the generals handbook. It can be purchased through the app a bit cheaper than the hard copy book. GW release a new one every 12 months; pretty sure the current book will be valid for another 6 months or so. For Khorne rules you need to buy the Khorne battletome (hard cover or via the app) which includes command traits, artifacts, prayers and allegiance abilities (a system known as Blood Tithe: basically you get 1 blood tithe point for each unit destroyed, yours or your opponents, up to a max of 8). Summoning khorne daemons is also tied to the blood tithe system however those rules came out after the battletome and so for those you need the FAQ (available as a free download from GW website). You can summon any daemon unit using your blood tithe points, from flesh hounds to blood thirsters. There are various ways to obtain blood tithe points outside of killing units if you want your army to really focus on summoning and you will find those in the battletome. The old rules for summoning via wizards are gone and you dont have to have had a unit in your army from the start in order to summon it. Most Slaves to Darkness units can take a god mark i.e. Khorne (it will say on their warscroll if they can), including Daemon Princes, and then simply join your khorne army. When they do this any heroes take artifacts from the khorne allegiance so you dont need the salves to darkness allegiance rules unless you want to play slaves to darkness allegiance instead of khorne (hint: dont do that). The rules for slaves can be found in the generals handbook as they dont have their own battletome at this stage.
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@Fireymonkeyboy Check out "Rerolling Ones" on you tube. They have recently filmed a few battle reports in a skirmish campaign and it looks really good! Its Undead vs Stormcast so you can get an idea of an elite warband vs a horde type. The Undead player wrecks face although I felt the Stormcast player was generally poor with their tactics and choices. I've never considered Skirmish until I saw those videos and now am very interested!
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But even Liberators get one special weapon per 5 models! I think the 5 man blood warrior unit would see a lot more action if it could take a goreglaive.
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Yeah I dont run blood warriors outside gore pilgrims but when I do I run the full 10 for the goreglaive, give them gorefists and use them as bodyguards for the priests and bloodsecrator. Outside of that, as you said there are other units that can perform the same jobs for less points. Dam they do look nice though!
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Nice write up. I really like the sound of your format. I understand the cap on summoning although I wonder how this balances out with armies who are designed to summon as part of their allegiance abilities? I suppose as a beginners league its absolutely fine. Does the 50 points escalation each round make much difference? I imagine for most armies that is insufficient to add another unit. When thinking about escalation leagues I've felt 100 points was right as that guaranteed at least one new unit or hero in your army each round but could see how that spirals out of control before long.
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Consensus seems to be that in a khorne army the Doombull would not have access to the khorne command traits and artifacts on account of not having any of the required keywords (mortal, bloodbound or daemon). It would also mean that Bullgors would not count as battleline as that only applies under Beasts of Chaos allegiance. Gors are generic battleline and so would count if taken in the Brass Despoilers battalion. If you took Brass Despoilers but in Beasts of Chaos allegiance, the Doombull can have a trait/artifact but you then couldn't take any khorne stuff as allies such as a bloodstoker or bloodsecrator. Its like GW heard us all saying we wanted to mark our beasts and so provided a way to do that but without actually remembering how the rest of their rules intertwine or thinking the whole thing through from start to finish (as evidenced by the FAQ having to clarify the battalions do in fact work with the god allegiance). Its actually stunning how the player base is always several steps ahead of GW on this stuff...
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That makes perfect sense! :-)
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I get what you're saying however the whole point of the list is to get as many khorne based buffs in to take advantage of the brass despoilers battalion. If you strip all of the khorne heroes out of there its pointless and becomes a totally different list. Besides I can't drop the blood warriors as they are required in the gore pilgrims battalion. The Bloodstoker is there to boost the Bullgors otherwise average movement and ensure they get the charge. The battalion benefit extends beyond +1A on 9 Bullgors as it also ignores battleshock and forces the opponent to reroll successfull casts. The Slaughterpriests are their to provide +1 to hit for the bullgors and dropping down to 2 or even 1 priest vastly reduces the reliability of getting the hit bonus off, at which point you may as well not bother with any khorne heroes and just stick with BOC allegiance.
