Agent of Chaos

@feadair I would say Chaos Lord. He might be slow but he can keep up with the chaos warriors and getting them to attack twice will help the offensive output immensely.

I like a lord on mount/karkadrak + Knights with Glaives (10 is great but 5 is good) + Bloodstoker + Khorne. Biggest weakness with glaives is hitting on 4+ so Lord's CA helps with that. The +3" from the stoker, +1" from the musician and reroll charge means they will get where they need to and rerolling wounds ensures those crucial glaive attacks get through. If you can ally in a Bloodsecrator and/or the Doom Sigil for extra attacks its brutal. Bonus points for Ruinbringer warband for extra mortal wounds on the charge. Word of warning on the marauder + stoker + teleport combo; its super hard to pull off because the stoker's ability weirdly goes off at the start of the movement phase at which point the marauders have already been teleported.

Cheers! All good suggestions. Right now I don't have a 2nd Gaunt or Blue Scribes to field. Khorne DP is an option. TBH the marauders in this list are the sacrifice unit. I think a warcry unit would be ideal but I don't have one. Any other artefact suggestions?

Looking for comments on my new Cabalist List. If I have a good magic phase then I think this list has the potential to do quite well. Might get a sprinkling of mortal wounds from the Warshrine battalion as well. All comments are welcome but mostly I'm interested in recommendations for my 2 artifacts as I really don't know what to take. This list doesn't have much use for CP or melee weapons; are there any artifacts out there that boost spell casting or generally help a magic oriented army? I could go the Cabalist items for a once-per-battle auto unbind and auto succeed on a ritual but wondering if there are better options out there? Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness- Damned Legion: CabalistsLeadersChaos Sorcerer Lord (110)- General- Command Trait: Mighty Ritualist- Artefact: ??????- Mark of Chaos: Undivided- Spell: Whispers of ChaosChaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)- Artefact: ???????- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle- Spell: Binding DamnationBe'Lakor (240)- Spell: Mask of DarknessGaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)- AlliesBattleline20 x Chaos Marauders (150)- Axes & Shields- Mark of Chaos: Undivided15 x Chaos Warriors (300)- Halberd & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)- Javelin & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Undivided5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)- Javelin & Shield- Mark of Chaos: UndividedBehemothsChaos Warshrine (170)- Mark of Chaos: UndividedBattalionsGodswrath Warband (180)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsDarkfire Daemonrift (50)Aethervoid Pendulum (50)The Burning Head (30)Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (30)Malevolent Maelstrom (10)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 240 / 400Wounds: 112

Very interesting list but if you're looking for weaknesses... 2 x judgements with only one priest seems ambitious. 9 x juggers is a huge footprint. 2 units like that could lead to all sorts of issues with deployment. I dont think 3 units of hounds is enough to screen both units and if they get tagged on both ends they will be all but useless. Daemon Prince will help prevent you from getting charged though so might be OK.

I find it hard to go past Dimensional Blade on his axe and Hew the Foe benefits his sword as well. I dont know if a 5+ FNP is better then that combo, given he already has a 5+ against mortals and at the expense of the slaughterhost. I really like the sword of judgement with the chaos lords flail. Has the potential to be a real hero slayer. However I could swap it out for something better. What artifact would you suggest is worth not running Goretide?

I dont expect to the use the command ability much so its mostly for Hew the Foe on the Lord on Karkadrak, and rerolling 1's near objectives. Torc on the bloodsecrator is pretty nice too.

Nothing cheesy about it mate. Hard to be cheesy with Slaves, especially in 1K points. However it looks like you are running it as Nurgle Allegiance, as opposed to Nurgle marked slaves allegiance... is that right?

No Way can Gaunt Summoner go down given he auto summons a 200 point unit of Horrors. Everything else on the list looks fair. Chariots need to come way down to be remotely worth taking. Warriors down to 80 seems right, or give them -1 rend for hand weapons and they can prob stay at 100.

