Magnus The Blue
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Everything posted by Magnus The Blue
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Yeah, Cursling is great value if you are playing with realm spells or have lots of endless spells to chuck out. 2 spells a turn isn't great if all you can cast is glean magic and one lore of fate spell. Had a game last Friday with 2 units of 3 screamers, mainly just to fill out a Change-host but they were absolutely amazing. Damage output was as meh as ever but unit took a charge then retreated over enemy lines to capture objective, almost single-handedly winning me the game. The -1 to hit combined with 3 wounds each makes then surprisingly hardy for a cheap 5+ save unit, especially since you can cluster them tightly to minimise the attacks they are going to be taking.
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200 points is costly for the Phantasmagoraria, especially since the battalion ability is so bad in an army that will have more wizards than the opponent 90%+ of the time anyway. I've not figured out any awesome combos that make it worth the cost to mix Beast with Disciples. It is nice and flexible and has the usual benefits of having lots of units in a battalion (choice of first turn, artefact and command point), but feels at least 50 points too expensive, especially compared to the fantastic Khorne Battalion ability. That said, I love it for the conversion potential and can't wait to start Tzeentching some of the Beast of Chaos models.
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Off the top of my head Arcanite Cultists: 160 Tzaangor: 360 Enlightened (assumed on disks): 140 Skyfires: 200 Shamman: 180 So 1,040 without any battalions or 1k on the nose if you put the Enlightened on foot
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The Changecult box is much better in terms of competitive matched play options. Screamers, flamers and burning chariots all over costed, so you'll only really use the Pinks and Herald on foot if you are looking to win match play games.
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You forgot to allow for Mutants, but generally, I agree with what you're saying, Tzaangor have (post BoC changes) ok melee damage, a great banner and top notch resilience per point (8 points per wound with a 5+ and 6++).
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2 LoC wouldn't help as you can only have one general. Personally, I don't think the Mark is that good, worth at most 3 extra fate points a turn (with Cogs) but usually only 1 or 2. which means an extra many 100 points worth of summoning over the entire game (so of which will arrive too late in the game to have much impact). Usually, I'd rather have -1 to hit in combat for the LoC or Arcane Sacrifice for a mortal hero.
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Screamer don't really have the damage output to justify increasing their resilience. If you really want to stack to-hit modifiers, Lord of Change is the way to go. Easy access to -2 in combat (Incorporeal form and Gryph Feather/Miasmi Blade), -3 if the firer has been Geminids, good damage output and innate spell protection (the easiest way to kill a to hit modifier stacked unit).
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The problem with the Eternal Conflagration is that it contains a warpflame host , so tough to fit into a standard list unless you use burning chariots as battleline (but they are awful and don't get the -1) . Tried it once but you end up with so few models on the table that no amount of -1 to hit will keep you alive past a few turns. I imagine it'd be ok at 3k, as you could really cram in a lot of flamers at that point, but I rarely get to play at that level.
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Nope, no reason not to take max mutants. With the latest warscroll there is no benefit to having more than one shield in a unit, but it isn't a major issue having a few in there, it's rare you'll have all in range to fight and you can just take off the shields first. I always equip the command models all with Greatblades,, requires a bit of conversion but means you don't end up with tough choices between removing great blades or command models. Especially true of the Twistbray who is a mini blender with extra attack, +1 to wound, +1 to hit and a great blade. No harm taking max musicians and banners, also makes it easier to switch between unit sizes.
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So with BoC now out and are Tzaangors geting 'Brayherd' keyword, very tempted to for a Tzaangor heavy list with Brayshamman (s) and Beastlord as allies. Annoyingly you also need an Arcanite character nearby too to get the +1 to wound, but if buffed up Tzaangor units become a lightning fast blender of a unit. Tzaangor Shamman 2* Beastlords 2* Great Bray Shamman 3* 20 Tzaangor 6 * Enlightened on Disk Simple tactics of rush across the board turn one and start smashing face. With 9" move and run before charge you should get at least one unit of Tzaangors and the Enlightened in combat turn one. By turn two it should be a big bloody melee where the Beastlords command ability shines. The core question is do I run it as BoC or DoT. Destiny Dice are great, but are they worth giving up Ambush, Herd stone and potentially a Great Fray for?
