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Agent of Chaos

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  1. Agent of Chaos
    I got 2 lots of the reavers from the starter set and so used leftover Skullreaper weapons on the second unit of reavers to help differentiate them. Works really well. Your plans for kitbashing priests sounds solid. @123lac dont have any pics handy at the moment (no close ups anyway) but will take some and post probably next week at this stage.
  2. Agent of Chaos
    I did it in reverse. I built Wrathmongers with the box, then used 5 x bloodwarrior legs to make Skullreapers. Some cutting down of the bodies and minor green stuff was needed but otherwise worked really well. The remaining 5 bloodwarriors paired up with the 5 from the starter set to make a unit of 10 with a goreglaive.
  3. Agent of Chaos
    When a bloodletter (1 wound) rides a juggernaut = 4 wounds (Bloodcrushers) When a chaos warrior (2 wounds) rides a juggernaut = 5 wounds (Skullcrushers) When a Lord of Khorne (assume 5 wounds as per most heroes) rides a Juggernaut = 8 wounds From the above I think we can safely determine that a Juggernaut has 3 wounds, yes? So when a Herald of Khorne (5 wounds) rides a juggernaut he has... 6 wounds??? WTF?! Hey Skullmaster, why does your Juggernaut only have 1 wound??? Or are you a ******-weak herald with only 3 wounds??? Even though Slaanesh and Tzeetnch heralds can get mounts for free, we pay 20 points and dont even get the full wounds compliment... not cool GW
  4. Agent of Chaos
    @Zamik I'll most likely do a report after the event so stay tuned for that. I considered the Skullgrinder instead of Scyla but Scyla seems more fun. Love those allegiance ability changes you've suggested, although I would be wary of it becoming too powerful in conjunction with summoning. The Daughters of Khaine allegiance ability is bananas however they can't summon. I would be happy enough if we could bank unspent blood tithe instead of wasting it, even if the cap stayed at 8. That would at least occasionally allow for summoning and other abilities in the same turn, or just for the abilities to see more use.
  5. Agent of Chaos
    Happy New Year Blood & Skull lovers! Bit of a sad ending to last year with the nerf to Bloodletters, slightly offset by the major boost to Karanak and minor boost to Bloodcrushers. It doesn't appear Khorne is on the new model/tome release list this year, although rumors continue regarding a World Eaters 40K release however this could occur without any new models for AOS. The GHB2019 will be interesting to see if we get any favourable points adjustments. Also very wary that the next GHB may see prayers cop the rule of 1 and stop us from stacking killing frenzy/bronzed flesh and/or farming blood tithe through multiple blood sacrifices. Not that I look to abuse the prayers but when I do have 2 priests with killing frenzy its so I can spread the love around and not stack all the buffs on one unit. Limiting prayers to be used on one unit, instead of only one type of prayer, would be an OK compromise in my eyes. Then again maybe GW wont address it at all as khorne has been hit enough with the nerf bat in the last couple of years. Hell we may even get a new FAQ that fixes our allegiance ability (doubt it!). I'm kicking off the year with a 1000 point tournament this Sunday and am looking at a different sort of list, something like this; Allegiance: KhorneAspiring Deathbringer (80) - General - Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer - Trait: Violent Urgency - Artefact: The Brazen Rune Bloodstoker (80)Scyla Anfingrimm (100)Skullgrinder (80)10 x Blood Warriors (200) - Goreaxes - 1x Goreglaives5 x Flesh Hounds (100)5 x Skullreapers (170) - Daemonblades - 1x Soultearers3 x Bloodcrushers (140)Total: 950 / 1000Extra Command Points: 1 Its a beginners tournament designed to kick start the AOS scene in my area (Central Coast, NSW, Australia- say hi if you're local!). With that in mind I want to run my 10 Bloodwarriors because I just got them painted, am quite happy with how they turned out and so want to see them on the table. Unfortunately its 20% of my army and won't get much in the way of buffs so not sure how I will best use them. Once I get over the paint job I can see these guys being reserved for 2000 point games but time will tell. The Aspiring Deathbringer and Bloodstoker will hang out with the Skullreapers and go kill things, while the flesh hounds and blood crushers can all keep pace with Scyla, whose 6" leaping pile in ability should allow him to get to some unsuspecting heroes in the backfield. I have the old Scyla model and have never used him in AOS before so should be fun. Similar story with Bloodcrushers, never used them but in a beginners tournament with the new charge buff I'm prepared to give them a shot (also with the 10 point reduction, taking them instead of knights means I get a spare command point). I've decided not to take a bloodsecrator because in a recent practice game I just found him to get left behind and out of range. I was tempted to run him forward before planting the banner but was wary of my opponents' magic, shooting and summoning. The Deathbringer can do a similar job for the mortals while the faster daemons will likely be out of range even if I move him forward first turn. Ideally I would like a Skullmaster Herald on Juggernaught instead of Scyla as he could keep pace with the daemons and pop their loci abilities. Sadly I do not have the model as yet so that will have to wait for another day. So, my fellow Khorne brethren... What are your thoughts on the above? How are you kicking off 2019? What are you looking forward to/dreading as far as new models/rules go?