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I bought a whole bunch of marauder horsemen with some of these shenanigans in mind. If you buff with slaughterpriests and other stuff they can do some damage, however there are far better units to be putting your buffs onto. I def think they can play a role as a flank harasser, area denier, if they get close enough their shooting should hurt a weak character or war machine. Might be a good way to tackle undead as they can surge forward, throw their javelins over the skeletons and into the Necromancer behind.
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They were so close to giving us something workable... such a tease!
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Shizen!!!
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To be clear, the bloodsecrator's banner definitely doesn't stack. It was open to interpretation initially but has since been clarified via an FAQ. Correct me if im wrong but I think its possible to run the Brass Despoilers battalion in a BOC army and just take the khorne heroes you want as allies. 320 points gets you a bloodsecrator, bloodstoker and a single slaughterpriest... not ideal but there is some buffing potential there and that way your Bullgors count as battleline assuming a Doombul general. Unfortunately there is some redundancy in the bloodsecrator given the herdstone buff while anything that ambushes will likely be out of the attack buff range. Perhaps a better ally allotment is 3 priests and a Bloodstoker for 380 points. Leaves only 2 slots for BOC heroes but you may see more value out of the priests then the bloodsecrator, provided they pass their 4+ prayer rolls!
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Indeed the "Doom" part of the Doombull's name is subjective at best! Bullgors would go off in a Khorne army with those buffs you mentioned, not to mention a bloodstoker to increase their charge and reroll 1's to wound. However its a tricky list to put together. Something like this maybe... Allegiance: KhorneDoombull (120)Bloodsecrator (140)Bloodstoker (80)Slaughterpriest (100)Slaughterpriest (100)Slaughterpriest (100) 10 x Blood Warriors (200)10 x Bloodreavers (70)10 x Bloodreavers (70) 3 x Bullgors (160)3 x Bullgors (160)3 x Bullgors (160)Brass Despoilers (190)Gore Pilgrims (200)Total: 1850 / 2000 390 points is a stupid amount to spend on battalions however it makes for a two drop list and Gore Pilgrims ensures some reliability out of the Priests and extends the range of the banner (because if you arent getting those buffs onto the Bullgors what was the whole point?). I would probably fill out the remaining 150 points with either a second unit of 5 x blood warriors in the gore pilgrims plus a CP, or possibly assorted BOC units that fit into Brass Despoilers, pair of chariots maybe??? It looks like a fun list and you would definitely enjoy charging buffed up Bullgors into the fray and hoping you kill enough stuff to summon some daemons. However I seriously doubt if it would be competitive.
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I dont know if theres been a consensus on warherds in general being sub par. I think most people see value in the Doombull and Gorgon. The Gorgon's ability to select and remove a specific model, via eating, can be very powerful in the right circumstances. The Cygor is OK in specific scenarios but is probably better to summon rather than start with unless you know your opponent is strong in magic. Bullgors are OK and will hold a special place in many BOC player's hearts but that 5+ save doesnt stand up to much, as you noted the 4+ to hit is a big issue and there may be an argument for them being sub-par when compared to other options. If you want a monstrous cavalry style unit that represents value for points; Dragon Ogres are faster (both as a base and with their allegiance ability), have more wounds and a better save, can be healed via the Shaggoth's 20"range spell which also allows them to reroll wound rolls, they reroll 1's to hit if within 12" of a Shaggoth and are 20 points cheaper for a unit of 3 (140 vs 160). Granted in a single round of combat Bullgors should do more damage with the ability for some mortal wounds, however the dragon ogres will stick around longer which might mean more damage over the course of the game. That being said, if we consider the Shaggoth buffs in the dragon ogre's value then the Shaggoth's points (180) need to be considered. Likewise if you are taking Bullgors then you are probably taking a Doombull (120) to buff their wound rolls. For a single unit and corresponding hero the warherds are 40 points cheaper and perhaps that is the argument for taking them over Dragon Ogres. The gap reduces to 20 points cheaper if you take two units of Bullgors vs Dragon Ogres and reaches parity if you take 3 units with the corresponding hero at which point Dragon Ogres seem streets ahead given their higher durability. You could buff the Bullgor hit rolls with some slaughterpriests in a khorne army using the Brass Despoilers battalion which might be the key to unlocking the true potential of Bullgors however it remains to be seen if that forms the basis of a competitive list.