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I think some BoC units as regular allies is the best thing about the new Beasts book (for Tzeentch armies), Great Bray Shamans and Beast lords would be great in any force with lots of Tzaangor. Dragon Ogres are a greatand cheap tanky unit which we don't really have access too inside our book. Also, can't wait to convert a Tzaan-Ghorgon with spare LoC bits.
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Sword is my favourite option too, great with Arcane Transformation and amazing if you have some 2s and 4s in your destiny dice, Nothing like hitting someone with 3 rend -2 damage 3 attacks without rolling a dice. Entirely depends on the rest of your list, casting along is probably not worth it. That said, an undamaged LoC does average 6 MW from it's spell, which is more than most wizards can do with 2 casts. In a mostly demon list it's ability to hold it's own in combat (unlike any other Tzeentch demons) and the command ability makes it a reasonably priced addition. Firing the command ability 2-3 times in a turn when your rocking lots of demon wizards can make for a devastating magic phase, easily capable of throwing out 20+ mortal wounds and gutting an enemies heroes or elite units. Also easily the best unit for getting the most value from artefacts and command abilities. Against some armies, a -2 to hit monster with buckets of wounds (that you'll struggle to take down with spells) is an absolute nightmare to deal with. If your feeling particularly nasty, hit a unit with Germin of light before charging with the LoC, nothing if very scaring with -3 to hit!
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Arcane cabal seems like a waste of points with only 2 casters in it. You could use those points and the two 20 point endless spells to upgrade your acolytes to pink horrors. Means you've got the same number of spells, don't have to keep those 3 heroes together and tonnes of blue horrors later in the game. Also Q swords is just a bad idea if you've got demon's in the list.
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Feels very fragile to me, if you lose the two characters you can no longer summon all those blue horrors the Pinks will be producing. Would prefer switching one of the units of Pinks for 10 Tzaangor to provide some combat punch and protection for the Gaunt Summoner. Also, if you have the models, Gaunt Summoner is about a million times better with the familiars. As for traits/items, if you feeling mean stacking minus to hit on the LoC is nasty at this size game: incorporeal form and Gryph Feather charge would make it a nightmare to take out.
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It's in the Silver tower errata. Yup, big deal and makes it an outstanding hero. Yes, got to keep it away from heroes. Not useless but definitely harder to use now.
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I think Ungor raiders are a completely different kettle of fish (and only Allies in DoT, which is the focus of this thread). 18" range and 40 models to get in range is very different from 3-6 models at 24" range (ambush helps you get in range, but you're still in charge range of most units after shooting them). That said, this last nerf feels like it's a bit too far (after the point rise) and doesn't make them unplayable but I can't see them making it into many competitive lists.
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Horrors are such an odd unit and take some getting used to, but can be really powerful. Also a great use of and 1s for destiny dice, I once got a unit from 10 to 20 just by using arcane sacrifice and 1s for battle shock every turn (and some nice rolling). The problem with them is their 1 of their 2 main abilities requires them to die (spells and splitting, their shooting is meh for a 20 point model), so if you play them too aggressively they get killed off and no more magic for you but if you hold them back too much no splitting and you have just got an overpriced caster unit. The trick is to get them engaged with units that will cause some but not allow of casualties to them so you can make the most of splitting and cast spells. They work best if there are demon characters around for locus and LoD for further casting bonus (again LoC better with more demon characters). Very little reason to ever take more than minimum size units. Tzaangors are a bit more point and click, but don't forget how devastating their banner can be if your wizard heavy. I'd got for units of 10 if you are going to reliably get 5+ dice for the banner or 20 if your not.
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If Enlighten had the Skyfire ability, they would be crazy good alright. Best way to use the Enlighted in my experience is a big group (9) so they can soak wounds, fold reality for crazy healing and Karios to save them from those pesky 1s. Obviously, not a valid tactic for Beasts, but those rerolls are so powerful it is often worth them taking some beatings.
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Just looked it up, 60mm!!! Despite they are always packaged with 32mm. Seams fishy, I've sent GW an email to confirm. Yes, the Designers commentary explicitly says you should always use the most recent warscroll (they are all free to download).
