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Yeah, once the ships have split up, then dreadwood allows us to get at one ship per turn. But, they can still disengage and run away. A 9+ kurnoth unit is probably needed to get in enough damage.

Your in luck as I've been meaning to write this one up. Last week I was at the hallowed Warhammer World. One of my games was Border War against Kharadron Overlords (with the new battletome) for the first time. My list: Gnarlroot, Ancient (general), Drycha, Wraith, Archie, 10 Spites, 2x5 Spites, 2x6 Kurnoth Scythes, Hive, Skullroot. He goes first. His entire 2000pt army (minus 1 engineer) in 4 boats teleports to my flank, 9 inches away: Drycha, Wraith and 5 Spites fall to heavy gunfire. The Ancient is now my single remaining source of spells and shooting. Ouch. My turn. I could probably get 6 Kurnoths and some Spites to the boats, but I won't be able to pile them all in, and next turn he would just disengage, teleport 9 inches away to another flank and shoot. Whilst he keeps the army together in one chunk I have no chance in a fight. Instead, I ignore him, place a wood, cast hive, send everything to the objectives and kill his lone engineer on the backline objective. I double turn and hunker down, scoring them all again. My remaining army is now placed (in the direction on the photo at the end): Bottom Objective: 6 Kurnoths, 5 Spites Left Objective: 6 Kurnoths Top Objective: 10 Spites Right Objective: Ancient And Archie is stood between the bottom and right objectives, blocking teleportation. He splits his army, placing a boat near as he can to each objective and shoots. I have to sit there and just take it. Back to my turn, there is literally nothing I can do. If I move off the objectives to engage in melee, he'll just redeploy and take the objectives. Doing nothing guarantees that I'll get all the points. By the end of turn 3, my army, unable to move, fight, or get any spells/shooting in range, is dwindling and he has only lost a single model (the engineer). However, I'm winning 25pts to 7pts. He considers quitting as he doesn't think he can catch up. However, we calculate if he gets first turn next, wins ALL the objectives, then keeps them all to the end of the game, we'll both have 25 points, and he'll win on models killed. We decide to play on. I now have remaining: Bottom Objective: 5 Kurnoths Left Objective: 3 Kurnoths Right Objective: Ancient And Archie is stood between the bottom and right objectives, blocking teleportation. He wins the turn roll. 5 Kurnoths are fired at from about 1000pts of models and go down on the final dice roll; the already disembarked Duardin are already in range of the objective. Then the Ancient gets shot until almost dead, charged, killed and objective taken. Archie is shot out. One objective to go and I'm down to 3 Kurnoths. A small ship full of 10 Duardin charges them to get in range of the objective. They are not able to disembark, so my models outnumber him three to one. He rolls to fight: (Blue dies are the objectives) All the Kurnoths survive! My turn to attack. If I take out the ship, then it'll explode, the 10 Duardin will fall out taking the objective and he wins the game. If the ship survives, I win. It's tense. I roll..... ....The Kurnoths deal 1 more damage than required. Ship explodes. I lose the game. Of course, that night whilst trying to sleep I remember I could have just attacked the Duardin inside the ship instead, and won the game. Doh! Takeaway thoughts: I really sucked at deployment. Instead I should have put battleline forward to take the shooting with everything else back out of range of any teleporting ships. Plus the army spread out wide as possible to block any backline teleporting, allow access to the objectives and to try to get him to split his army. Had I done this it would have been a very different game. Taking two Wraiths would have resulted in them both being instantly shot to pieces. This is making me reconsider the usefulness of taking a second one: If one of them is vulnerable, then the second one is likely to be too. The Ancient lasted as long as he did because as well as being able to soak damage, he wasn't considered a threat (unlike Drycha) or essential to my plans (unlike the Wraith). Sounds counterintuitive, but it's something to consider when picking him. The Kurnoths, even without re-rolling saves (tanglethorn doesn't work in shooting phase) were my damage soaking stars. However, in this game, Kurnoths with Bows would have really helped. I might have destroyed a ship or two, and won the game by turn 3.

