Myrdin
-
Posts
616 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Store
Downloads
Blogs
Events
Everything posted by Myrdin
-
A question about allies. Since we can ally ourselves only with Slave of Darkness, does that mean I cannot take anything other from the grand alliance Chaos / Monster of Chaos roster ? I wanted to add some skin wolves to my beastmen, because I think they look very cool (I still dont understand how these things are not part of our roster, .... I know I know, same like with preyton, they are a FW release). Since we have Monsters of Chaos in our army, does that mean I can bring some of the FW stuff ? Like Preytons and Skin wolves ? Or is the ally system so ....*insert favorite cuss word* that even if its a thing like Preyton which is literally a unit that fits our army like butter fits a toast, I cannot take it ? **For friendly games I dont think people will care, since those two (Preyton and Skin wolves), are looking so much "Beast of Chaos" like that people would actually ask me why are they NOT part of our BoC faction than the opposite. But I just wanted to know if I can bring them legally. Seeing as Monsters of Chaos are part of our army and all. *again - if the answer is no.... wtf GW, the person responsible for our Alliences, needs to be thrown to the boars or something... ?
-
Allright so on the Bullgor viability. In a 1500 game I tried a unit of 6 with a DB, runnigh the Brass Bull Battalion. Opponent got lucky and managed to charge them with his 9 ....paladins ? Dudes with shields-hammers and special dudes with Dmg 2 weapons in the mix. They were not able to fully pile in, leaving 3 guys out of the strike zone. Killed 3 Bullgors. The remaining 3 (one was a champion) killed about 2/3 of that unit and broke it via Battleshock. What people seem to ignore when it comes to Bullgors is the fact that they have -2, DMG 3 weapons. Yes 2 attacks is relatively meek, thats why you need a DB and Ideally you want to run them either ina Brass Despoliers or Marauding Beastherd list to get some much needed hit multiplier onto their weak sauce 4+ But make no mistake. That -2 is a big deal and DMG 3 hurts anything, be it elites, monsters or mass infantry. In comparison, Bestigors dish out more hits, and wounds in general, but being DMG1 and only -1 rend, there are some targets that you dont want want them in (though the saying "throw enough ....poop.... on the wall and some of it sticks does work here. Its the same with how Witch Elves deal with stuff). Personally though, I found out that sometimes its better to use Doombulls buff on himself. Especially if you use Gnarled Blade (viable choice if its a KhorneBull due to the rerolls), or the Brass Cleaver Axe. 3 Attacks rerrolling 1, Wounding on 2 (if you REALLY need something dead you can use the Once per Battle Wound reroll from Brass Desp.) -3 (really big deal, as most of the stuff wont be saving against this. Only the best of the best will get a 6+) and 5 dmg each. That DB removes things. Anything that has less than 15 wounds and 3+ is in risk of getting "one turn, one kill"-ed. But back to the bullgors - They can work, and they can be pretty scary. But unlike let say Bestigors Enlightened or Dragon Ogors (who are amazing as a cheap tank unti that just looks scary and soaks all the ranged damage with relative ease), they require more babysitting. Personally my issue with them is not really the stat line, or weapons, but the fact that they have 1" Range. By sheer logic and rules consistency with similar units, if we are talking about a Bullgor, with TWO HANDED WEAPONS, that reach should be much bigger. If a paladin dude with a two handed mace can have 2" Range so should have Bullgors who are towring over him. The bigger price tag doesnt really do them favors either, when there are things that straight out outcompete them in their vanila form (as in: no buffs applied). So yeah they can work, but you need to have another big threats in yoru army, less they get focused down quickly. And if you can buff them, be it via Chaos Spawn, or Bloodsecrator, they get scary real fast. **As for "Can I ally with Blades of Khorne" discussion.... so can we ? or can we not ? It was to my understanding that the FAQ amended this for specific God battalions, so I will be really surprised to find out its still not a viable choice (and here is the ****** moment when you consider the massive oversight the writers of this book did. Beast of Chaos should be able to ally with any other Chaos faction, spare maybe Skaven. Be it mortals or demons)
-
So you assume my assesment is incorrect because I didnt specify that 1 out of 3 is wortwhile while one is pure rubbish, and one is half rubbish half usefull. Well.... fine, I mean feel free to disagree I suppose. But since I have to, I´ll specify what I particullarly meant below. Considering I was speaking in general terms, and was addresing Allherd as the one in most need of adjusting, I dont think its reasonable to bundle all I said as wrong. As far as Gavespawn goes I agree that its the only one without massive direct shorcomings. I would still say the Range of the Spawn ability should have been 16/18" if it is to be "fully within" (considering how slow Spawns are), and the "on roll of one you suffer a mortal Wound" thing on Gnarlblade REALLY doesnt need to be there. But still those are minor changes when compared to how worthless the Allheard is in general, and how both the item and ability of Darkwalkers is "Yai, a once per game item that goes off ony 50% of the time, and deals whole whopping D3 mortal wounds" and "+1 to run, while wholly within 12 of this general". Utter trash. The other two effects the Darkwalkers come with are somewhat good (from my perspective).
