Icarion

I'm so tired of people complaining out price hike. So I know that everyone feels angsty over the perceived price of Lumineth and now Sons of Behamat. With that in mind, I thought it would be fun to go through the Warscroll builder, and the Games workshop site in USD and calculate what some standard 2000point lists would cost to build for various factions. Where possible I avoided endless spells except to pad points at the end of a list. I avoided choosing the most price inefficient choice to try and inflate army costs/price. For most I choose what I thought looked like fun lists, and for factions with terrain, I have included it. I have very little experience building chaos armies, so I mostly focused on Order and Destruction armies I play regularly. Finally pricing for this was through the GW webstore, so does not include what you might find from FLGS discounts, but since those discounts would be shared for each faction, I don't think that truly impacts this list. From cheapest to most expensive: Ogor Mawtribes: 524USD with terrain Ossiarch Bonereapers: 632USD with terrain Gloomspite Gitz: 678USD with terrain Kharadron Overlord: 719USD Sons of Behamat: 775USD Daughters of Khaine: 781USD Idoneth Deepkin: 783USD (with 2 Shipwrecks) Sylvaneth: 793USD (with 3 wyldwoods) Lumineth Realm-Lords: 793USD Lists: Ogor Mawtribes: Tyrant, Butcher, Firebelly, (2) Frost sabers, (4) leadbelchers, (8) ironguts, (12) Ogor Gluttons, (4) Mournfang Pack, (2) Iron Blaster Ossiarch Bonereapers: Liege-Kavalos, Mortisan Boneshaper, Motisan Soulmason, (10) Kavalos Deathriders, (50) Mortek Guard, (3) Necropolis Stalkers, (1) Gothizzar Harvester, (1) Mortek Crawler Gloomspite Gitz: (1)Loonboss, (1) Loonbos on giant cave squig, (1) Fungoid cave Shaman, (1) Madcap Shaman, (1) Gobbapalooza, (20) Shootas, (60) Stabbas, (12) Squig Herd, (10) Boingrot Bounders, (10) Loonsmasha Fanatics, (3) Rockgut Troggoths, (1) dankhold Troggoth, (1) malevolent moon Kharadron Overlords: (1) Arkanaut Admiral, (1) Aether-Khemist, (1) Aetheric Navigator, (30) Arkanaut Company, (3) Endrinriggers, (15) Grundstok Thunderers, (2) Grundstock Gunhaulers, (1) Arkanaut Frigate, (1) Arkanaut Ironclad) Daughters of Khaine: (1) Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood, (1) Slaughter Queen, (1) Morathi High Oracle of Khaine, (10) Blood Sisters, (5) Blood Stalkers, (5) Khinerai Heartrenders, (30) Witch Aelves, (30) Sisters of Slaughter Idoneth Deepkin: (1) Akhelian King, (1) Eidolon Aspect of the Sea, (1) Tidecaster, (1) Soulscryer, (20) Namarti Thralls, (10) Namarti reavers, (6) Ishlean Guard, (3) Morsaar Guard, (1) Akhelian Leviadon Sylvaneth: (1) Spirit of Durthu, (1) Arch Revenant, (1) Branchwych, (1) Drycha Haemadreth, (50) Dryads, (10) tree Revenants, (3) Kurnoth Hunters, (2) Treelords Lumineth Realm Lords: (1) Light of Eltharion, (1) Scinari Cathallar, (1) Alarith Stonmage, (15) Alarith Stoneguard, (20) Wardens, (20) Sentinels, (10) Dawnriders, (1) Alarith Spirit of the Mountain, (1) Rune of Petrification Sons of Behamat: 3 Mega Gargants, 3 aleguzzlers (This is based on leaked pricing in USD of mega gargants 195USD, a 2 set of aleguzzlers now going 125USD and a single still being 65USD) I don't think the lists particularly matter, but these are all lists I either have played or played against, or plan to collect, but everyone's lists are different so it shouldn't matter. The point isnt to say "well this list sucks, or is not very efficient" My point with these test 2000 pt armies is just that these are pretty standard collections of miniatures for various factions adding up to a 2k list. These are not meant to be tournament competitive, just the kind of fun, thematic armies that most people tend to collect, to paint and play. Obviously the LRL are tied with Sylvaneth at the high end of this spectrum, but realistically, they are not too far away from the rest of these armies, Nor are the Sons of Behamat. I encourage other people to do this for themselves. Looking at individual pricing can feel discouraging, but looking at army collections as a whole, the LRL and SoB seem just fine. Feel free to add to this list, as I think this type of cost comparison will help calm some of our "sky is falling" members. _________ TLDR: Even if kit prices look high, the cost a a 2000 point army is pretty similar across the board for various factions.

