Sleboda

Has this been confirmed? I happen to believe it did happen, but I've seen nothing to substantiate it.

I could see that. Order, Death, and now Destruction have an edition focusing on them. Chaos goes next, revealing Chaos Dwarves (among other things), and that lets GW also refresh regular dwarves to combat the new menace (and their ancient shame).

NVM.

Thanks for the thoughts, all. I'm pretty much insanely, violently opposed to any form of counts-as, so using things that are vampires and pretending they are necromancers is right out. That said, it does seem there are some other options that will work for me, so thanks again!

I thought of that one as well, but did not want to get into it here as it's tough to explain well and carries some darker elements that feel wrong to explore in this forum. That said (without going into it, and I won't), in my time at GW there was a case of this that I had to have a minor part in resolving. It wasn't pretty, and the secrecy around it was profound, carrying threats of termination if a peep was made about it. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I've seen corporations take drastic steps over issues with employees. Enough of that, though. None of us can say for sure what happened. I just really would love to see GW give us something to understand, rather than behaving in this secretive, sneaky way. Ah well.

I would. I'd expect it Day 1. If the rules changes are minimal enough that they don't impact the functionality and balance of thousands of extant rules, why make the changes (the new edition) at all? If the rules changes are big enough to warrant a rewrite if the game, then the Battletomes will either need to be updated through FAQs/erratas/whatever or rendered invalid and replaced very, very quickly.

FWIW, I used to be one of three people in the US HQ who collected the questions for all FAQs. We gathered them up and sent them to UK HQ quarterly. We would then answer rules questions from callers with consistency, based on the complied document of answers. This was back in the late 90's. Sometimes we would send in questions that had answers that were quite clear if you applied what was written, but just felt wrong, like mistakes. Boy howdy did that every go poorly! We were thoroughly chastised by the studio, condescended to in their replies, and told that if we dared ask if these clear rules were mistakes again, they would stop answering altogether. More than one designer expressed this. Not joking. Not exaggerating. The moral of the story is: Suggest that the Lords of Rules Design make mistakes at the peril of the ability for all of us to get clarity on genuinely confusing rules.

I agree that the timing issue with AoS is probably indeed an issue, but only in that it might push a reprint of City out a bit. That still doesn't justify cancelling it with so many sunk costs already, well, sunk. Nor does that justify the rewriting of social media and map history. Something smells fishy there. As to copyrighting game mechanics, yeah, you can. At least in some ways. I've known several copyright lawyers in my day, but I'm not actually one myself, so I can't promise I'm using the right terms, only trying to get ideas across - ideas I've discussed with those lawyers over dinner and wine numerous times. Also, I did say the day/night thing was just a for instance, not the thing I am putting up as the actual problem. Could have been any number of things. And yes, you can copyright game mechanics and licence them. The D20 system and card tapping are examples I believe (never really paid much attention there). That's not really the point, though. I'm suggesting that there was ... something ... in the game that may have put them in legal jeopardy. What it is we'll likely never know. I just keep coming back to how much they had clearly thrown at this, and how insane it is to lose all ... that ... money ... entirely rather than issue a statement that actually could have given them some good pub. For example, if a delay is the issue, say something like this: "The initial launch of our newest Warhammer Quest game, Cursed City, has been a rousing success. Thousands of hobbyists around the world are, at this very moment, painting models and fighting to save Ulfenkarn from the clutches of the Beast. As you know, we have big plans in store for your future journeys into the Cursed City, but we also have a major update to a cretain popular Warhammer game just around the corner. In order to make sure that anyone who wants a copy (or two!) of Dominion can get one, we will be delaying further Cursed City releases for a time. This will allow us to ensure we produce enough of the exciting new Dominion set to meet demand. We heard you after Indomitus, and rest assured, we are taking steps to make sure our enthusiastic fans don't need to experience the delays that happened with that set. So, while we are all disappointed by having to wait, it just means you'll have time to hone your undead fighting skills (and paint your models with our new STC brushes) <click to buy some today> as you prepare for the inevitable return of Radukar and his minions." @RexHavoc Copies on shelves getting sold could easily be part of the out-of-court agreement.