-
As for the Gors - I mentioned this before but they are pretty much just naked Bestigors. Giving them 2A base and keeping the big mob rule for one more if you run a beefy unit is all these guys need to jump from "below ungor" to "above ungor, below bestigor". As for God touched Bestigors - I am all up for that. Khorngors could hit better + the keyword. Pestigors could either get better save or force a -1 to hit when being targeted by enemy + the keyword. And I really like the idea of Slaangors being M7 instead of M6, otherwise same stats, but get to Pile in 6" instead of 3. That one in particullar would be great for non MSU Slaangor units. + the keyword And of course with that in mind each of the God battalions would have to reflect the unit. Honestly I was just lamenting how bad the Greatfrays and most of the Battalions are. Every single one of the GreatFrays comes with some sort of stupid "debuff" that hurts you more than what you get. Example: Allherd. Change the wording -1 Battleshock. Sentence ends, no same turn BS 2 summoning points for 1 command point > make it be worht a damn gdamt Friendly unit within 18" of General reroll charges. Sentence ends here, none of the 3" from enemy BS. The weapon add -1 to rend. -2 if Enemy unit is 10+ models. Done. Now it actually comes into play in the MSU heavy, SCE oversaturated meta ! Shocking I know. For the Battalions - none of them include any of the Monsters of Chaos, and this pisses me of. Why include the monsters just to completely exclude them from every single battalion ? As for the effects, drop the price if they are to be kept as they currently are. About 80 pts on avarage should do the trick for them to not be so overpriced for such little gain. *Alternatively I though wrote down some ideas about each of the God battalions being slightly changed (other than Khorne, that one is actually well put togahter. Though I would add more 0-X units and monster to it), where each of them would grant one small bonus, and one stronger "once per battle" bonus just like the Khorne one does. I think that would be pretty neat. Dont have the time to write it down right now.
-
I tried that but the problem I saw with it is as described above. They dont have any damage output, but being only a single model units of 6 W, dont hold out either. Its very easy even for ranged units (even more so if those units are of the tough sort like Stormcast for example) to remove one of them in combat. A unit of two however has plenty of durability to survive and tie the enemy unit long enough for your heavy hitters to get in.
-
So yesterday I was tinkering with some ideas and came up with some food for thought: Chariots First off - yeah, not that impressive. No impact hits, and pretty weak on their own. But then it occurred to me - if you take two of them in a single unit, you have a 12 W 4+ "pseudo monster" roadblock that costs 120 pts and is almost impervious to Battleshock (unless your roll 6 of course). They dont hit hard, but are fast and benefit from the Shaman extra movement. You can rush them forward and for 120 pts, those 12 wounds will be able to hold off quite a lot of heat. If you can get them into a a shooting unit, they will hold it for a very long time, even if its something like what SE have with their "shoot twice" nonsense. Yes they lack the punching power, but for a roadblock at those points they work much better than Gors or Ungors, and withstand Battleshock to a better degree. The only downside - and I honestly cant understand the reasoning behind this - is the stupid 120 mm base.... Srsly who though giving a relatively small chariot a 120 mm base that Goghons and Chimeras who are twice the size use, is a good idea ?! Also - not battle line. I feel like whoever was deciding our battle line units could have done a better job. Single chariots did not impress me. For holding objectives on my side I use Razorgors, but with what I am talking about above they might be a decent unit to tie stuff down. They are fast on the board (especially with the Shaman) but if you can ambush them somewhere around your opponents ranged units, while not killy enough, they threaten to tie them down for a very long time. I will to try and play around with the 2 man chariot units and see how it goes.
