dmorley21

So to clarify, the list I run is Death Stalkers/Chainguard and I posted a link to a PDF of my list. The list I wrote out isn't one I have used, but it placed 8th at a recent competitive event. The Wraith and Stalkers are tax of running the battalion. I find the Wraith is great... as he's rarely targeted so he's a great artefact holder. The Stalkers also aren't targeted ever, so they become somewhat versatile. With the recent general that FEC have, I can't imagine not taking Death Stalkers.

I'm not sure how competitive my current list is as I haven't played competitively yet - just locally. But I run a four drop list that looks like this: DeathStalkersChainguardList.pdf I love starting with 3 command points to fish for the WoT if I feel like it's needed and I love that it's 4 drops. Meanwhile, Ben Savva (a seemingly really good competitive player) took a Shrieker Host/Chainguard build to Masters. He had poor results playing against some of the best players of the game, but later tweeted that he thought it was still a competitive build, though I personally think Shrieker Host builds need some point drops. It's also worth noting his list came in at 1930, so he had 3 command points to start. As for the list that finished 8th at SAGT, it has one battalion but is 1850 points so it starts with four command points. That list was: Dreadblade Harrow (general) w/ Midnight Tome and General Trait "Cloaked in Shadow" Mounted Knight of Shrouds Cairn Wraith w/ Aetherquartz Brooch Vampire Lord (ally) 10 Chainrasp Horde 30 Grimghast Reapers 20 Grimghast Reapers 4 Glavewraith Stalkers 4 Glavewraith Stalkers 10 Bladegheist Revenants 12 Myrmourn Banshees Death Stalkers Chronomantic Cogs It's totals were: 1850 pts, 4 command points, 110 wounds, 7 drops. You can visit AoS Shorts for more information on that. My point is, that I really think Nighthaunt lists need to find a way to start with several command points in order to be successful.

I agree with all of this. I think players are starting to move toward builds that try to increase the amount of CPs, whether that's through buying them incrementally with low point lists, have battalions, using the aetherquartz brooch, and using Kurdoss or some combination of all of them; and I think that's the way to play Nighthaunt competitively. The list the placed top 10 at the recent Australian event was particularly interesting to me though I still think I like double battalion builds.

I use Cogs because I love to deep strike units. Rolling a 7" is so much better than a 9". I also start the game with 3 command points, so it allows me to fish for a Wave of Terror and not worry as much about failing the charge.

I haven't played against a Stardrake, but behemoths is something I really struggle with playing against. Myrmourns can be great and destroy behemoths if they get extra attacks and get off a Wave of Terror, but that's difficult to pull off consistently. I don't use Torments or Chainghasts when I run Blades, but in that case I use Blades the same way you would likely use Hexwraiths - to hunt down small heroes or units.

It looks like the game just comes with the standard Myrmourn Banshee models based on the picture.

I think people are taking the "for all players" out of context. At least I took it as meaning a preview for all game systems.

I haven't used it, but it does seem like it could be very useful. I remember it was mentioned on one of the Just Saying podcasts as being a good investment.

