Agent of Chaos

@grimgoldAn all Daemon army is certainly viable, as is an all mortal army. The most successful Khorne armies (from a tournament perspective) tend to mix a bit of both. However if you are a casual/narrative player then an all daemon army is fun, fluffy and more than capable of winning games. Be aware that most of the best buffs come from the mortal heroes (Bloodsecrator, Bloodstoker, Slaughterpriests, Lord on Juggernaught) although the best command ability and probably the best general is the Wraith of Khorne Bloodthirster. There is no reason why you couldnt have all daemon troops with a sprinkling of mortal daemon heroes- that way you only have a handful of models that dont crossover with 40K. Daemon Princes can be fun too. Based on your proposed purchases, there are a couple of daemon battalions that you should look at building towards such as Murderhost and/or BloodHunt. There is also a new battalion specially for the Wraith & Rapture units which you can increase in size with the start collecting box. If you do get a start collecting box I would recommend the skull cannon over the blood throne. The hardest part with an all daemon army is you need even more spare daemon units for summoning although there are other abilities to use bloodtithe on, besides you may not be in a position to summon until your units are dead anyway in which case you re-use the same models, so its not a major issue.

@AaronWIlson second what Killax said. 10 x flesh hounds will do way more for you in that list over the second unit of Blood warriors.

@Retro dont have a link but if you search "AOS coach" on YouTube it will come up

@sambaker31 seen a lot of ppl recommend magnetising your bloodthirster so you can try the different options at will. Also, unless your local meta is super strict on not using proxies etc, just build him whichever way you think looks best and use him as whichever thirster you want each game. Just be sure to explain to your opponent that he counts as X and there shouldnt be any issues. Or buy 2! 😉

Now that is a really interesting stat! Last night I watched the new AOS Coach youtube show where Matt Campbell was interviewed and ran through each of his 6 games. There were 2 or 3 games where Matt admitted to feeling he was going to lose and fully admitted he had some good priority rolls and was well versed at objective play compared to some of his opponents. So yeah, Khorne definitely does not need nerfing in any way shape or form with a buff to the allegiance ability being the most needed change. Especially once GW get around to making all mortal wound abilities go off on unmodified 6 (an effective debuff to skullreapers among others) which we pretty much know will happen eventually.

I would never get to to 8! Would either be using 2 for an auto unbind or 3 for a hero phase movement, then using whatever left over points to summon a bloodmaster, 5 x blood letters or 5 x flesh hounds (you know, just like every other army with summoning in addition to allegiance abilities). It would have to be a straight bloodbath for a couple of turns in order for me to generate 8 without spending any. All that being said, now that Khorne has won Cancon GW may very well decide that no changes are needed or even that more debuffs are needed. Or the cycle of model sales will continue and Khorne will get buffed so people start buying blood letters again.

@Retro its true, we are the only summoning army both with a cap and unable to bank unspent points and it really sucks. However I do feel that without a cap it might become a little OP, given the nature of the game is to kill things we are always going to generate blood tithe whereas some other summoning armies have slightly harder conditions to meet in order to generate points. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has run the Exalted Bloodthirster and thereby increased their cap limit to 16 to see how that played out.

@Retro 100% agree. Even with the 8 cap, just being able to bank unspent tithe would give us so much more flexibility and allow for both summoning and an ability in the same turn. We live in hope I guess...

I know we already said it however HOW GOOD to see khorne win Cancon 2019?!?!?!?!?! I watched the final game on the Honest Wargamer's youtube channel yesterday (cant say I'm a fan of that battle report format but thats for another time) which was against a super shooty Kharadron army with 2 x units of Evocators as allies. Obviously a very surprising tournament decider given neither army is regarded as top tier, or even top of mid-tier. In the past I often ran a gore pilgrims list with a single bloodthirster and 30 blood letters. In this case he ran gore pilgrims with a second thirster and 10 x Skullreapers however the army plays similar so I was most interested in how he used the 2 thirsters and especially how he used blood tithe. In this game the Insensate Rage thirster was sent in for the alpha strike first turn and did a ton of damage to several arkanaught units before getting shot to pieces however it served its purpose of distracting their shooting for a turn while he moved into position (I believe the correct term is "distraction carnifex"). The WoK thirster was used more for surgical strikes and wasnt killed until turn 5. Most interesting was blood tithe which was used 3 times throughout the battle and each time to move a unit in the hero phase, twice in his turn and once in the opponent's turn. This clever use of extra movement allowed him to better position for charges later in the turn, screening the opponent or taking objectives. He won the game fairly convincingly although the KO player made a massive error in not retreating the gunship onto an open objective instead of leaving it combat with the bloodthirster however dont think that was game deciding. Had the KO player won a double turn before turn 4 it also might have been more brutal however you would expect that from a gunline list and certainly takes nothing away from a really well played match by the khorne player who was pretty much faultless. So far I have no idea how he used blood tithe in the other 5 games although the commentators mentioned at one point that he hadnt done much summoning all tournament. Essentially the game is about objectives meaning movement is key so I'm not surprised that the top player(s) would use it in this way. I guess what remains disappointing for me in relation to blood tithe is that you would almost certainly get as many if not more hero phase movements from the Grand Alliance Destruction allegiance ability in a 5 turn game then the 3 managed by the world's best khorne player in a tournament final. I guess what blood tithe offers is flexibility in terms of what benefit you get from the allegiance ability however given several other armies get special abilities as well as the ability to summon I still find it an extremely lacking allegiance ability, especially for a battletome army.