-
I really like both of your points honestly and I think a player like mysefl can take some words of wisdom from both. And I am not saying this just to butter you up Srsly, I like ambush and the psychological pressure it puts on the enemy. I also believe we have enough punch in some of our builds and units. Enlightened and Chimeras are the top of what we have. Bullgors can be scary but require a lot of external buffing to make them really work. I personally like the "threat" of MSU bestigors. A unit of 10 packs enough damage for the enemy to not ingore them when they pop out of ambush. And if they do ignore them they risk a charge that actually hurts, but if they charge them, they open themselves to your counter play. But at the same time, I can tell that we lack the sheer offensive morbidity (mostly due to lack of universal passive buffs that.... looking at you Beastlord and non existent Wargor BSB) like DoK have. Our stuff is split to "brayherds, warherds, this and that. No unified buffs with the keywords "Beast of Chaos" A 60 pts Hag can pray to buff, then toss the Witch brew on a unit, and suddenly your WE or SoS hit like a ton of bricks. We have no such a cheap trick like that. All the buffs we can get are through Allies who are mostly Khorne Bloodsecrators/stroker or a Chaos Sorc Lord, who is still rather dependent on that cast to pull it off. And none of these are cheap as options either. So while we do have good enough offense, it really aint at the level of insanity DoK can bring. Still, I think there are some unit combinations that pack enough threat. And what I think is amazing in our army is the cheap amount of chaff. In DoK your 10 (wo)men unit of Witch elves is your chaff. For us ? 40 pts Razorgor is the king of the hill, who run around and hold objectives. Take 3 and you have 18" deep strike denial zone. Chaos Warhounds while utter rubbish are great for this, since they are a 10 unit for 80 pts, who if stretched into a congo line can serve the same purpose but cover even more ground. Now granted - I am what poeple would call a casual scrub player My methods and tactics are not hammered out to perfection, nor is my ability to read and anticipate the board honed into a sharp keen sense. I just love to field waried rosters of cool beast demihumans and monstrosities. Doesnt mean I am not trying to win and build at least semi competitive lists. Of course I do. But its not to the point where I would consider all the difficult nuances of the Tournament scene, and try to min max the most optimal performance list. So everything I say comes with this mindset. Still as mentioned I like both of your wievs on the matter, and think a casual friendly semi competitive players like myself can find a balance in between what both of you say. I am very interested in finding out more about this. Could you maybe share some of your experience which units and used in what way are best to achieve the effects you mentioned here ?
-
That is an interesting way to look at them. In essence it is true, but at the same time also is the fact that they are way to expensive for just this. But there is nothing we can do about that. Would you be willing to extrapolate a little on the 1-2 drop armies ? Reading through this thread and some others, I have seen this being mentioned, but I am not sure how to correctly pull this off. As a BoC player, I want to play Ambushing units, since that directly plays into our strength. However if I want to do that, I cant really do a 1-2 drop army no ? Or no, let me rephrase that. Could you maybe advise how to pull a 1-2 drop army via battalions if I would like to make use of ambush as well ? (since we need a certain number of units on the table in order to ambush.)
-
Very interested in this as well. Good of you to bring that up ! *And yeah, I think most of our Warscroll Battalions are a joke (Khorne is decent, though quite expensive like the other ones, but if I had to choose one, this is my default go to battalion). All of them are expensive, but the problem is with the unit restrictions and selection. You cant even get creative (Nurgle battalion with MASS of single model units of Razorgors, shooting them like torpedos at targets of interest and doing single mortal wound once each pig dies.) with them. Really weak sauce, even more so when compared to the old Brayherd Wildstalker Brayherd mentioned above.
-
Guys can someone maybe explain to me the wording of the Marauding Brayherd ? "Add 1 to charge rolls for friendly BRAYHERD units from this battalion that were set up on the battlefield during the same turn." I am not sure how to interpret this. Does this mean the units from this Battalion get +1 charge on the first/second turn they enter board (either normal deploy or Ambush) ? For normal deployment > other than Centigors and maybe Chariots, this doesnt seem that good for a one time +1 to charge, especially if you deployed on the board, since you will still be far away. I can see this being somewhat interesting if you deploy via Ambush, shortening that 9" to 8" can make a difference. This would be nice for Enlightened maybe, but again, not part of the battalion. But the lack of synergies is just bad. If you could use the Doombull with +2" to Charge Artifact, then yeah, I can see this being an interesting choice, and maybe running him as Allherd to get the command trait to synergize (would have to set him on the board though). Other than Chronomantic Cogs (which is not guaranteed you can pull off) cast from a Shaman who is on the board, so that your ambushers can get +3 I dont see much use for this battalion. Especially if its only 1 time thing. If the price was 80-100 pts, and without such strict unit restriction, then it could have been good. Or am I missing something ?