So from a handful of games which apparently you won, you can say definitively that an army is auto win. Sounds right to me.... I hate when people say ****** like this, it means I never get to win a game playing this army. If I do defeat my opponent, it's not because of my skill, but because some internet rando said my army was auto win, I didn't win, my army did. If I loose to my opponent, not only have I lost a game, my opponent defeated what was supposed to be an auto win list, meaning I cant win with the deck stacked in my favor, I lose twice. No matter the outcome of the game, I come out the looser. The army isnt even released yet and already you have enough experience playing it to know definitively its OP, and ruining the game for others. ________________________________________________________________________________________________ I'm done with this conversation, as this is the rumor thread, not a place to whine about whichever army you think is OP. Maybe try some empathy before posting like this again.

I've lost two of my first three games with LRL, 1st against Orruk Warclans, 2nd loss against Mawtribes. I guess I don't have half a brain. How many times have you played against LrL, have you lost every time?

You’re welcome to your opinion but we simply disagree on these points. I think it’s perfectly doable for GW to reign in artifacts with some alternate system to what we have now. The current system doesn’t work. I find it hard to imagine there are many people who look at the new realm artifacts in the GHB and compares them to even bottom tier battletomb artifacts and say they are equivalent choices and that’s a shame. But instituting even a wimpy points system with a cap would solve that issue. Of all the points balance complaints people have had about GW over the years, and pretty much all of them are close to valid, I can’t recall much vitriol over the points costs of most WFB items. It’s hard to ****** up things that cost 10-50 points. As to your “won’t” point. You can’t say GW won’t because they want you to spend money on points, you already point out battalions which undercuts your argument, but we also can buy command points and basically buy triumphs with points as well. Going one step further, I have seen plenty of lists back when malign sorcery artefacts were a thing, where people were basically buying cheap battalions simply for the 1 extra powerful artifact, which is basically points cost for artefacts already in game just with extra steps.

Which fits neatly into my next hope, artefacts need points costs again. There is no way that GW can balance all artefacts to be equal, which makes having them be free a balance nightmare leading to either broken or useless items.

I'd like to see a removal of command traits and artefacts being forced on you for taking a specific subfaction. The books are filled with cool command traits and artefacts that will never be used because not aligning your force to a subfaction is handicapping yourself.

The conversion was quite extensive, but there are a lot of wip photos if you search my name through this thread. Of the top of my head these are the bits uses for cloud (but few of them are unaltered/repositioned/sculpted) The legs are based around the OOP metal Imrik model, with Light of Eltharion's Knee pads, thigh armor, and sword sheath. The torso is based around a shadow Warrior tunic with the shoulders and cape cut off and sculpted over, the belt is the belt from Light of Eltharion The arms, are a mix of Namarti Thrall and Wild Rider, with the glove and gauntlet coming from the shadow warrior kit and Eltharion respectively. The sword is a a filled in version of Orion's spear from the old wood elves line, with added ornamentation. The head is the least converted bit, it's one of the female heads from the FW Van Saar necromunda upgrade set, with hair sculpted over the top. Through out there is a lot of pinning repositioning and sculpting, but those are base parts.

Thanks mate, The heads on the pikes come from the old metal Phoenix guard. Probably my all time favorite high elf helm sculpt. I've had 40 of them sitting in my closet for a rainy day project and I just decided to go all out and convert all 20 of my lumineth wardens to use this head. It's funny, I know a ton of people in the community love the look of the wardens/sentinels and Dawnriders, and loath the longhorn heads on the alarith, but I'm the reverse. The only helm I disliked in the Lumineth range were the wardens, who looked altogether too greek-hoplite for my tastes, it just clashed with the asian aesthetic of the rest of the range in my opinion. SO problem solved.

These dice are great. I had a set of cylindrical dice one and they rolled great. Not sure how rolling large numbers will work, but shouldn’t be a problem. these are giving me a serious Mahjong vibe which I love. best of all, despite how outlandish they may look, the pips are still just pips, so these will be easy to read for you and your opponent. GW really seems to struggle with making usable/readable faction dice but between the pre-release set and these dice, I think the Lumineth are spoiled for great dice!

I do too. They are outlandish, and they give me a serious Mahjong vibe, but the best part to me is that they are clearly readable. They may look odd, and have a different rolling mechanic, but the dice pips are easy to read which seems to be a problem for other GW faction dice. Between these, and the box set dice, Lumineth are spoiled for great dice choices.