Have the unused riders hanging off the side of the shrine, as if its crawling with blood letters.

@Retro go for it! Sounds like a good conversion and cant see anyone getting upset about the clubbed fists. I have an idea about putting Juggernaughts under mine so no clubbed fists there!

No worries @Killax and great to see you posting again! It seems you take the khorne nerfs harder than anyone! I see you've included 10 x flesh hounds in both lists. Can I claim influence for this? I can definitely vouch for their effective although being near a khorne daemon hero for that unbind reroll is pretty handy and something that is missing from your gore pilgrims list. Although I dont own and so have never used a warshrine the syncing with gore pilgrims seems obvious and I will definitely be running a list like that when I eventually get mine. I'm a big fan of Immense Power and Deathdealer on my Wraith of Khorne Bloodthirster and have won games due to the extra damage he causes. Brazen Rune is a must for when you dont want to leave a crucial unbind to chance. I've never used mine for the magic protection ability, only ever for the auto dispel so am usually happy with it being on my bloodsecrator. Gyrstrike is the most notable malign sorcery artifact however give the WoK thirster already wounds on 2+ its a waste on him. This might be controversial but Im not sure you will get that much benefit from the bloodsecator in the blood hunt. You have lots of unbinding options in the list and most of the units are fast and so might get out of range. If he is going to hang back and support the marauders then blood reavers would be a better option given they would benefit from the totem keyword as well. I think you are probably right about the synergy with the bloodletters so they should probably stay in.