Way back in this thread I debated with several others about building a NH list like this. In the end, it really came down to play style. I haven't finished assembling 2000 pts of Nighthaunt yet, but I do plan to run double battalions. In the end, it really boils down to the following thoughts for me: Command points. Nighthaunt really need them to be successful. Re-rolling charges, teleporting units, and +1 attacks are all really important to winning a game. You can get extra command points with battalions or by running a list that is light on points. If you run a list that is light on points, which also grants you an opportunity at a triumph. I really do think you need to do one or the other to be successful. Characters. One of the problems with the battalions are how they limit you character choice. Most battalions rely on the fragile character to stay alive. The ones that don't rely on the character staying alive feature less optimal characters. However, the battalions give you an artefact. So while a Cairn Wraith and a Tomb Banshee aren't great, I do think with an artefact (Midnight Tome, Pendant of the Fell Moon, Aetherquartz Brooch, etc.) that they are suddenly useful. Battleline. If you take double battalions, it forces your battleline quite a bit. There's only one battalion that features Reapers, Spirit Hosts, and Hexwraiths while Chainrasps get two. Only the Spirit Host battalion allows you to fulfill your battleline requirements. So can you find a battalion combo that lets you take battleline you're comfortable with? Drops. Lowering your drop count is an important part of taking two battalions, and if you're not trying accomplish a low drop count I'm not really sure that two battalions is the way to go. So you have to make that work as well. This really boils it down to low drops versus running different support characters. If you want a Vampire Lord, Guardian of Souls, named character, Spirit Torment, Dreadblade Harrow... you're better off just skipping the battalions so you can have your characters and your units. I kind of mentioned this, but my two favorite battalions are Death Stalkers and Shrieker Host because their effects don't rely on a certain character surviving. I also think they are both nice complements to the army. All of my lists feature one of those. Chainguard and Shroudguard are probably my favorites to pair with those two because they give me a character I want (Reikenor/GoS) and are decent even though they do rely on a character surviving. This is all theoretical from me though as I have only tried out individual battalions at 1000 pts at this point.

I just read my first Black Library book (Soul Wars) and am grateful for this thread. Does anyone know if any of the stories take place in the realm of Hysh? Thanks!

Yeah, due to my meta, I've never had their debuff work. The 2 damage on a 6 to wound though, that gets overlooked IMO. Makes their damage output equal to Blades on a charge without a ST. But you're still right, as I've found the ability to retreat and charge to be a very versatile ability. I wouldn't consider it exceeding for the reasons you mentioned, but when you've got 4 units and a hero that nullify inspiring presence and make you re-roll battleshock rolls of 1 and you subtract all bravery by 1 by being Nighthaunt... you're going to get the ability off at least once a game even against armies that that seem built against it from my limited experience (I haven't played against BoC or Stormcast).

Yeah, I'm really curious to see how it plays. When I tried out Shrieker Host, I did things the other way... focused on Harridans and ran Myrmourns as tiny units. The Harridans are good (very underrated IMO), however in Shriker Host they really shine against horde units, and Reapers already do that well enough. Myrmourns can fill a much different role though.

I'm not the person you're asking, but both KoS and the ST are great support for the more killy units in NH (Blades, Reapers, Harridans, Banshees). I don't think they're great support for Spirit Hosts, which you said you were running.

I'm surprised the VL ally didn't make it for you. Also, has anyone looked at the list that Ben Savva is taking to UK Masters? It'a very interesting - I can't wait to see how it does.

It just seems too tough to use in NH. The spell is tough to cast, there's no way to buff her casting, then you have to beat the movement. Maybe she'd be better in a LoN army where a mega character can cast her spell.

I have found my games go better when I don't rely on the hero buffs. This allows me to have more board control and to be more selective with what I target. Reapers don't need buffs to take on hordes. Small units of Blades, Harridans, or Death Stalker units are good hero hunters. I will surround a Guardian with Chainrasps, especially if I take that battalion.

That is interesting. I honestly don't get why it's not. Maybe there's hope for the future.

I just returned to the hobby this summer and had success using the white primer by Army Painter for my Nighthaunt models. It was the one my hobby shop recommended to me.

Just curious, since you've actually played with it, how different do you think giving it the "hero" keyword would be? How do you like running an MSU style list? I know one like that recently won a tournament in Sweden. It seems like a good way to get board control, deepstrike, and have more options to get the Wave of Terror. Also, I wish testing was more of an option for me. But, reading actual reports is probably the next best thing.

As someone new to AoS, I don't get the love for the Mourngul. I get that it used to be good, but it's not anymore and it does not fit the aesthetic of Nighthaunt at all. Honestly, it doesn't even look like a ghost. I would much rather figure out uses for the black coach and/or see it get the "Hero" keyword that it really ought to have. Also, has anyone used the Coven Throne as an allie yet?