Loreseeker on Spirit of the Wind complete. From the first tease of the Lumineth in January, I have been excited thinking about what my armies general would look like. I've enjoyed roleplaying through my miniature collections on the tabletop, and one of the best aspects of this hobby sculpting/kitbashing a unique hero to lead your force. My goal setting out was to create something that both blends in with the established design language of the new Lumineth range, and simultaneously stands out as a unique creation. From the spirit mask, to the armor to the basing I believe that I have achieved those goals. This was a labor of love, and I hope to see other hobbyists create unique and fantastical heroes using the fertile background of Age of sigmar and the Lumineth. I hope you enjoy!

This is what I was afraid would happen. That's why I snagged the physical book they produced for this years Adepticon off ebay. I just wanted to have a copy of those great stories, incase they got lost online.

I've now completed and based by first 5 Dawnriders, 10 Wardens, and my converted Scinari Cathallar. The Cathallar is based on one of my favorite High Elves miniatures, the classic Archmage on Elemental base. While I adore that model, it felt wrong to use it as-is, so I went about converting her to more closely fit the aesthetic of the Lumineth Cathallar, most notably by sculpting a veil on a new head for her, and creating a smoke-censor staff to echo the curved language of the official miniatures headpeice. Let me know what you think!

Hey there, and congratulations on making one of the hardest choices in AOS, which army to start with (as so many are amazing) 1) when I start a new army (and as I did when I started IDK a few years ago) I like to plan out 1000, 1500 and 2000 point lists as a goal to collect towards. Don't worry overly much about competitiveness. People will tell you that only eels are competitive, but I've had great success in my local campaigns and tournaments using pretty much every warscroll in the book. My advice when coming up with a "list" to build/collect towards is what models inspire you, which ones you think would be most fun to model and paint. From there an army should start to form and the next choices become even easier. 2) This depends heavily on which models you want to play with, as different enclaves do better with different units, Ionrach is great for caster heavy armies, Morphan for Namartii. However, My personal favorite is Nautillar, its a very defensive enclave and it pairs well with IDK tides of death, and defensive, IShlean Guard Eels. I like it, because compared to many enclaves which are only useful in some niche situations, getting a flat reroll to hits when a unit gets charged is huge, and really is an easy to remember force multiplier. AOS isn't as restrictive as 40k in needing armies painted to match subfactions, paint the miniatures how you like, and they can fit in any enclave. 3) IDK are one of the next books expected to be updated, as they are one of the oldest left currently. (Its Maggotkin of Nurgle, Legions of Nagash, Daughters of Khain and IDK in that order). Considering that Daughters are getting a huge update this fall with the new broken realms book, new warbands and a new hero mini, it seems likely that an IDK update is due within the next year. I wouldn't get your hopes up for a bunch of new models, but a new hero, an Underworlds warband and endless spells seem very likely considering GWs release trend.

My first AoS army was idoneth, and I’ve now started up my lumineth. Neither are particularly new player friendly. Idoneth aren’t really a point and click army. You can’t just throw units at the enemy and expect to win, movement is your most important ability, and correct unit placement, at the correct distance to set up, or deny charges is key. This becomes challenging because if the tides of death table which changes what your army should be doing each turn, you need to be placing units and planning things turns in advance. Not the easiest thing to learn for beginners. lumineth on the other hand have a different type of dificulty. Lots of different abilities, buff, spells, and synergies to keep track of. Even for experienced players, it’s difficult to remember these types of things and use them all efficiently, but lumineth are nearly crippled if you forget to use a key ability at the right moment. Of the two armies, I think idoneth are more straight forward to learn for beginners as you really only need to focus on placing your units correctly. Lumineth require intense micromanagement in comparison. I love both armies but I hope this honesty helps you choose wisely if ease of play is important to you.

@Wyliekyote It's called metal Holographic 2, Its very different from the rest of their colorshift range which I have used a great deal. The best way I could describe the effect in person is that it look like a holographic trading card.

I'm still waiting to mask and Airbrush the weapon blades (I have a great holographic paint from greenstuff world) but otherwise, I have nearly completed my first 5 Dawnriders, and 7 Wardens. I've also attached two pictures to show the holographic paint I'm going to start using for the blades. It has a wonderful colorshift through nearly the whole rainbow spectrum. Very pleased with how it looks so far.