@@sabres1226 welcome! @readercolin has given a really good summary of the faction and has asked the all important question; what do you want out of it? To be competitive (even semi competitive) we are pretty much forced into the super elite Archaon legion or spamming marauders. If you are fine with those options then you should feel like you have an even chance in any game you play. If you want a fluffier style list then its generally a struggle against the majority of opponents. My 2c would be that the army has all of the tools needed to be competitive and all of the fluff to be interesting. The reasons behind the bad press is the fluff doesn't really reflect how the army plays on the table (Marauders being way better than warriors, mixed god armies not synergising, etc), you can't run all of the competitive tools in the same list making an all-comers list near impossible, and most of the tools have limitations that make them difficult to use when you really need them, such as; Awesome spells (including teleport) but with high casting values and short ranges; The ability to buff casting via a specific legion, but still requires a prayer roll that might only result in a +1 to cast. This build also comes with substantial limitations to the army's melee power meaning if you don't spike damage in the magic phase you are in for a tough time; Free buffs from auras but wholly within 12" range can be punishing. Many units rely on the charge to do decent damage (knights, chariots, etc) meaning you either move outside your buff range or move your buffing hero into an exposed position; Really powerful command abilities on some heroes but no inherent way of generating extra CP; Ability to summon (from a specific legion) but costs CP in an army already starved for them- see above point. Also the summoning legion doesn't support Daemon Princes and does nothing to buff casting; Daemon Princes are excellent backfield hero hunters but then don't get to roll on the Eye of the Gods table; Despoilers Legion rewards you for taking multiple Daemon Princes but then none of the Battalions allow more then one; Some battalions are decent, all are expensive and none of them support more than one hero in an army that wants to run multiple heroes for the buffs (apart from the God specific battalions which are mortal only so no Daemon Princes...); Chaos Warriors want to be taken in big units to maintain their resiliency but then suffer from being on 32mm bases in terms of staying within auras and getting models in range to fight. Also at 300 pts for 15, you are way better off running 40 Marauders; Interesting fluffy units such as the Warcry warbands, Darkoath heroes, etc can't take god marks or give/receive buffs and so dont synergise with other units; Warshrines are awesome support units but there is no way to buff or reroll the prayer roll. Essentially its a real puzzle of an army and a challenge to be competitive in every game, requiring very careful movement and thoughtful placement of buff pieces. Even when you play perfectly it can still feel like your opponent's army just has more bang for the same buck. If that sounds like your kind of army then go for it! If you prefer the simpler Iron Jaws/Ogres/Daughters of Khaine style of play, or the reliable magic of Death/Tzeentch then it might not be for you.

Many on here have suggested Cabalists might be our strongest build but its a tough nut to crack. I watched a battle report last night; Slaves (Ravagers) vs Gloomspite and saw the power of the Darkfire Daemonrift. Even if your opponent doesnt have wizards and/or isnt throwing endless spells, if you throw enough of your own endless spells out there along with a few of your own wizards then the Daemonrift can be ridiculous. With this in mind I had a stab at a Cabalist list using the Fatesworn Warband, giving me another spell with decent range and making the army 2 drops. I've got 5 endless spells in there and the sorcerer general has the trait to make the casting ritual succeed on 2+ (I imagine the marauders will be the sacrificial unit). The army lacks melee power but will hopefully make up for it with a deluge of mortal wounds from endless spells. It also aims to frustrate the opponent's movement with things like Be'lakor, Binding Damnation & Realmscourge Rupture, not to mention a screen of endless spells to get through. Mark of Tzeentch will help my units survive any endless spells that get turned back against me. No idea what artifacts would be good for this list. None of the Cabalist ones were particularly appetizing except maybe the auto unbind one. Not sold on the battalion but I do think this army wants to go first and get all its endless spells out early- or is it better to let the opponent come to you and then smash em with spells, maybe even get the double turn (obviously no good against alpha striking armies). Dropping the battalion allows another caster and maybe a unit of cultists for sacrificing. Thoughts? Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness- Damned Legion: CabalistsLeadersChaos Sorcerer Lord (110)- General- Command Trait: Mighty Ritualist- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch- Spell: Binding DamnationChaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch- Spell: Ruinous VigourBe'Lakor (240)- Spell: Mask of DarknessChaos Sorcerer Lord (110)- Command Trait: Mighty Ritualist- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch- Spell: Whispers of ChaosBattleline20 x Chaos Marauders (150)- Axes & Shields- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch15 x Chaos Warriors (300)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)- Javelin & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)- Javelin & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)- Javelin & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)- Flails- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)- Flails- Mark of Chaos: TzeentchBattalionsFatesworn Warband (180)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsDarkfire Daemonrift (50)Realmscourge Rupture (60)Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (30)Prismatic Palisade (30)The Burning Head (30)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1