I've been rethinking Gnarlroot, and I'm starting to think it's the TLA general glade. Our other wizards are either named or small and squishy to benefit from the artefact and trait. Looking at trying this list next. Light on bodies - just 32. I considered dropping 3 Kurnoths for dryads or tree revs and switch up the wyrm to a skullroot. Maybe swap 6 scythes for 2x3 greatswords. Not set on the 2nd wraith spell either. Thoughts? Allegiance: Sylvaneth - Glade: GnarlrootBranchwraith (80) - Artefact: Spiritsong Stave - Deepwood Spell: Throne of VinesBranchwraith (80) - Deepwood Spell: Deadly HarvestArch-Revenant (100)Drycha Hamadreth (320) - Deepwood Spell: RegrowthTreelord Ancient (260) - General - Trait: Nurtured by Magic - Artefact: Chalice of Nectar - Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony5 x Spite-Revenants (60)5 x Spite-Revenants (60)5 x Spite-Revenants (60)6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400) - Scythes6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400) - ScythesOutcasts (100)Spiteswarm Hive (50)Gladewyrm (30)Total: 2000 / 2000 Wounds: 112

Awesome, thanks. I've always avoided using a tla or Gnarlroot, but totally going to try a Gnarlroot tla supporting a Kurnoth blob with in my next game. I often struggle with being able to get my woods further than the middle of the board, so a 2nd line tla should help.

Outside of LOTC, do you think it's usually best to run the tla with a treelord, in order to make that stomp reliable? Or are you mostly keeping the tla out of combat? Are you putting the gnarlroot trait and artefact on the tla? The temptation is to throw the gnarlroot artefact on the dryad summoner - but that feels a waste

I'm building my first Mangler Squig and I'd like to try and make him work as both Loonboss and Regular versions. What do people consider as the differences between the two versions? Looking at the build instructions, the armour plates and non armour are for either version. Then the Loonboss has one "chain" configuration plus Mooncutter grot on the top. Whereas the regular version has a different chain configuration with a Mooncutter grot on the lower Squig. Looking at the rules, the lower mooncutter grot on the regular version makes zero sense as the grots on the regular only fight with sticks. Which sort of breaks GWs WYSIWYG approach. But, ok, I can ignore that. It makes me think that really, the only difference that matters is the Grot on the top Squig. Everything else is cosmetic. So, I'm planning on following the Loonboss version. But, I'll magnetise the Loonboss Grot so I can switch him with the regular guy. My concern is that the grots sit quite nicely in the Squigs grooves, but putting in the magnets will destroy that and they'll slide about. Anyone else had magnetised mangler success?

Given that Cites have tank battleline, which are fairly similar to Treelords, there is recent precedence for it.

You don't even need Outcasts if you only want a single battalion. Treelord Ancient (260)Treelord Ancient (260)Branchwraith (80)Branchwraith (80)9 x Kurnoth Hunters (600)10 x Dryads (100)5 x Spite-Revenants (60)5 x Tree-Revenants (80)Treelord (180)Treelord (180)Lords of the Clan (60)Spiteswarm Hive (50)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Wounds: 123 Or, for the same points and wounds, switch battleline to: 10 x Spite-Revenants (120)5 x Spite-Revenants (60)5 x Spite-Revenants (60)

And here's the issue - Drycha +6 Kurnoths still feels like the better choice. Alarielle is still going to die quickly against good opponents. (Personally, I'd always have her summon those 20 Dryads to bubblewrap her.) Whilst the point drops are great, and really needed for those units, I don't think they change our top lists, which are essentially Kurnoth spam. Going to be trying both Ancients and Kurnoth bows in my next friendly games, but I'm not expecting much. Given the points drops, I tried making a list based around Treelords varieties. But you quickly run into max 4 Behemoths limit (It's not possible to take a full Lords Of The Clan battalion in 2000 points due to that limit!). Now, if Vanilla Treelords were Oakenbow battleline then there are good Treelord lists (Durthu, 2xAncient, 5xVanilla, 2xBranchwraith, Lords Of The Clan). But without it, I still struggle for uses of Vanillas - I'd still rather spend 20 points more for Kurnoths.

I hadn't seen the Japanese version, which seems much more sensible. Guess I'm going to have to move to France now that I've spent all night building 300 more Spites . (Just the thought of buying that many makes me shudder).

Right then, new list: Winterleaf 320 Spite Revenants 1 branchwraith (general) 2000 points. 325 wounds. Done.

...Making them even more useless than before. They need a huge point drop right now.

Got Sylvaneth, and some mages, want tanks. First pass of a list ended up with this. Like the idea of trying it, but doubt I'm going to hold any objectives with 21 models. I'd probably Deepstrike two groups of Kurnoth + tank. Going to try a total rethink.... Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Living CitySteam Tank with Commander (250)- GeneralBattlemage (90)Steam Tank (200)Steam Tank (200)Steam Tank (200)9 x Kurnoth Hunters (600)- Scythes3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)- Greatswords3 x Gyrocopters (180)1 x Gyrobombers (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Wounds: 130

Talking about battleshock shenanigans: Am I correct in saying that all battleshock tests happen at exactly the same time? So when taking into account units that effect the bravery roll on other units (spites, outcasts etc), the units just have to be alive and in range at the start of the battleshock phase. I also don't include any models that died during melee, shooting etc.