  6. Agent of Chaos
    @Izikail does summoning count as deepstriking? if so, then yes. Also Karanak's new battalion allows for some teleporting shenanigans. You can also use a Wraith of Khorne bloodthirster's command ability to allow one daemon unit to run and charge with +1" to both. Combine that with a Bloodstoker who gives +3" to both, and pretty much any daemon unit you choose will be able to get a first turn charge. More alphastrike than deepstrike butp retty great none the less :-)
  7. Agent of Chaos
    Khorne was already considered mid-tier. The mass amount of mortal wounds a buffed unit of bloodletters could do is what kept khorne competitive. That and the recent success of the Council of Blood list with 3-4 bloodthirsters. The recent nerfing of the doppelganger cloak via the FAQ to be a once per game ability will likely hurt that list a bit as well. Bloodletter mortal wounds can no longer be buffed leaving us to rely on 6's which vastly reduces their damage output (while their points have remained the same) and therefore one of khorne's greatest sources of mortal wounds (which are essential in being competitive). The ability to summon is certainly significant when looking at competitiveness. However of the summoning armies, khorne has the most limited mechanic, having to choose between using blood tithe to summon units or use special abilities (the sort of special abilities other armies get for free and in addition to their summoning i.e. slaanesh hosts, tzeentch destiny dice, nurgle corruption wheel, seraphon teleport, death legions, etc). In addition khorne is the only summoning army whose unspent summoning points are wasted instead of banked, on top of the points being capped at 8. Combine the above with no magic, virtually no shooting (certainly no reliable shooting), a host of redundant or non-cost effective units, expensive battalions, unreliable prayers (outside gore pilgrims), generally poor armour saves across the board, lack of mortal wound saves (outside of allied slaves to darkness units and one or two artifacts), average to low movement (outside of wraith of khorne bloodthirster's command ability and the bloodstoker) and melee units that are average at what they do without buffs. Khorne can still be a lot of fun to play, looks great on the table and has great fluff/lore, but is going to be outmatched by most opponents on the competitive scene far more often then not.
  8. Agent of Chaos
    I thought the list winning events was the Council of Blood, which they have done nothing to nerf...
  9. Agent of Chaos
    Agreed @GeneralZero it was never meant to bestow the abilities of each mark, just the mark itself. @Esmer go for it mate! Especially appropriate for narrative/casual games and outside of GW sponsored tournaments no matched play player will mind. Rule of cool trumps most concerns in this game!
  10. Agent of Chaos
    @andysonic1 apparently the bloodcrushers came down by 10 points. No matter the points, removing the leader with +1 attack makes zero sense. Apart from the chance to do 6 mortal wounds on the charge they hit like pillows.
  11. Agent of Chaos
    Has anyone noticed that according to the new Bloodcrusher warscroll, the unit no longer has a leader with +1 attack? Might be an error, or a minor nerf to offset their increased charge damage. They are meant to be ELITE bloodletters, yet have the same profile as regular blood letters and no leader with bonus attack. Bloodletters still have a leader with +1 Attack but what is the point of the standard bearer in a unit of bloodletters (as opposed to the icon)? +1 to charge for each enemy hero the unit kills. Like how many times are they going to be in a position to charge after killing a hero??? Such a weird, situational benefit that you are very unlikely to remember even if it did become relevant so why would anyone take that over the icon? On top of the near useless shooting attack for 1 in 5 flesh hounds, what the hell was GW thinking with these changes???