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@CarkFish That would be because the only Heroes you can take in the Brass Despoilers Battalion are Beastlords or Doombulls. Shaggoths being wizards means they're not welcome in a Khorne battalion.
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The only thing you can do; Play, assess, make change, play again! You may find it works perfectly well as is for the way you play. Or you might find that extra 6" range on the banner would have been crucial. You may find the Mighty Lord of Khorne underwhelming, or he may win games for you as his axe cuts a swathe through the hardiest opposing Hero/Monster. As you said, easiest swap out for a 3rd Priest is the Aspiring Deathbringer or the Mighty Lord. I would keep the Bloodstoker as he is too valuable. Mighty Lord would be my choice as the axe is dicey and you may not need his ability to make your charges whereas there are very few scenarios where the Aspiring's +1 attack isnt warranted. If you made that change the list would be at 1970. You could then drop the Reavers down from 20 to 10 and you have exactly 100 points to play with for another 5 Blood Warriors or Khorgorath! Sorry, my tinkering with lists is endless!
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Yep pretty good looking list right there although I would definitely consider Roark's comments. My two cents would be that if you are running Gore Pilgrims, its best to max it out with all 3 Priests. Otherwise you are missing out on another 6" range for the banner, plus another re-rollable Bloodboil/Killing Frenzy attempt. Each Priest is a huge force multiplier and given the abilities are built into the high cost of the battalion, I feel that you miss out if you dont take all 3. Getting the banner range to 30" is key for shutting down your opponent's magic as their casters will often be in range from turn 1 which is huge.
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Yes, heroes can only take one artifact each. The General can also take a command trait. If the Bloodsecrator takes one of the banners, that counts as his artifact. p.s. dont take one of the banners, the range is too short to ever be effective. If stuck for something to take, the Brazen Rune will rarely let you down.
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AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness / Darkoath Discussion
Agent of Chaos replied to Gaz Taylor's topic in Chaos
Leave the knights in as you need something with a bit of speed. Probably better to run as 2 units of 5 but he can make that call after a few games. Shields are the way to go for the warriors. You might consider halberds on the unit of 20 but if they are already modeled and painted dont worry about it. At the end of the day they are there for objectives, screening and area denying- not to kill stuff.- 1,488 replies
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AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness / Darkoath Discussion
Agent of Chaos replied to Gaz Taylor's topic in Chaos
Any list with Skarbrand will give you a chance at a local level! -
Gore Pilgrims will change your life.
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@CoyoteUse maxed out Gore Pilgrims to extend the range of the bloodsecrator. Rerolling successfull casts will cause him to fail the odd spell, and any he does get through you have a chance to unbind. Brazen Rune to protect the Bloodsecrator and dont be shy about using it up for an auto unbind. Dont forget the auto unbind via 2 bloodtithe points as well. Scattered flesh hounds can help unbind provided he isnt getting bonuses to cast.
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The Khorne battletome has 6 additional prayers from which slaughterpriests can choose one to use in the battle, in addition to the two basic prayers they start with. These prayers are not spells and so are not affected by any rule of one and can stack (khorne players do expect this to be nerfed one day but nothing so far). As @kenshin620 said, there is a prayer called Killing Frenzy which on 4+ gives +1 to hit. A couple of those on the Bullgors and hey presto they hit on 2's!