Played a couple of casual 1000 point games against Tzeentch yesterday with an experimental list which ended up performing quite well. We randomly generated scenarios but left the table set up in the same way to mimic tournament conditions. No realm rules were used. He was running the following: Ogroid Gaunt Summoner 20 x Tzangor 20 x Acolytes 10 x Acolytes (Game 1) / 10 x Pink Horrors (Game 2). I ran the following: Bloodstoker (General, Violent Urgency, Brazen Rune) Slaughterpriest (Killing Frenzy) Karanak Scyla Anfingrimm 10 x Flesh Hounds 10 x Flesh Hounds (Game 1) / split into 2 x 5 in Game 2 5 x Chaos Knights - Glaives I wanted to take advantage of the unbind buff flesh hounds get for units of 10, and keep my drops down to try and have say over going first or not. My opponent ended up with less drops anyway however the multitude of ways I had to shut down magic was highly effective. 10 x Flesh Hounds put out 40 attacks and when buffed with killing frenzy and stoked they can really put the hurt on, particular against enemy chaff. Game 1: Shifting Objectives Highlights / Points of Note Karanak successfully unbinding a spell and putting 2 mortal wounds on his Quarry (the Ogroid), but dieing to a swarm of Acolytes before he got to attack or summon 😞 He gave me first turn so I moved up the minimum amount to claim all 3 objectives, my opponent then moved up to charge my units on all three but failed, perfectly setting me up to charge next turn and sweep them away. However he won the double turn at which point I thought I was toast (he rolled 2 and I 1 and I was shook for a few moments there); He made all his charges this time but made a key tactical error; he chose to attack with the Acolytes on the right flank first which allowed 10 x flesh hounds to fight first against 20 Tzangor on the left flank. Granted the Acolytes killed Karanak before he got to fight but my hounds decimated the Tzangor, killing 9 of them and losing only 4 in return. Had the Tzangors wiped those hounds they then could have swept across the board, taking the centre objective before pinning me to one side. The flesh hounds held that side and eventually won the objective back while I won the grind for the other 2 over the next 2 melee phases; Chaos Knights with glaives were built for slaughtering Acolytes so I sent them after the unit on the right and they did just that, exacting revenge for the slaying of Karanak. I summoned 5 x Bloodletters with the intention of babysitting the centre objective since the knights had moved away however they made their charge into the small unit of Acolytes in the centre which was an unexpected bonus as it helped finish off that small unit and free up my units in the centre. Scyla Anfingrim proved his worth, using his 6" pile in ability to get in position and take the Ogroid down to 1 wound. The game was over when I won priority in round 3 and Scyla finished off the Ogroid and remaining Acolytes, I summoned another unit of 5 x bloodletters who could help finish the remaining 2 tzangor in case the hounds couldnt, leaving only the Gaunt Summoner and a massive lead on VP already. I shut down my opponents only spell before he called it after his hero phase. Game 2: Escalation Highlights / Points of Note This battle plan favoured me as I knew I could easily kill any units he moved onto objectives with any of my units. I think the key tactic with Escalation, particularly in low point games, is to focus on 2 objectives. As long as you hold 2 to your opponent's 1 you can't lose. My opponent set up to threaten all Three; 20 x Acolytes and Ogroid on my left, 20 x Tzangors in the centre and 10 x Pink Horrors on my right supported by the Gaunt Summoner. I put 10 x flesh hounds on the right with Karanak (the Summoner was my quarry this time), 2 x 5 flesh hounds in the centre and knights on my left. He took first turn, sat the Acolytes on the left objective, ran and charged with the tzangors such that they killed one unit of 5 hounds and capped the centre objective while the horrors couldnt quite get to the right objective and so hunkered down in arcane cover; I responded by moving my knights into position on the left but held them back for the double turn, charged the tzangors with Scyla Anfingrim, failed the charge with the other 5 hounds but they claimed the centre objective so not all bad, moved the 10 hounds on the right up to the objective and Karanak behind them but failed my charges. My rolls were horrendous followed by rolling snake eyes for Scyla's 2D6 attacks however hardly any tzangor could pile in back at him so he survived. I lost priority round 2 but it mattered little; the Acolytes tried to charge my knights but failed, the tzangors continued hacking at Scyla but he held out, then rolled 11 for his attacks which was about 15 with wounds taken, while the Pink Horrors shot at the hounds for one wound and declined to charge. I stopped whatever magic the Gaunt Summoner attempted and in the end he only held onto the left hand objective. Round 2 for me was glorious as the knights with killing frenzy and stoked charged into the acolytes, 5 hounds joined Scyla against the Tzangors, the 10 hounds charged the horrors and Karanak charged his quarry, the Gaunt Summoner. After the dust cleared the Acolytes were destroyed, the Tzangor had one model left, the Gaunt Summoner was dead (after Karanak just survived his Warptongue blade attack) and the Pink Horrors were reduced to half strength. I held all 3 objectives with only the Ogroid remaining. We rolled for Round 3 priority which I won and immediately called it there. I didnt end up using any bloodtithe, having only accumulated 3 by the time we called it. Final Thoughts Scyla Anfingrim is handy! Would really benefit from Killing Frenzy and/or being stoked. The special pile in is great for getting heroes who think they are safe behind the lines and he has enough attacks to kill most 5 wound heroes. Flesh hounds in large numbers can do real work. They put out heaps of attacks which against some battleline is what you want and if you buff them things can get nasty. The +1 to unbind for larger units was handy. Outside of Gore Pilgrims/Brass Stampede they are probably our best battleline. As with previous recent 1000 point games my bloodtithe usage was minimal. If I didnt have a spell to unbind it would have been limited to some fairly inconsequential summoning in the first game. I still celebrate each time I earn a point but im not sure why... Didnt get to summon with Karanak, first game he was killed before he had the chance, second game he killed his quarry before getting the chance. The unbind was one and once he got the chance to fight he didnt disappoint.

What did you get?

My bad, range is still short though and the buffs pale in comparison to more fleshed out allegiances. And again, the main issue is with the other half of the allegiance ability.

True the aura effects aren't all bad however a 6" range is pretty limiting and the khorne buff especially is pretty useless for a lot of units, especially if you bring a warshrine. I was mostly referring to the eye of the gods allegiance ability which is highly situational with mild to weak benefits even when it does go off. And yes, the artifacts are all fairly average to poor.