I thought that the problem with Reapers in LoN was more that they can bring them back and less about Vanhel's. All of your other changes would have to be addressed in the next GHB (points adjustments, battalions) or a new book, which for all intents and purposes is not happening. I do think that the Shroudguard and Black Coach are both at least feasible. And plenty of armies get updates from FAQ's/Errata/GHB. I don't see why Nighthaunt wouldn't. I didn't know about this, as I never played 1.0. That would be quite nice. I don't see Wave of Terror getting any better. If they were to change it, I would changed it to any successful charge made by a unit that just came up from the underworlds or a 10+ any other time. Makes the army more like the shock troops they're meant to be. I'm glad to see there's a lot of support for making the Black Coach a leader. I really don't understand why it's not a leader.

You make very valid points. Maybe I'll purchase her one day... after I finish having a playable 2k list. I wish she was in a battalion. And on that note... I'm not sure how Errata/FAQ's typically work, but come December, we'll be halfway through this season of AoS. So a bit of wish listing, but if they were to make a few small, realistic tweaks for Nighthaunt, what would you all like to see? Here's mine: Make it so Shroudguard gives the hero the 4+/5+ as well. Pretty self explanatory... after all the Blades are supposed to be guarding the hero. Make the Black Coach a Leader. This would be a game changer, and make the model go from rarely used to frequently used IMO. It would be our most durable character, a solid choice for general, and would be something that could really take advantage of some artefacts that our army can't take advantage of currently. Make Deathmages allies. This makes sense for fluff reasons - and the Mortis Engine really looks like it ought to be Nighthaunt. Both Necromancers and the Mortis Engine would be useful allies. I think those three changes are all reasonable and would all be boons for the army. What are everybody else's thoughts?

I'm reminded of a quote from Amy Tan's short story, "Rules of the Game." The quote is, "Strongest wind cannot be seen." I bring this up because a) I'm a teacher, and b) I feel like Lady Olynder is a terrible smell hero assassin because she's such a presence. I know that if I was facing an army that featured Lady O, I'd make her a target. Meanwhile, if I was facing an army with two units of 4 Glavewraith Stalkers, I'd probably just ignore them until they got in my way. You have some merit about the Harridans and Bladegheists. However, that's also 30 more points for one more trooper. Granted, they're still not the greatest; but maybe they do have a use.

I felt similar when I played my first games (1k) with a unit of 10 Harridans. They were quite good, and didn't necessarily need support. I wished for Bladegheists at times just because with the ability to retreat and charge I could have taken out support heroes pretty easily had I had them instead, but the Harridans worked well without support. I do wonder if we focus too much on getting our troops support heroes; when our support heroes are squishy, expensive, and difficult to keep things lined up so they can support anyway. I'd have no problem taking both a unit of 12 myrmourns and a unit of 4. In my limited experience playing AoS and playing WHFB for years before, the advantage of small units is that they tend to get ignored by opponents, especially if you set them up to be away from objectives and the rest of your army. Opponents don't necessarily want to commit to dealing with them and not dealing with more pressing matters. Maybe that's just the opponents I play though. On another note... Let's talk about Glavewraith Stalkers. I've been completely overlooking them as it seems like they're outclassed in almost every way by other units. However, I'm starting to think I was looking at them wrong. First off, they're a unit that doesn't need support heroes. With a drummer, they can retreat and charge. If they charge or get charged, they get to re-roll their attacks. Quick math, but a unit of 4 then statistically scores 6 hits, 4 wounds. This means each model ought to deal a wound in combat. Now granted, they have no rend so a lot of those wounds will be saved. But, they seem like an ideal unit to hunt down the lesser characters of other armies, which is kind of their point in the fluff. For instance, when I played LoN, they would have excelled at hunting down my opponent's Necromancers and Wight King. What are people's thoughts on this use for them? I've seen people say they used them to sit on objectives, but has anybody ran them to hero hunt?

I wonder if this is also a case for running battalions. That extra CP it gives you can be clutch.