Sleboda

I still have that guy on my "up next" painting bench, where he's been for at least 10 years. At least he's basecoated!

I agree. I'm still painting, but I gotta be honest, with our army taking all of the hits and gaining nearly none of the benefits of the new edition, I'm thinking the whole future of Bonereapers will come down to the FAQ. Until we see that, there's little point in doing any theoryhammer.

That book was my target item for the day. I was so sick of other limited items selling out and really wanted this one. The price gave me exactly zero hesitation. I placed my order for it (along with loads of other stuff) and declared victory. After completing the order, I paused and reflected on having just spent more on that book than I did in on the whole boxed set ... and realized I probably would have paid even more if they asked for it. I don't know what the lesson here is. I just thought I'd share. Maybe it's that I just really love cool books.

As is appropriate for a wargame. A game where armies fight against armies. Again, I really like monsters and neat stuff and will enjoy this way to play, but I just don't think we can still think of AoS as anything "higher" than a skirmish game with these changes. Maybe I'm wrong. Easily could be and would be happy if so, but Sons cracked the army damn, and 3.0 looks like it'll release the flood waters entirely. (Which, again, is not inherently a bad thing.)

That's a shame, really. I'm not saying the game won't be fun played this way, but I remember the days of Herohammer, where the army itself really didn't matter in many cases, only the general, a few monsters, and a cannon. This feels like a move back toward "armies" where there isn't an army, just a collection of individuals with great power. Sons of Behemat for all in other words. I suppose this really just puts "this is not a wargame anymore!!!" in neon on the billboard. And that's ok. There are other games where armies fight armies, it just may be that AoS has decided to give up the pretense and embrace the ease of access of only needing 20 models to play. Makes me wonder what place Warcry will have going forward, though. There's really no need for GW to maintain two low model count skirmish games. Ah well. I'll have fun regardless!

Dunno if it's still true, but during part of my days in GW IT, I was responsible for collecting sales data from the retail chain, and at that time Space Marines alone outsold all of Warhammer Fantasy combined. Yeah. People like their space fascists.

Info: @TwiceIfILikeIt and I jumped on the site about 10 minutes before opening. We each had a window open to the Queue-it launch page and also to the "hidden" page (delete a bunch from the URL - get a different page). On each page our queue ID was the same (different for each of us/device, but the same within each account). We also each opened a page on our phones, each using the same (per person, different accounts for each of us) account. The queue IDs on our phones did not match those on our PCs. Interestingly, our wait times were different from each other (as expected) and different on each device, even within the same account. For instance, my PC showed about a 40 minute wait time. After that, I opened my phone version and got a ... wait for it ... 6 minute wait time. My my. So, we had six options (four of which were actually unique queue IDs), and the one that signed on last (my phone) got in waaaaay ahead of the others. Bottom line: I got my freakin' limited $215 book! Yay me!

Interesting. One of my mid-level gripes about how the hobby has evolved since the early 90's is how you used to be able to buy, individually, 40 of the exact same model and build a regiment that looks like, well, a regiment as opposed to a mob. People who wanted variety could buy other poses or convert (and rather easily in the old days of wonderful, lovely, delightful lead models). Now you get a box of bits that pushes you into making a unit that looks like they are not part of the same unit. Not my cup of Death Wish Coffee. Can't folks still just convert the ETB models to get the variety they want?

Why is that unfortunate? The kits still look awesome, they are indeed "full kits" as well, and they have the added bonus of being easier to build. I totally don't get why folks think that something with additional features should cost less than the things without them. 🤷‍♂️

2 hours to go until the US market opens and we get to see that the rest of the world has already bought all the copies of the limited book. Or not. Fingers crossed.

I won't debate the scumminess here (I tend to lean toward "not scummy"), one point - Even if they handed out 1000 review copies (probably closer to 250 I'd guess), that's a deep in the water. It would not remove the scarcity issue.

I hear what you're saying, but I think it's important to note that even these people in talking about are still "playing to have fun." Fun is built into games. It's more about what makes an activity fun for a given player.

It's sort of a topic on it's own, but sadly, yes. Prizes at tournaments are, in my opinion, one of the absolute worst parts about this hobby. It's bad enough that some folks use winning at these things as some sort of alpha dog creating, personality validating, ego inflating experience that lets them measure the size of their, um, you know, in public, but when you then also dangle vacations, cash, and/or hundreds (or thousands) of dollars worth of toys in the face of these "bruh, do you even lift, bruh" types, it gets so much worse. Prizes bring out the Roid Rager in far too many hobbyists.

Orrrrr ... Make a point to play with the whole system, including the new points, for several games before passing judgment, maybe? We have had a drip of info given to us for just a few days. The studio has been working on this for at least a year, one presumes, and the external play testers (some pretty smart and Matched Play experienced cookies in that lot, it should be said) have had this for quite a while as well. But yeah, we who have just now seen just a part of the whole and have played exactly zero games with the full system ... we can decide that it's not worth using the full package? Come on.