Recently played a game against Ironjawz. 6 Scythe Kurnoths with kernel easily took out Gordrakk (not all of them were in range either). Sadly he had already taken out Drycha. But overall, I was out ahead in that fight. I found my Spite screens not providing much defence at all to orky battleline. 31 attacks from 10 Spites would mostly vanish to rend, then get effectively halved again due to 2 wounds per ork. Then when defending, the spites would just melt away. But, if they hold up for at least one turn in combat then they've done their job of diverting the enemy, right? Still trying to figure out how big my screens really need to be to be effective. And trying to find reasons to drop my block of 30 Dryads. My game was Knife to the Heart. I was on the upper hand, but he cleared away enough chaff from around the objective to be able to teleport in another unit 9" away, charge the remaining models and instant win. Never like that battleplan.

I wear nocry gloves, designed for chefs, as soon as I start on anything more than sprue nubs. Still have nerve damage in my first finger from 6+ months ago when I tried cutting through scenery plastic and slipped. Stitches were required. I now have a hobby saw too, which is great fun for the thicker stuff.

Agreeing with everything @Trevelyan says above on summoned Dryad Teleporting. Yes, that's how it worked in the old tome, and I don't think the language has changed significantly to require a reinterpretation (unlike Throne Of Vines where it now omits anything about stacking). Also compare these two: Navigate Realmroots: Instead of making a normal move in your movement phase, 1 friendly SYLVANETH unit wholly within 6" of an AWAKENED WYLDWOOD can navigate the realmroots. If it does so, remove that unit from the battlefield and then set it up again wholly within 6" of another AWAKENED WYLDWOOD and more than 9" from any enemy units. Dreadwood Sinister Ambush: You can use this command ability once during each of your turns, at the end of your movement phase. If you do so, pick 1 friendly DREADWOOD unit wholly within 18" of a friendly DREADWOOD HERO. Remove that unit from the battlefield and then set it up again anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy units. To me it seems clear that Dryads summoned that turn cannot be moved via Realmroots but can be moved via Dreadwood, which you are spending a CP for the privilege to do so. Also, you could move an ordinary unit (to get in range of a hero?) and then Dreadwood teleport them. In turn 1, if I really want to teleport a blob of models, I've got three units of battleline available. Meanwhile, my summoning Dryads ensures I've always got at least 10 guarding the backline, and then once I've summoned another unit, the previous ones can run/teleport into the gaps left by my advancing army. The thing I don't like is it often results in having multiple blocks of identical looking Dyrads tightly looped around each other inside the wood. In the next Sylvaneth book (v3, in maybe 2022 ?) I'd like Sylvaneth to generate one free teleporting token each turn. Dreadwood would allow you to spend CPs for teleporting tokens. Tokens can be spent on to teleport a unit instead of moving. Not going to happen, but would be super nice.

I didn't include anything for unbind there. Yeah, as I mentioned in previous post, I guess it depends on how magicy your enemy is as to whether to use throne or not.

Yeah, throne plus stave is amazing Very good points. With double wraith, yeah, that's a strong way of doing it, which I hadn't thought about. I always assumed second wraith was solely as backup incase the first died. Definitely seen a few lists with single wraith and throne and no artefact though. Often on lower point lists, where there isn't much to play with and no artefacts spare. The other problem with this is that first summons is likely to be out of unbind range (assuming setup), and I feel that first turn summon is fairly important. So, at 1000 points I'm still not sure if I'd cast throne. Maybe it's useful just to take in case, for example, I run into a high casting army and really need better rolling. I always plan that on turn 4, after my final summons, the wraith would teleport or run closer to the action, and throw a spell turn 5 into the action. In reality, I'll forget or it won't be possible to do anything or the game will finish earlier.

I keep seeing lists with Branchwraith + Throne and no artefact In lists where you can't reasonably give her an artefact, I was fairly certain Thrones is a trap, so did some maths.... Without thrones you'll be summoning 4 times (turns 1 to 4) at 58%, giving 2.32 successful summons on average. With the throne, first let us assume throne works, then you'll be summoning 3 times (turns 2, 3 and 4) at 83%, giving you on average 2.49 successful summons. On a bad day, you'll fail thrones (17% chance) and the following turns you'll really need Dryads, so will be stuck at 58%, giving 1.74 average. If I've got the maths right, then we're down to 2.36 average successful summons overall. Plus with throne we're down to max 3 successes instead of 4, losing the very useful early summon. Plus you can't move her out of danger without losing your bonus.