My guess? It has something to do with the rules or mechanics of the actual game. For instance, maybe someone can prove that they invented the day/night thing (not saying that's the actual case, just a for instance) and GW copied it illegally. This means you can't keep selling the game, and planned expansions would be rendered unusable, while the fiction and models are fine. I don't know. None of us do. I'm just putting up a theory that fits really, really well. I do know this, though. You don't, again, cancel an entire product range without even saying "maybe more later" when you've written all the rules, paid for hundreds if not thousands of design hours, likely printed and packed at least some of the expansions, filmed several support videos, and so on just to drop it all and make no money unless you are forced to do that. Look at it this way. Warhammer Quest, while sharing lore and providing (entirely optional) crossovers with the Big Games, is an entirely independent game. People can play Quest and AoS, either or both, and never have one impact the other. They are not hurting each other. AoS 3 will not be harmed at all by the presence of Quest. Rather, it might even help. And I'll say it again - the majority of the investment in Quest was almost certainly already spent. Molds were made (and I agree with you that lots of the new vamp stuff would have been in expansions), cardboard printed, etc. Sunk costs. You don't cancel all that ... and say nothing at all ... because you have to juggle a schedule. You just don't. I'll also add this. It might not have even made it to court. The agrieved may have told them they planned to sue. GW may have had lawyers look at it and the lawyers told GW that the other person had a solid case. Again, I don't know, but it does happen. The lawyers tell you you are going to take a bath in terms of cash and, perhaps more importantly, in reputation (which can drag down goodwill and impact investor confidence), so you choose the less painful option. You cancel the thing that has you getting in trouble. You settle with the agrieved financially and agree to their terms to not use their stuff. Heck, the person may have offered to accept royalties, even for less than the amount of the settlement, but you can't do that. You can't have it get out that you, a business who (entirely legitimately) sues others for copyright problems, is getting sued for copyright problems. You tell the person "Look, we're not letting this get out, and we're not paying royalties. Here's a bunch of cash. We'll stop selling products that use your property, and we all agree to say nothing at all. We good? Good. Now go away." 🤷‍♂️

Hi all. I'm a fan of all things undead in Warhammer. Except actual vampires. I mean, they're ok and all, but they don't grab me like the rest. So, I'm working on a new undead army using necromancers, skeletons, zombies, etc. Probably no vampires. Looking at the new book, it seems the only bloodline that makes that a realistic option is Night. It bummed me out that you must choose a bloodline, there is no generic one, and all but Night have abilities linked to the presence of a vampire character. Is that right? Am I missing something?

I can. Lawsuit. It's abundantly clear they had invested in a long term lifespan of the game. The initial setup work (the videos, for example, and more) was massive, the pre-marketing was expansive, and the hints at expansions in the materials is hard to ignore. This was a game with a LOT invested in it. There was a future. And then *poof* it was gone. In other words, they had put a bunch of time and money into establishing a long run. But then it died with absolutely, positively zero, ziltch, nada in terms of communication. Only one thing explains it. They were compelled to kill it by a law suit. I'm guessing there was something in the game to which someone else could claim ownership. They sued and won and part of the terms included not publishing any other products. I mean, for goodness sake, they didn't even mention the game when they released the models from it. No "fans of Cursed City who missed out on these models won't need to wait much longer to get their hands on them." The complete lack of reference to Cursed City in ALL materials since the vanishing is a huuuuuuge tell that GW is being compelled to act a certain way, and the lack of any sort of explanation is also 100% in line with a court order to shush. Do I know this is the case? No. It does, however, fit completely with what has happened and continues to happen. A simpler way to look at this is the age old adage: "Follow the money." The game and its future plans were going to make plenty of money for GW. I can see where timing might (might!) have stepped on the Gravelords a tiny, tiny bit, but nowhere near how much the game would have made them, and if there's one thing I trust about GW, it's that they will always go for maximum money.

Good on ya. It's always cool to see someone take a comment in stride without reacting as if attacked. Nice sign of good character.

They weren't. They were their own Battletome. 😁

Words have meaning, though. Atheists, the fine and intelligent folks they are, do not believe in gods. It's not a question of seeing they exist but not serving them. It's about knowing they don't exist.

I respect your thoughts on this, but have to disagree. There just no way an entire product range is killed off just to persevere a few sales from one small subset of another.