I would keep both priests for sure. If all the warriors do is screen then I would drop them for 2 x 5 hounds. One unit of hounds provides the same screening footprint leaving you with a spare unit to screen or objective camp. The extra daemons will benefit from the bloodthirster locus and cant run from battleshock. If you want even more bodies then maybe drop the wrathmongers for 2 x 10 reavers, or even just swap the wraith axe and your spare 10pts for 10 reavers. How do you use bloodtithe in this list? Are you summoning alot to make up for your lack of bodies or do you just use the abilities on the bloodthirsters?

Cheers for the thoughts guys. Would love a Bloodstoker in there but every unit is needed for the battalion. I could drop a unit of knights for 5 warriors and the Stoker. Less killing power but more blood tithe... hmm I hear you on the chaos lord and having hims as the goretide general is an interesting idea for sure but I really wanted the Karkadrak to be a beatstick as the list lacks hammers. The chaos lord probably would get more out of Thermalrider cloak but then I cant take Dimensional Blade or Sword of Judgement on the karkadrak. He will just have to run really fast and keep up!

Thanks mate. The Chaos Lord counts as the 8th hero so the battalion checks out. I've been playing khorne a few years now so familiar with all the tricks you mentioned. I'd love to throw the skulls in but I need the spawn for the battalion. Might give the list a run one day and see how it goes.

Looks pretty good to me. If I wasn't taking Be'lakor than a warshrine and some chosen is a good trade. Why Despoilers though? Wouldnt you get more out of Ravagers? Only Daemon Prince Generals can take the Despoilers Command Traits.

What does your usual list look like?

I'd only just realised the limitation on daemonic power and now you point that out 😞 Thanks though. That pretty much eliminates the need for a 2nd sorcerer lord.