  12. Agent of Chaos
    I suspect with these changes his points will increase but hopefully nothing too drastic
  13. Agent of Chaos
    its been widely discussed in the Blades of Khorne Facebook group by people who saw the twitch stream and others reacting to it. If any khorne player on here is not a member of that group I would encourage you to join. Theres been no discussion on points other than someone said Blood Crushers came down by 10 in addition to the charging mortal wounds on 2+ instead of 4+. The shooting attack on the lead flesh hound is so meh its not funny. 8" range (so useless the turn they are summoned), 1 shot, no rend, 1 damage. Why they bothered I'll never know. Karanak is a badass now with 6 attacks that do D3 damage, plus his claws, plus does D3 mortal wounds to a wizard if he successfully unbinds. He also gained the Hero keyword which is great for 3 places of power. Bloodletters do mortals on unmodified 6's in addition to other damage which feels like a pretty big nerf. Someone will have to math hammer the difference in damage output.
  14. Agent of Chaos
    Now that he has the hero keyword and a decent attack profile I suspect Karanak will see more use. Blood Crushers with a 10 point reduction and mortal wounds caused on 2+ on the charge could also see play, especially in units of 6 for D6 mortal wounds on the charge. The nerf to bloodletters means the Bloodletter bomb is pretty much dead as its too huge a points investment for not enough guaranteed damage. One option is to apply all of the buffs onto Skullreapers however without the ability to run and charge they would need to be protected until they can get into combat which will require greater tactical play (and not a great list option against gunlines). Gorepilgrims will always be viable because who doesnt like extra attacks and battleshock immunity? Not mention that Slaughter priests are now one of, if not the best sources of mortal wounds in the army and getting to reroll the failed prayers is huge. If they fix the allegiance ability so we dont have to choose between summoning or abilities, unlike every other chaos god army or summoning army, khorne will remain strong. Even if the only change was that unspent bloodtithe points are banked instead of wasted it would be so much better. However without this change and having lost our only mass damage, first turn charge unit, things could get tough.
  15. Agent of Chaos
    I recently played a 1000 point doubles tournament where I took the following; Wraith of Khorne Bloodthirster Lord on Daemonic Mount Bloodstoker 2 x 5 Chaos Knights 2 x 10 Bloodreavers I was teamed with a Skaven Skyre list that was very shooty and magical so my list was designed around screening the skaven with the Bloodthirster to get in their face early and give them something to worry about. Not sure if I would run the same list in a pure 1000 game however I think it could work.
  16. Agent of Chaos
    Many years ago I was a Warriors of Chaos player and so have amassed a large amount of warriors, knights, chariots, marauders & marauder horsemen. I have rarely run them as slaves for the reasons stated above but like you they for a nice core to draw from and experiment with as when you put them in a god aligned army and buff them with the right heroes they can certainly go well. Knights for example go really well with a bloodsecrator & bloodstoker in a khorne army. With extra movement, an extra attack and rerolling 1's to wound they suddenly are really good value at 160 points. If you take a Slaves lord on daemonic mount and/or a slaughter priest to buff their hit rolls they become dynamite.
  17. Agent of Chaos
    Highly conditional yet still very average allegiance ability, no summoning, no deepstrike/ambushing movement shenanigans other than Sayl who has to bring Nightmaw and can be unbound, almost no mortal wound output or ranged attacks and the few units that can do damage (knights and chosen) are overcosted. Slaves are very far from competitive right now and are best used to supplement a chaos god aligned army.
  18. Agent of Chaos
    Beasts of Chaos have a very well fleshed out allegiance ability, in addition to summoning, access to wizards/endless spells for mortal wound damage, ambushing, etc, etc. Far more sneaky shenanigans available to them then Khorne. Besides nobody's Warherd strategy relied on mortal wound output from Bullgors because even with modifiers it was never putting out anywhere near the output of bloodletters so probably not a fair comparison.