I think so. For those who don't know, B&N is Barnes & Noble, a physical bookseller here in America. GW has several less expensive, slimmed down games available there.

Pretty sure the is what the B&N games are meant to be.

First off, I gotta say, I really, really like GW stuff. Their person-to-person customer service is fantastic. Their engagement over the 'net has really kicked up several notches in recent years. There is a lot to like. Now then. Trust? Not even a little. The Cursed City issue cancellation was bad. Really bad. Not saying one damn word about it (even if it was just "we know folks were excited, but we had to make the hard call to ditch it ... can't tell ya why") is unconscionable. Add to that the severe shortages on not only limited books (Cursed City novel, the new 40K one, etc.), but also on standard release novels (newest undead one), it looks like amateur hour. I mean, gosh, it's not at all uncommon to see new release items go out of stock either permanently (warscrolls ... WTF?) or for months (several Necron items, and now VC kits may be that way). These are new items. Key items. A huuuuuuge amount of an item's sales over its entire life cycle come in the initial month of release. Restocking later is fine, but they are absolutely bleeding profits on permanently lost sales with regularity. Stock holders should be livid. I know I am. Finally, when you consider the regular/consistent inability to do good demand planning on big boxes, even vital ones like Indomitus, which is explained away each ... and ... every ... time as "by golly, you folks out there blew us away with how much you wanted," it's pretty clear that any trust they want us to have in their ability to supply products is not earned at all. It's even fair to speculate that they may be doing this intentionally to create FOMO and drive sales to their own site. I know, for example, that I'm glued to my keyboard every Saturday at noon, trying to be "lucky" enough to get what I want, at full retail, from them (I stopped using retailers on the internet months back. I used to buy regularly from places like Ministomp, Miniature Market, Dice Head, War Store (RIP), and others at a discount. I no longer do because those places either took my order and money for items they didn't even know they could get (aka lied) or simply stopped doing preorders because GW had been consistently shorting them, making me miss on things). I say "lucky" because some stuff, like the last undead novel, was sold out literally the instant it went up for sale. Was it even actually ever available in my market? I don't know. I just know I don't trust them at all in this regard. Trust GW to meet demand? Not even a tiny little bit.

Preach, rev. If I could have three wishes, I'd probably spend one to get at least the option for a monopose regiment of all "standard" troops.

Make it $4 / month BUT it includes the 40k app and AoS app, then fine. Otherwise, if it's more than $1/mo, yeah, someone had an inflated view of themselves. Edit: I pay full price for Netflix. It's given a huge variety of enjoyable content. I also pay for a top tier cable package, but mostly for live sports (would likely drop it if I could get Penguins and Steelers games another legal way on their own). I get Hulu for free from my phone carrier, and would pay maybe only $3/month for it without that even though there are many good things on it. I get Prime video included with my Amazon Prime subscription. Would maybe ... maybe pay $3/month for it in its own. I prepaid for three years of Disney+ because it ended up being about $3/month with the deal and it has a metric poo-ton of content I like. I don't care how much Warhammer content this new one will provide or how much I mega love my Warhammer hobby. If it's more than $1/month on its own, there's just no way it offers enough. Go ahead, compare it to the money I spend each month on White Dwarf. For me, for my way of enjoying the things, WD is worth it and this app would not be. Now, tell me I can get W+ for free, or for a once per per year $9.99 add-on to a WD sub, and I'm sold. On a more positive note, I think that goblin shield has a tongue nailed to it, just like the rumor engine.

Hey, now, true as that may be, there are kids on this forum. 😉

As a shareholder, there is good news in there for me as well. Happy day!

Really? Nah. That would mean that a completely, totally, utterly passive experience like standing in the breeze on a hot day is a hobby. It's not. Anyone interested in a separate thread on what makes a hobby? I know I am! 😁

Video games are not a hobby. Don't get me wrong, I luvz me some video games, but a hobby they are not. Even IF they are, a digital Warhammer game would be a different hobby. The Warhammer hobby without WYSIWYG models is a different ... activity ... altogether and not the same thing in any meaningful way. Also, Priest and no minion Mage in Hearthstone are vile assaults on fun.

If you after playing online, you're not playing the full game. The models are a fundamental, critical, crucial element.