Nah. Just like Nagash, they already grabbed that cash. By nerfing now, after all those sales, Matched Play players are left with a points gap in their armies (models they purchased but will no longer be using) that must be filled with new purchases. More money!

$

Over the next few days, I'm playing some actual games with the new rules. I'll come back here and talk about how it went. I'd encourage others to share here as well. Not full on battle reports, just commentary on how the new rules impacted your games. Right now, folks are speculating. Let's end that with, oh, I dunno, real experiences.

And as we know from the official source, RAI is to be ignored in each and every case.

Oh? See below. It defines what a scenery piece is as a thingamabob from the Warhammer AoS range. Because it doesn't say other stuff can be as well, this is the only thing defined to be. Now, clearly I'm taking a bit of the wee, but, you know, just sayin'.

Only if you're restricting yourself to Matched Play. Even then, I'm actually looking forward to tournaments where the win is not found in creating the trickiest min/Max gadget list, but rather in fielding something that looks like an army and has to function as one to win.

Anyone else notice that the rules now define terrain as terrain kits from GW for AoS? I don't they meant that only "official" AoS, GW-made kits qualify as terrain, but ya never know.

How long have you played GW games? Looking for them to focus on old things that are mostly done selling at the expense of promoting new things to sell is a bit of wishful thinking. They've been consistent over the years. Kill the old. Sell the new. I've got over 10,000 points of Bonereapers. I'm not selling. I've learned my lesson over 35+ years in this hobby to not sell my old stuff. I miss all the old models I've sold, even if I would never play with them again.

There's a bit of a discussion of this going on over in the Death subforums. This is what I posted there before seeding this thread (where it also makes sense to post, so I will) - Bonereapers are in a very, very bad place and I don't expect help from GW for the foreseeable future. Nagash is mostly deleted from the setting in terms of the lore, as is Arkhan. Nagash has gone up in points and both he and Arkhan are now likely to short circuit when using the very thing they focus on and cost the points they do for. Their custom rules system of Discipline, and also their endless spells rules plus the benefits of many of their other abilities, are now a hindrance or at least nowhere near as useful as they were before. The high volume sales cycle for the entire Bonereapers range is over. (A new range, or new kits, will sell a huge chunk of all the kits it will ever sell in that first year (and indeed the first few weeks) after its initial release.) The Soulblight Gravelords are the new "hot" undead faction. That's GW's focus now, not encouraging interest in a lagging competitor for the hearts and minds of undead players, especially a range with such different rules construction and key kits direct sales only, much less useful for the points, or otherwise tough to get players to buy. (Remember, Bonereapers can't even take these new undead as allies.) If I'm GW, I largely move on from Bonereapers and focus on selling Gravelords now. I'm not spending time figuring out how to fit the square peg of Bonereapers into the round hole of the new AoS core rules. The FAQ is almost certain to be a very rushed patch, with an eye toward a full rework years down the road when it might (might!) make sense to revisit the army, add a few new kits, and resell their rules with fancy new expensive limited edition books, dice sets, and cards. There's just no real incentive to put the work in on them now when they would take such effort to make them remotely viable.

I'm sure they considered it, but not sure that we will like their conclusion. Nagash is mostly deleted from the setting in terms of the lore, as is Arkhan. Nagash has gone up in points and both he and Arkhan are now likely to short circuit when using the very thing they focus on and cost the points they do for. Their custom rules system of Discipline, and also their endless spells rules plus the benefits of many of their other abilities, are now a hindrance or at least nowhere near as useful as they were before. The high volume sales cycle for the entire Bonereapers range is over. (A new range, or new kits, will sell a huge chunk of all the kits it will ever sell in that first year (and indeed the first few weeks) after its initial release.) The Soulblight Gravelords are the new "hot" undead faction. That's GW's focus now, not encouraging interest in a lagging competitor for the hearts and minds of undead players, especially a range with such different rules construction and key kits direct sales only, much less useful for the points, or otherwise tough to get players to buy. (Remember, Bonereapers can't even take these new undead as allies.) If I'm GW, I largely move on from Bonereapers and focus on selling Gravelords now. I'm not spending time figuring out how to fit the square peg of Bonereapers into the round hole of the new AoS core rules. The FAQ is almost certain to be a very rushed patch, with an eye toward a full rework years down the road when it might (might!) make sense to revisit the army, add a few new kits, and resell their rules with fancy new expensive limited edition books, dice sets, and cards. There's just no real incentive to put the work in on them now when they would take such effort to make them remotely viable.

You certainly can, but not in Matched Play games.