  19. Agent of Chaos
    Wholeheartedly support Blood Crushers getting a boost to make them worthwhile. As others have said, an extra attack for each rider would probably just about do it (and fit with the fluff of the riders being the best of the best bloodletters). However I really cant understand these calls for Bloodletters to pop mortals on unmodified 6's or even that this change would be OK with some khorne players... (warning: incoming rant)... A lot of investment has to go into the mortal wound dealing Bloodletter Bomb; The unit itself (320) + Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (320) + Bloodstoker (80) + at least one Slaughterpriest with killing frenzy (100) and if you want to keep them in range of the bloodsecrator first turn then you will have dropped another 400 points on 2 more priests and gorepilgrims. And all this for a glass cannon unit which will certainly delete whatever you throw it at first turn but then die to a stiff breeze immediately after. Currently if you can get 30 into combat (which never happens) with one Killing Frenzy prayer and in range of the bloodsecrator, you can expect 30 mortal wounds from your 60 attacks. Admittedly this is a lot but as stated above, you're only deleting one or two units for an 1100+ point investment that turn, to then lose your 320 point unit in your opponent's turn. If your opponent knows how to screen then the tactic is easily defeated, or at least mitigated. If the bloodletters are outside bloodsecrator range then the mortal wound output is halved. If you fail killing frenzy, if you can only get 15-20 in melee range, etc etc you get the idea. If the proposed change of unmodified 6's were to come in then the best you could expect from your 1100 + point investment with all 60 attacks (which you will almost never get) is 10 mortal wounds.... and people would be OK with this?!?!?! The bloodletter bomb is pretty much the only sneaky trick that khorne can play outside of some battalion shenanigans. Yes we can summon which is certainly nice, however its at the expense of our other allegiance abilities which is a limitation not placed on any of the other chaos god abilities (all three can summon separately to their other abilities). Even the cap on 8 tithe points or the fact unspent points are wasted instead of banked is harsh when compared to the others. If anyone is at all familiar with the shenanigans of Daughters of Khaine, Idoneth Deepkin, Nighthaunt, Seraphon, even Sylvaneth with the teleporting between the woods and summoning tree lords, etc then you would know that Bloodletters are absolutely fine as they are! I realise the game has been moving towards abilities popping on unmodified 6's for many new units (with some old ones being retconned) and this may be why people are anticipating the change. However GW returning to a 2 year old battletome and applying this nerf to bloodletters, without a points decrease or otherwise addressing the limitations of the khorne allegiance ability in comparison to newer armies or other chaos gods, would be brutal. And yes I do also realise that the bloodletter bomb is part of a wider strategy as it forces your opponent to deal with them allowing you to carry out your next move, however it is a huge points investment as outlined above and so needs to remain a strong damage dealing option in order to remain viable. Otherwise there are much cheaper ways to put a 30 wound screen in your opponent's face turn 1. So if those saying they would be fine with this change could give it a rest so as not to encourage GW to actually make the change, that would be great.
  20. Agent of Chaos
    Regarding chariots (gorebeast or regular), as individuals each one is exalted and gets the +1 to hit for the axe/flail. However if you plan on buffing them, with a lord on daemonic mount's ability for example, then putting them in a unit ensures they all receive the buff. Another consideration; they get extra attacks on a charge roll of 8+ so having 2-3 individual units increases the chance of this happening for at least one of them (assuming all charging the same target at the same time). Of course as a unit of 2 or 3 then one successful 8+ charge benefits all at once. So its all or nothing on that option. Maybe the deciding factor is that the "unit" does mortal wounds on the charge (each model within "2" of the unit takes a mortal wound on 6). As a unit of 2 or 3, the ability would only goes off once. However if 2 or 3 individual chariots successfully charge then the ability would go off multiple times. That being said, I would probably be inclined to run them as individual units for the sake of flexibility and avoidance of battle shock.
  21. Agent of Chaos
    Im pretty sure thats right, but if you had any +1 hit modifiers then it would go back the other way.
  22. Agent of Chaos
    Whip the Skullreapers with a bloodstoker to give reroll wound rolls of 1. Almost as if they were meant to go together!
  23. Agent of Chaos
    Double or nothing!
  24. Agent of Chaos
    At the end of the day I'm happy for blood warriors to stay at the current points, as long as they don't touch priests! I mean, if a priest is worth more than 100 points, a Daughters of Kaine Hag Queen who gives reroll wounds and no battleshock WITHOUT NEEDING TO ROLL!!! has got to be worth 200+ (currently 60...)
  25. Agent of Chaos
    10 buffed up blood warriors don't hit as hard as 5 unbuffed skull reapers. No rend and 1 damage will only do so much, even if all their hits and wounds go through. And there are actually quite a few buffs available to liberators including spells that buff melee, lanterns to buff saves, lord celestant hit buff, extra attack from Vandus Hammerhand in a Hammers of Sigmar army, etc. Granted you wouldn't waste all of your buffs on liberators if there was a more powerful candidate however the exact same applies to blood warriors and so I think in the broader context they are a very fair comparison.
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