So This weekend I got an chance to play my first game using the Lumineth Realm-Lords, against an opponent I'd never played but who I have chatted with occasionally on a local wargaming group. As I usually do when Setting up the game, and going through my list with opponent, I gave him a rundown of what my army does, and abilities that he should be aware of, for example, "these guys are 1- to hit if they stay base to base" or "this guy has Ethereal" "These guys can move 28" with a spell" "This lady can make your units take my battleshock tests" ect. This is my normal approach as there are so many armies, I figure a refresher to help avoid gotcha moments is a good thing. A gotcha moment is where an opponent makes a game choice they never would have if they had been aware of a specific special rule. (For example, not being aware of tides of death, and mistakenly charging Idoneth Deepkin armies in turn 3) We got around to his army list, and he kinda rushes through it, I start asking what units do, or what the army special rules are (I haven't played his army before) And his response was either you'll find out in game, or you can look it up in the app. I pushed the issue and his response shocked me, he said "I'm not going to give you my strategy to win, if I do that what is the point of playing?" I packed up my army and went out to lunch instead of struggling through that match. I guess I have two questions for the community about your local metas, is walking your opponents through your rules to help avoid traps uncommon? And or, do you or opponents you regularly play against consider surprise rules/traps/gotcha moments a core part of the gaming experience.

It's like Daughters of khaine are not my taste aesthetically, and Morathi is not heroic to my alignment views, but, she literally clawed her way out of a chaos God fueled by pure spite. If that doesn't make her one of the coolest characters in AOS, I don't know what could.

I couldn't disagree more, it makes perfect sense to her, and from a lore standpoint. Whether or not, Tyrion and Malerion Agree, Morathi and teclis can see the writing on the wall that Slaanesh cannot be contained forever. They make a point of her saying that the idea of It being jailed permanently is madness and that Its escape will be inevitable, Teclis seems to agree, even without explicit knowledge of Morathi's tampering with the prison, Teclis sees the effects of the Necroquake and realizes that Slaanesh will slip Its chains sooner or later, with or without anyone's help. If that is true, why wouldn't Morathi try to get as many souls as possible before that happens? If you know that It's escape is inevitable, it makes perfect sense that not only would you try to squeeze as many extra souls out of as possible, with a bonus that each soul you steal empowers your position and weakens his. Makes perfect sense for her character, and even from a meta tactical perspective. And she has grown. But that doesn't mean grown wise, or just. But she was the only member of the Aelven pantheon actively fighting chaos before the Necroquake. Her time inside Slaanesh seems to have crystalized her opposition to chaos, where before the end times, she viewed chaos and Slaanesh as a tool. Now she knows the true threat slaanesh embodies and she is doing everything in her power to be sure that when he does escape, he is as weak as possible, while she has grown strong. Morathi is awesome.

This is not actually new art. This was originally from the End Times Khaine, and was most recently used as the background image while Teclis was narrating the Idoneth Deepkin reveal video from 2 years ago. Strange that they keep using this old piece of art to showcase new releases.

Hello all. After months of work, I have finally completed my Lumineth Wind Spirit. I posted an earlier version of this video in the anvil of Apotheosis thread, but thought that I should share the finished miniature here. I decided to try my hand at using the Character creation tools in the latest Generals Handbook. I'll still probably end up using this miniature as an allied Akhelian king, but for friendly games, it feels cool to have a unique warscroll with some sense of balance. Now that my Hero is complete, I can begin working on my Lumineth force proper. It has been a blast creating this design from concept to completion. I look forward to sharing the painted miniature soon, and I also look forward to seeing what other unique creations people come up with the flesh out the Lumineth in Age of Sigmar.

I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect the Lumineth to be significantly expanded with their next battle tome. Down the road, GW has certainly laid the seeds for futures miniature releases. But I cant imagine that being earlier than 2-3 years off. Considering what GW's current trend with updated battletome releases, our most likely/hopeful outcome would be that when AOS 3.0 gets released, and they start the battletome refresh cycle again, we might get another generic hero to accompany that release and updated tome. That still would be a few years off.

This seems to be the case for most mounted characters from my experience. For example, and Akhelian King now costs 230 points, but creating basically the same warscroll through Anvil of Apotheosis comes out to around 400 points, not even including some of the Kings more unique abilities. The points/DP for most created characters skew way higher than GW offical warscrolls. Which I think is great to help people argue their case to allow them in friendly games/tournaments.

My Lumineth creation, as he currently stands. Here is a link to a 360 Video of the Miniature I have sculpted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv9GTRs_n1s