Agreed .... but maybe just maybe, with good wood placement, placing chalice on the Wraith (instead of wasting a turn with throne) and summoning 10 Dryads per turn might be enough to gum up the enemy. Yeah, you're going to loose most of them. 750pts is hard to build Especially when throwing in a TLA. @Anca How about the following. With this you can teleport everything except the Wraith in turn one. 20 Dryads will last longer. Also maybe put the Tree Revenants in frontline combat, then teleport off to an objective before they all die. Sadly I suspect you might not have enough Dryads to summon (another 16 on your 32 would definitely be enough once stuff starts dying) Grove Gnarlroot Leaders: Tree Lord Ancient (general) (300) Spell-Lore: Regrowth Command Trait: Nurtured by magic BranchWraith (80) Spell-Lore: Verdurous Harmony Artefact: Chalice of Nectar Battleline: 20 Dryads (200) 10 Tree Revenants (160) Total (740) pts

If you want a general tourney list, then I would probably drop Alarielle for 9 Kurnoths and an Arch Revenant. Then switch Gnarlroot for Winterleaf. That's a reasonable starting place. There will be better variations earlier in the thread if you can find them.

Ok, so I finally managed to play this list. Was very worried about placing 1320 points in three models. I went for board control and defensive, with alpha strike. Stonger list than I was expecting, but not sure it would work in a tournament setting where I'm going to get shot quickly. Setup Setup front line, everything 24" from enemy. Out of range most spells, which are 18". Two objectives my side, two the other. I get the first turn due to fewer drops - 7 vs 8 Right side of the board: Double sized starting wood in my side, far right. As far forward as possible. Branchwraith sits behind the wood, out of unbind range, close enough to wood for summoning. Summon using three dice (Gnarlroot), which only fails the once. Tree Revs sit on my right objective for the entire game. Alarielle summons wood as far forward as possible, and as near to enemy right side objective (same side as the summoning wood). Durthu (ghyrstrike) and 10 Spites teleport. Shoots. Charges down length of wood (ensuring keeps +2 attacks), into enemy backline, but Spites fail the charge. Stomps, and destroys one Kurnoth-like unit in melee. In his turn, he counters by committing a big monster, locking them up for two turns. I teleport more Dryads as a sacrifice to lock him up for a third. He ultimately wins, but is down to 2 wounds. Most importantly, no one takes that objective until then. He tries to get down to my right objective, but fails. Even if he could get there, I would have teleported the Tree Revs over to his now uncovered objective. Left side of the board: Alarielle moves fairly central, but still in my side. Summons 20 Dryads which bubble wrap her and my left objective. Throne of vines (eventually). Throws spells around. Shoots 30". Never gets into melee the whole game. Two units of 5 spites plus 10 Dryads run to spread out across the left side of the board. Drycha moves behind them, to exactly 18" from large target, shooting 20 attacks from turn one. Spell attacks from turn two. I never charge anyone of this side of the board. Instead letting enemy charge and keeping combat spread out. In my next turn I also summon another wood squeezed between my units and the enemy. Enemy spends three turns moving, charging, and chewing through units, eventually breaking through to Drycha. By this point, most things are dead. Even if he had have gotten through Drycha, then Alarielle and 20 Dryads awaited. Scoring: Every turn, I score my two objectives, while he scores his left one. Eventually he takes his right side objective. But it's not enough. Gnarlroot: Three dice to summon is amazing. I can never use the healing ability because I keep the wraith away from everything. Reroll 1s is good. The 6+ save I never even consider wasting a CP on. What might have stopped me: Turn one allowed me to get into position. But getting turn one really wasn't guaranteed. Failing the wood drop and delaying Durthu a turn may have meant him gaining that objective and me unable to take it. He didn't have any long range shooting. He had lots of magic, but many spells failed and I had 4 usable unbinds. He never was able to double turn me. He left enough gaps for me to place woods where I wanted. He was never able to throw large threats forward to my backline.

Might be situationally worth playing these guys? Bad: - Shooting is worthless. - Unique, so can only take the one. - Worst wounds per cost unit in the book. They're going to die 25% quicker than a min sized unit of Hoppers. Good: - Per point, average melee damage is on a par with Boingrot Bounderz (better against save - and 6, worse against save 5 or less) - Move 12, that's guaranteed (no roll), and double distance pile in. So, glass cannon objective stealers to take over Hoppers if you want a big more punch, reliable movement and don't care about them instantly dieing.

Thanks for the details. Sounds like we do have some options if played correctly. Little sad that the best option for Living City comes down, once again, to Kurnoths. Love them and all, but they are always the answer.