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Had a game last night and much to my surprise the real standout unit was 6 screamers. They didn't do a lots of wounds but the combination of being super fast, reasonably tanky (18 wounds and -1 to hit), flying and having relatively small bases (can fit in small spaces) means they are great for capturing and protecting objectives. Nice to see a unit I usually take resentfully to fill up a Changehost actually pulling it's weight. Probably still not going to field the 30 I own
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I've been thinking about the Herald on Burning Chariot recently and wonder if it is worth comboing with some endless spells. Specifically- Balewind Vortex for 15" range on Tzeetch's Firestorm, or even better (but more expensive) Spell Mirror to drop the spell in the middle of the opponent's army without putting the herald in harms way. Both costly combos and need some casting boost to get the 9+ regularly, but feels like it could be worth it against any army with MSU (multiple small units). Anyone tried it or got any ideas for how to best use the Herald on Burning Chariot?
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Will be interesting to see how the portal goes for you. I do like the idea of being to throw out a long range Gate from the LoC turn one, potentially from outside dispel range. Personally, not convinced by the Dirgehorn, since only the Shaman can cast and Germinds will have the same effect and some mortal wounds too (although obviously more likely to backfire).
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I mostly play pure Demons and they are good fun, but you've got to be really careful building list, especially at low points. Almost every unit is low on wounds (for the points) except for Blues and Brimstones, which means is very easy to get wiped out before you can summon in reinforcements (from Pinks splitting if nothing else). So at 1k, I'd have 1 endless spell max to make sure you have enough bodies. I don't think the blue scribes are worth it at this points level, once your pinks are dead you've only got 3 wizards left. Better to have a herald (on foot) to boost the MW output. If you really need a spell to go off, you've always got destiny dice. Treacherous bond doesn't feel like the best choice on the Gaunt Summoner, it already has 9 wounds thanks to familiars. I'd recommend making it your General with Arcane Sacrifice and Bolt of Tzeentch spell, since it has two casts and doesn't want to get close, so makes a lot of use from the extra range and re-roll. I'd loce to say put in some flamers and screamers, but neither are very good and you don't really have the spare points at this level for any.
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You can change your entire deployment to try and counter it, but that's cool too. Changling can stay hidden as long as necessary while disrupting movement and waiting for the time to strike. Also helps to have spell options (Geminds work really well against a Zig-zag formation). I obviously waited until I'd drawn out the auto-dispel ;). Still not entirely convinced, but the unit is very hard to counter and feels very Tzeetchy. The Changeling did a few more wound by charging a character and using their weapon against them before be torn up. This, also means to get to keep all the familiar goodness until your opponent has got through 4 of it's wounds. Such a strong hero now. I'd definitely consider dropping the Spellportal, just doesn't feel like it's worth 60 points now it's one spell or endless spell a turn. Personally I don't think you're going to be casting enough spells to make the LoC, Mark of the Conjurer, Cogs combo worth it (assuming that's what your going for). Lots of points and potentially pinning your LoC down to your side of the battlefield and you'll still only get an ok summon turn 2 and maybe another turn 4. I'd concentrate on max making the LoC tanky (Gryph feather and Incorporeal form is a personal favourite) and use it aggressively to keep the heat off the Tzaangors.
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Played a game last night with my endless spells galore list: Actually played really well, against a reasonably competitive storm-cast list . Ended up wiping them off the board by the end of turn 4, they really don't like that many mortal wounds. My favourite play had to be The Changling DDing a 11 to cast the pendulum down there battle line turn one. 15 mortal wounds done in total, but could have been ever better (6 units hit for D6 wounds each). Ended up using both the Vortex and Cogs on the Guant summoner most turns (with arcane sacrifice), so it was throwing out 4 spells a turn with +2 to cast (familiar and LoC command) and +15" range and rained death everywhere thanks to the nice offensive realm spells (Ghur). Couldn't recommend this comb enough if your using realms and the Summoner with familiars is the best caster to do it with in my opinion (effective 9 wounds make's it hard to shift). 10 Tzaangors did great too throwing out about 2 mortal wounds a turn before taking out a full unit of Evocators followed by a mounted mage (can't recall the name).