-
Now that I think about it, I am pretty sure there were some chaos ogres somewhere on the internet. Although I think those were chaos Bullgryns for 40k, with a bit of bits swapping and a little greenstuff I think you might have a decent shot at what you are aiming for. Did trying different keywords (not in the AoS sense ) in Google yield any results ?
-
Edit: I missunderstood your comment. Damn and it was such a nice rant about 3rd party stuff too ! I would look for a 3D printed ones, that would be your best bet I suppose. Alternatively there are people who will for a fee make them for you in the graphic program used togather with 3D printing, and then send you the file so you can print them anywhere where there is a 3D printer . Since I think its still a decent topic I`ll just keep the rant below in under spoilers I will be "on topic ranting" here as far as the discussion of 3rd party > yes or no goes, a little so in order to save the space .... abra kadabra alakazam (dat pokemon reference ) ! Spoiler tab !
-
Took some pictures. Admittedly the light was bad so had to my table lamp. Anyway, here are the 5 centigors I am currently working on. As you can see they are still lacking this and that, since there is plenty of work to be done on the part where the two torsos were forged togather. 4 of them are different characters from Mierce Miniature, the last one is a tuskgor chariot crew member. The Mierce Mini beastmen are bit bulkier and gnarly looking and fit perfectly when combined with the Chaos Marauder horses, which are quite massive as far as horse mounts are considered. The results is these quite massive Centigors. They were ment to be used in 9thA, so they have all manner of weapons and non rectangular bases. Will be rebasing them for AoS though as I love the BoC in AoS more than Beastmen in 9thA (which still have the same shortcomings and problem Beastmen had back in the day when Warhammer Fantasy was still around.)
-
You just reminded me of the time I was converting my Jabber with some unusual bits. Had these tiny bat wings the size of a standard infantry model, and was thinking about this same thing you wrote here. After a long inner fight I decided to not go full silly mode and use the tiny bat wings on an over sized mutated gecko-frog or whatever Jabber is supposed to be. Used ones from a deamon prince (or something that size) instead. But the temptation was real and it was kinda cute (as cute as far one can consider this gribbly thing being cute) when I put them on him just temporarily just for the lolz
-
Interesting conversion. *thumbsup I did mine using Chaos Marauders horses, they are big and burly and make for great Centigor torsos. They are not finished by any stretch of imagination, but I´ll try to take a picture of mine to showcase. The marauder horses are great for this, but be carefull when handling them. Since they are "Chaos" they are of course "Spiky". Managed to puncture my finger on one of those spikes. Recommend cutting and filing them off before proceeding with converting the upper torse.
-
Right, so the only thing I found was the Errata, that states the spell has been removed and " Daemon Prince, keywords Add the Slaves to Darkness keyword to each set of Daemon Prince keywords. " Is that all the changes for him, or has there been any stat/weapon/abilities change thats not on the Errata as well ?
-
I downloaded the Warscrolll for DP from GW store. If thats supposed to be outdated, where can I find the new one ?
-
Ah, so that what it was. Yeah its kinda.... well... lame ? Browsing through the Blades of Khorne. I mean there are some sweet juicy bonuses, none of which are wholly within, and most of them usually have big circle of influence. 16/18" It really gives of the Berserker feel. Meanwhile bunch of our stuff is short ranged with 12" and wholly within. The problem I see here though is that Beastmen units are much more higher model count on average both per units and per army, then those of BoK. Even bunch of our spells are quite short ranged. Yeah and about them not willing to update these via errata.... GW attitude and way of doing things....lets not even go there. Thanks for the insight. I suppose the best thing to do is try to take advantage of allying with the older battletomes (those few we actually can ally with) who do not yet abide by this.
-
I took a look at his Warscroll and I must say, its appealing. Not exactly cheap, but one unit WITHIN 10" (why does all our stuff say WHOLLY WITHIN... I hope either an update or in the far far far away future book update this will be changed, as it makes little sense for Beastmen to be uniformly marching togahter.) can: -One unit can reroll saves of 1 -One unit within 18", on the cast of 5+ can reroll 1s for Hit, Wound and Saves .... amazing spell for a 5+ cast really. And you can mount him free of Charge on a horse..... (I smell an opportunity for Centigor Shaman conversion here ) so that he can keep up since he is slower and doesnt benefit from our Bray Shaman movement buff. 160 pts is pretty steep though. On the other hand, the buff does not require you to be of specific Chaos God Mark, unlike Bloodsecrator/stroker do. Yeah the Chaos Sorcerer is an interesting choice. Depending on what you build he might have a place in the army somewhere. ... Plus I think he can Summon a Demon Prince (written on the DP Warscroll ) on something like 9+
-
Wait... I thought only enemy Wizards trigger the Tzaan Icon ? Interesting. Which Chaos Sorceror are we talking about ? The Vanilla Slaves of Darkness one ? And what does mystic shield do ? Never seen one of these guys (though I suppose once SoD get a new battle tome some of the guys who run old Warriors of Chaos Armies might start playing again.)