In the meantime you can run Archaon with slaves units as Chaos Undivided allegiance. The slaves allegiance is trash anyway so you're not losing much.

@TheadTheOgorSlayer Choose allegiance at the start of writing your list. Within the Slaves to Darkness allegiance, most of the units may take a mark of a specific chaos god but that doesnt change their allegiance, it just opens them up to buffs. You can mix and match different god marks within the army while always remaining a slaves to darkness allegiance. You could have an entire Slaves to Darkness army, with Slaves allegiance, but everyone has the mark of khorne. You might then ally in a khorne bloodstoker whose whipped to fury ability can be used on anyone with the mark of khorne. The army would still be Slaves to Darkness, using those allegiance abilities and choosing traits/artifacts from the slaves tables. Alternatively you could run an army entirely composed of slaves to darkness units, all with the mark of khorne, and run them as khorne allegiance (the only requirement to run khorne allegiance is that all units have the mark of khorne, same goes for the other chaos gods). In this case you would use the khorne allegiance abilites and choose traits/artifacts from the khorne tables.

Whatever you do you cant go wrong with a bloodstoker or 2. You may find yourself out of range of the bloodsecrator. Maybe a second lord on juggernaut to spread the +1 wound around? A warshrine would go well if you have one. Maybe a unit or 2 of reavers or flesh hounds to cap objectives while your crushers do their thing.

True @Coyote however there is nothing in the Murderlust blood tithe ability description that specifies it to work at any other time other than the start of the hero phase.

@Sdrow unfortunately that trick won't work in the first turn since the FAQ Errata made it that blood tithe can only be expended at the START of either player's hero phase. Unfortunately once the slaughter priests have blood sacrificed someone the hero phase has started and the window for using blood tithe has closed. Conclusion: the restrictions on our allegiance ability, when compared to other armies, are a joke.

@123lac pics of Skullreapers with bloodwarrior legs as requested (apologies for poor photo quality):

@Zamik and anyone else who may be interested, I've written up a tournament review from the 1000 point event I attended yesterday. Check it out here;

For sure the Sword of Judgement could also work well as it appears hit rolls of 5+ would set off the D6 mortal wounds thanks to the Khorne mark. However for any non mortal wounds he would need 3+ to wound and with only 4 attacks I think I like the better odds provided by Gyrstrike.

LETHAL DAEMON PRINCE COMBO Due to my love of Bloodthirsters, Bloodstokers and maxed out Gore Pilgrims I almost never run a Daemon Prince in 2000 point games. No command ability is certainly a factor, however while crafting 1000 point lists for the upcoming tournament I'm going to I came across this combo and thought I would share it (I'm not claiming this at all btw however its too good not to share); Make Daemon Prince your General and obviously take Mark of Khorne Take the Axe instead of the Sword Mark of Khorne means both the Axe and his Claws now hit on 3+ instead of 4+ Make your army come from the Realm of Ghyran and give him Gyrstrike for +1 to hit and wound on the Axe Finally give him the Immense Power Command Trait for +1 Damage to all melee weapons The Resulting melee profile is; Axe = 4 / 2+ / 2+ / -2 / D3+1 Claws = 3 / 3+ / 3+ / - / 3 Total possible damage of 25 without buffing his attacks (Bloodsecrator alone would allow for a possible 7 additional damage). For real shenanigans and to really ensure his attacks go through you could ally in a Chaos Sorcerer Lord and cast Daemonic Power on him to reroll hits, wounds and saves of 1 (personally I don't like wizards in my Khorne army but to each their own). At the very least he is probably getting whipped by the Stoker on the turn he charges so will reroll wounds of 1. His 12" flight move makes him a good hero hunter however with this much damage potential you could confidently send him after most small to medium units. I'm 99% confident I will run him this way for the tournament and see what happens. Below is my current list; Allegiance: KhorneMortal Realm: GhyranDaemon Prince of Khorne (160)- General- Trait: Immense Power - Artefact: Ghyrstrike Aspiring Deathbringer (80)- Bloodaxe and Wrath HammerBloodstoker (80)Slaughterpriest (100)5 x Blood Warriors (100)- Goreaxes5 x Flesh Hounds (100)5 x Chaos Knights (160)- Chaos Glaives5 x Skullreapers (170)- Daemonblades- 1x SoultearersTotal: 950 / 1000Extra Command Points: 1