@JackStreicher D3 from diabolic mantle 🙂

@Gistradagis @Kurrilino Thank you both for the feedback and thoughts on my list. I'm one of those that would have benefited greatly if the power units of the new tome were warriors, knights & chariots. For now I only own 20 marauders, no warshrine, no manticore lords, endless spells or warcry stuff, and like many on this thread am trying to make it work so any and all advice is appreciated 🙂 I actually played a game (Escalation vs Beasts of Chaos) before I saw your comments (only variation being to swap out the knights for another unit of marauder horsemen and furies). We didnt finish but even with a couple of turns played it was fair to say you were pretty much spot on with your assessments. My marauders sat behind my warriors ready to counter charge but plan A was always to teleport them and charge onto whichever edge objective was weaker. Unfortunately I never managed to cast mask of darkness 😞 Even if I cast it turn 3 or 4, by then its too late as Im way down on points. The chaos lord was there to make the counter punching marauders fight twice (didnt eventuate), or give extra punch to the warriors holding the objective (used once and as expected the warriors were mediocre twice). I liked Be'lakor for general for the 4+/ 5+/ 6+ but it was probably unnecessary as once his ability has gone off he isnt much of a target for the opponent. I also feel I put too much faith in the Undivided mark. The 6+ FNP came up a couple of times but didnt really matter. However I do think there is value in battleshock immunity, especially in an army that is clearly hungry for CP while needing to run heaps of low bravery models, even warriors are only 6 and even without needing inspiring presence I started turn 1 with 5CP and had used them all by turn 2. I liked being able to cast (attempt to cast anyway) daemonic power and something else each turn, and giving out reroll saves to 2 units, but maybe it is a bit much with Be'lakor as well. Given your thoughts on Call to Glory you may enjoy this... I cast it on the sword of judgement Daemon Prince, gave him reroll saves and popped his command ability, charged over the front lines and into the Doombull. Rolled 4 hits but only one 5 , causing 4 mortal wounds. I rerolled the 3 hits to fish for 5's & 6's (thanks to the dam spell) and rolled three 2's... My claw attacks managed another 2 wounds, leaving the Doombull on 2. He obliterated me in return, enabling his Bullgors to make a charge they would have failed had the DP done his job 😞 Meanwhile the other DP with an axe needed two turns to kill a 6 wound chariot. The Daemon Princes lack killing power (along with most of the army it seems) and Despoilers might be a trap build. Be'lakor and one khorne DP for the sweet command ability might be all thats needed in which case Ravagers might be the better option. I have gone the Ethereal Amulet DP before and he was tanky but I had heard good things about sword of judgement and dont know if Ive given up that build just yet. Problem is you want the khorne DP hanging back for the awesome command ability, not suicidal charging over the front lines into enemy heroes. Theres a good slaves list in here for me somewhere guys but Im still struggling...

Tooling around with the Blood Marked Warband. With so many mortal slaves units required its hard to fit much killing power into the list so went for MSU to generate a bunch of bloodtithe... reckon this list has legs? Allegiance: Khorne - Slaughterhost: The Goretide Mortal Realm: Ulgu Leaders Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250) - General - Command Trait: Hew the Foe - Artefact: Dimensional Blade Chaos Lord (110) - Daemonbound War-flail - Artefact: Sword of Judgement Bloodsecrator (120) - Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice Battleline 20 x Chaos Marauders (150) - Axes & Shields 5 x Blood Warriors (100) - Goreaxes 10 x Bloodreavers (70) - Reaver Blades Units 5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90) - Javelin & Shield 5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90) - Javelin & Shield 5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90) - Javelin & Shield 5 x Chaos Knights (180) - Cursed Lance 5 x Chaos Knights (180) - Ensorcelled Weapons 1 x Slaves to Darkness Chaos Spawn (50) Battalions Gore Pilgrims (140) Bloodmarked Warband (180) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 2 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 137

I do, although B'elakor would be a proxy but I'm not going to a tournament so wont be an issue.