-
Ok so a little recalculation on my part that hit me after a moment. Bloodstroker/secrator are not compatible with Tzaangors....Shocking I know ! I must have had a brainfart not noticing that haha~ And since Wargor BSB isnt legal, the infantry Tzaangors remain unbuffable via heroes (other than Tzaan shaman) and as such still way to overpriced for what they do (this is just my point of view, dont get angry). This is a stretch, but maybe, just maybe, running 20 of them with the great blades, with a chaos spawn in Gavespawn fray and a Shaman, they Might be good with 3 attacks each 4+/3+/-1/2..... but they cant ambush with the spawn, so they would have to foot slog on the table, and that would require the other shaman to buff that movement. Ugh... (srsly what cant razorgors and spawn ambush....not even in Darkwalkers, is beyond me.) But at that points cost, you need to consider that there are other more points efficient options that are just as durable and pack the same punch (Bullgors, Enlightened come to mind. Bestigors pack the punch but are more squishy) I`ll try this again: Thoughts on Cockatrice and Preyton ? I just got my first angry chicken yesterday, and also dug up two pretyons that were sitting waiting un-assembled for a very long long time at the bottom of my supplies box I`d like to give them a spin, but would like to hear what others think about them.
-
Thank you The_Yellow_Sign. Being fairly new to AoS (only 4 games under my belt atm.) tactics like these are fairly new to me and I am still trying to figure out some of the rules, how they work in general, and how to make use of them to the fullest.
-
I see. Yeah that actually sounds like a pretty solid strategy. Will try to pull that off this Saturday. So technically speaking,... could some other big beefy units make us of this ? Browsing through the pages, Dragon Ogres with War Glaives, could benefit from this. I was considering Gorghon, but it negates two of its attacks (the Huge Mouth, and the Swallow whole). Unless of course the Ungors get wiped out enough for the Gorghon to pile in from behind. Its kinda sad, bunch of our big stuff has 1" Range. You would expect Chimera Jabber, and Bullgors to have 2". You know. the big girbbly stuff. On a different note: Has anyone tried out Cockatrice and Preyton ? Cockatrice seems good against certain types of armies (Nighthaunt and Stormcast) though its quite unreliable. On the other hand Preyton looks very nice. 140 pts is a bit steep, and it no longer has the -1 to hit debuff for enemies, but D3 mortal wounds on charge, chance to generate more with shooting and combat attacks, and the fact it has no wound chart, has fly, and can pop out anywhere on the battlefield make it an interesting choice. Granted there are better options for pure combat, but one or two of these as cheap utility monsters (fast, fairly durable for its pionts and can kill stuff) dont sound that bad.
-
What if the Enlightened stod behind the Ungors ? They have 2" range so they should be fine, but then again, they did not charge so can they pile in ? As for Cygor: He has the re-roll to hit against Wizards so even with the new look out sir rules he still can be fairly dangerous. But yeah, I agree with the priced drop (not to 140 though, that would be a joke). 160 sounds just about fine. Although, I would consider him for the current price, if they got rid of the Range decreasing part of the Wound table . That one I think is way to harsh.
-
Ahh.... right Forgot we can only ally with Slaves of Darkness..... I dont wanna swear, but its extremely Idi**** that we cant ally ourselves with even the old Beastmen sub factions. I mean its really dumb. I think for the Demons it was fixed,, but you still have to take that specific Battalions (and even then I am not sure if it works. I know the errata should have fixed this though.) so the unit selection options are limited to what we can bring in those (notice how no other monsters other than Gorghon and Cygor are listed in those. Not even Razorgor. I imagine a Nurgle battalion would be intersting with bunch of Razorgor suicide bombs for 40 pts each, but nope. None of that). I guess I`ll just use my old Wargor BSB model as Bloodsecrator. Instead of +1 to Wound, the +1 Attack will have to do. (Funny how they can have this type of buff hero, but we cant.... damn I am getting salty here, better stop.) Thanks for entertaining the thought guys. I completely forgot I actually cant do that due to the Allies chart. ?