Looking for advice on a Despoilers List I'm crafting; trying to maximise the benefits by taking 3 x DP (one being B'elakor). Theory is Belakor and 20 warriors hold an objective, hopefully the centre, and should be really hard to shift with reroll saves, 6+ shrug and battleshock immunity (and if anyone wants to target Belakor he has 4+ ethereal, 5++, 6++ and Look Out Sir, plus two potential ways to heal!). Any unit that comes close to him risks being made to fight last with -1 to wound rolls. The Mask of Darkness sorcerer will be nearby in case someone needs teleporting and to give Belakor reroll saves. Prince with sword of judgement goes hero/monster hunting with a screen of marauder horsemen. Before charging in I'll hopefully get the Call to Glory spell off on him (having observed that Daemonic Power only works on Mortals, I now see the point of the Call to Glory spell). This DP is the hero from the Godsworn battalion so he might even get to fight in my hero phase. The other Prince will be screened by the knights and are there to generally make a nuisance of themselves. Both khorne princes will be popping their command ability at every opportunity to really frustrate my opponent. Chaos Lord and the marauders will hang back as a second wave / counter strike. Decided to go Undivided mark with these guys as I figured battleshock immunity and potential 6+ shrug would be more useful then rerolling 1's to hit, especially since they will hopefully be fighting twice. I know the battalion is average but as Diabolic Mantle is my second artifact its essentially giving 2 CP, possibly 3 or 4 CP. and takes me from 10+ drops to 6. Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness- Damned Legion: DespoilersMortal Realm: UlguLeadersBe'Lakor (240)- General- Spell: Binding DamnationSlaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)- Axe- Artefact: Diabolic Mantle- Mark of Chaos: KhorneSlaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)- Sword- Artefact: Sword of Judgement- Mark of Chaos: KhorneChaos Sorcerer Lord (110)- Mark of Chaos: Undivided- Spell: Mask of DarknessChaos Sorcerer Lord (110)- Mark of Chaos: Undivided- Spell: Call to GloryChaos Lord (110)- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel- Mark of Chaos: UndividedBattleline20 x Chaos Warriors (400)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Undivided20 x Chaos Marauders (150)- Axes & Shields- Mark of Chaos: Undivided5 x Chaos Knights (180)- Ensorcelled Weapons- Mark of Chaos: Khorne5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)- Javelin & Shield- Mark of Chaos: UndividedBattalionsGodsworn Champions of Ruin (180)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Wounds: 125

@Ravinsild warriors, knights and chaos lords are all viable in Khorne allegiance as it opens them up to buffs from slaughterpriests (+1 to hit, +1 to save), rerolling wounds and bonus movement (Bloodstoker) and lots of extra attacks from Bloodsecrator, Wrathmongers and Aspiring Deathrbingers. If you take a warshrine it can have a Blood Blessing Prayer making it even more useful. However you lose STD aura abilities so no easy access to reroll 1's to hit and no +1 to wound. You will also have a hard time casting any buff spells such as Daemonic Power from an allied Sorcerer Lord (and wont have access to the STD spells). Chaos Warriors offer a tanky alternative to the more offensive Blood Warriors, however Blood Warriors are needed for most mortal khorne battalions and neither unit is particularly cheap. Chaos Warriors with dual weapons can be good offensively, especially with a bloodstoker to reroll everything, but lack of rend hurts them. The rune shields can be a pain for some armies, some of the time. Knights fill a role for khorne in being the fastest heavy cavalry option and with glaives giving the army some rare -2 rend. You can put a lot of buffs on the unit and they can do a ton of damage but wont do much after the initial charge. Ensorcelled weapons generally perform better over the length of the game. Certain Khorne command traits and artifacts can really buff the Lord on Karkdrak, but losing +1 to wound from STD aura hurts. Regular lord on mount is good to support knights with his command ability but wont do much more then that. Lord on foot is great for the fight twice but will struggle to keep in range of knights and warriors fighting twice is a bit pointless unless they have dual weapons and a few buffs on them. The jury is still out but it might actually be better to run STD allegiance with mark of khorne and ally in the support pieces. Slaughter Priests cant take prayers outside khorne allegiance and you wont have the altar for rerolls so I wouldn't bother with them. Best allies would be a Bloodsecrator, Bloodstoker and maybe some Wrathmongers. You lose out on bloodtithe and summoning daemons but you get the Khorne Aura and are probably running Ravagers with this build so you're summoning marauders. Your Sorcerers have access to the STD spells and as long as they stay more than 16" from the bloodsecrator wont have any issues.

@TheadTheOgorSlayer tricky question. The Skulls warscroll does not specifically prevent rerolls- it just says that on an unmodified 8 the spell is unsuccessful. So you would argue that as the spell was unsuccessful, due to the skulls, you can reroll the casting attempt. However if the spell would have been successful on an 8 then it could also be argued that your roll was successful and therefore you cant reroll it, and then the skulls kick in to make it fail. The Khorne FAQ doesnt cover this scenario. Anybody else know how to resolve this?

Just the other day I wondering if Flayed would get used and you may have just cracked it! I think your list has a lot of potential to do really well.