dmorley21

Thanks for sharing your experience and lots of lessons learned. I think sharing experiences is going to be important for learning to play KO well, they're just such a different army. I'm curious how important you found your drops to be. In the point above you mention that the double turn is more crippling if it's rounds 2/3 instead of 1/2. Does that mean drops don't matter as much?

@wanderingrogue First off, thanks for the insight on WW. I had never watched the show before... as video shows just don't work for me. Podcasts work better for me. But as a player coming to KO, it was all great to hear. I would disagree that it's a bad book. I play Nighthaunt, and that's a bad book because it features redundant warscrolls, overcosted and underpowered units, and a lot of useless warscrolls. I do think the anti synergies in KO is a little ridiculous, but I see what they were trying to do: give a reason for units to leave boats. I also agree that it's unfortunate that the new hero is such an automatic character to I ckude as your general. As for competitive lists, I think a lot will depend on how important drops end up being. If low drops are essential, armies are going to be pretty mono build with the Iron Sky Battalion. If not, I see a much wider range of builds as there's a lot of interesting choices you can make. So I think that will be important to test out and see.

I haven't played KO yet, but have played several games against Cities quite a bit. It's a great army with a ton of builds. But apart from Irondrakes, their shooting dies from a stiff brief in my experience (I play Nighthaunt). And most magic heavy lists will feature handgunners and/or crossbowmen, not Irondrakes. Most of their magic casters are pretty easy to take out as well if you can get within range. It would have been nice to see KO have a lore where they can manipulate weather for magic or just to have more anti-magic tools. However, I feel as if in a match up with a Hallowheart list, KO definitely has a good chance to come out ahead thanks to their maneuverability, firepower, and decent saves.

Thanks @Neck-Romantic. I've actually never played against Slaves to Darkness ever, so I have nothing to base anything off of for this game. It's good to know about their long charge ranges and ability to dish out impact hits. That's good to hear. I've enjoyed reading your posts.

Hi everyone. With the new book, I'm thinking about selling some of my Nighthaunt to play KO. I just started playing AoS with the Soul Wars release but used to play Dwarfs back in the days of WHFB, so I have a bit of an affinity for Duardin though I always hated playing gunlines as I like movement shenanigans. Anyway, I've always loved the look of KO and now after getting their new book on the app, am really interested in playing them. However, they seem to have a really unique play style and it would help me to read and watch some battle reports to get a feel for the army. Outside of reading posts here - which have been great... please keep the battle reports with the new book coming! - are there any other good resources for learning about playing KO? Thanks!

These are both true. I've honestly never attempted to utilize RotSH because it's just lackluster unless you're running Spirit Hosts and/or Hexwraiths, which I have have. The more small units you can have, the more likely you can get off WoT's... even if they aren't going to wipe out a unit, they'll help. I just don't really think our army has any game with focusing on healing. This is a movement focused, counter punch army. Being able to deepstirke half of your forces and not being limited to only appearing at the board's edge is really our power. Like @EnixLHQ mentioned, I like to have one big block and then small units to increase my threats and give my opponent more to think about. On that note, I'll be playing a Dolorous Guard list for the first time (and using Olynder in an actual game for the first time) this Tuesday against Slaves to Darkness. I haven't played that army before, so anyone have any tips? Here's my list: Lady O - general, Reaping Scythe Reikenor - Soul Cage Guardian of Souls - Shademist, Aetherquartz Brooch Dreadblade Harrow - Pendant of the Fell Wind (I don't have a KoSoES or else I'd have that here instead. But teleporting to use PotFW is always useful.) 10 Chainrasp Horde 5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwriaths 30 Grimghast Reapers 5 Bladegheist Revenants / 5 Bladegheist Revenants 10 Dreadscythe Harridans Chronomantic Cogs / Purple Sun Dolorous Guard My general idea with this list is threats. Olynder will deploy on the board with the Hexwraiths to be one threat. Reikenor will deploy on the board and try to get the Cogs up near an objective so that he can camp on it with re-rolling saves and two casts. I'll speed up Cogs the turn I decide to deepstrike most of my other units. I've been running the Death Stalkers battalion before this and have a 50% win rate but am hoping Olynder with Dolorous Guard can be a legitimate threat.

I've never really had a problem with taking advantage of deploying in the Underworld. We're actually blessed because we don't have to deploy near a table edge or a terrain feature. So worst case scenario, I can always just pop up with even a unit of 30 Reapers 9" in front of my opponent. I probably had a Wave of Terror go off with my Chainrasps versus the Plague Monks. It's amazing how big of a difference that can make. Really depends on how you want to play. I would discourage the named heroes at 1000 pts... I try to run Reikenor at that level but it's typically a waste of points. You'll probably want a Guardian of Souls just to have a caster and Dreadblade Harrows are fantastic generals. After that, figure out which battleline troops you like the best. Hexwraiths are only useful in battalions, but the other three all have their place. The rest of your troops will then be selected to balance your battleline's weaknesses.

I haven't played a Verminlord list, but have had success against the other two. Plague Monks do an insane amount of damage, but they also die relatively easily. Throwing blobs of Chainrasps at them (with +1 attack from a Vamp or KoS) can usually get the job done... just plan on losing your unit in return. Reapers can also do the job, but even though I have often run two blobs of Reapers it hurts to lose them. Meanwhile, Reapers are great against Stormfiends that are units of 6 (or 9 previously), especially in the Death Stalkerss battalion. Hiding a unit of Reapers in the underworld as long as you have Cogs is the way to go here. Really, that's the way I deal with all shooting. I hide a few units and heroes in the underworld, then drop them when Cogs is turned up so I can re-roll charges if need be. It hurts when you don't make the charge, but you're making it more often than not (two shots at rolling a 7). I like to do this with Reapers as shooting units are typically 5+.

Good change of discussion. I don't have a lot of experience playing different factions, but for me my toughest opponent has been a Daughters of Khaine player. It didn't help that he was the best player that I've played against, but I came away from that game not having the slightest clue as to how I could have won. I enjoy playing against Cities of Sigmar quite a bit, but multiple units of Phoenix Guard are another tough nut for me to crack. I haven't played Fyreslayers since the FAQ and fear they will now be more difficult to play against as I won't be able to focus on just one death star anymore (I've been running Death Stalkers which was a great battalion when facing one super unit of troops).

Something like that would help, and could be done in White Dwarf. I like the idea I saw somewhere about tying the abilities to the realms as spirits from different realms may have different abilities. But, it really wouldn't be enough. Nighthaunt are not only a bad army, but they're an army with an identity crisis. Are they supposed to be a mobile glass cannon of an army with magic support? Welp, then why do they need to castle up with weak heroes in order to get their buffs? And why do they have trouble casting their spells? And why are their endless spells useless? Are they supposed to be a typical death army that regenerates? Welp, as we all know, they're not too great at that. Are they supposed to an endless horde of spirits that overwhelms the opponent? I hope not, but the models are too expensive points wise and an army like that really ought to have summoning. Are they supposed to be just another Legion of Nagash? If so, the next battletome will probably be more Legion of Grief than Nighthaunt. On top of that, there's obvious issues with some warscroll design. The warscrolls for our endless spells and Glaivewrath Stalkers just don't work. Reapers, Harridans, Bladegheists, Myrmourns, and Stalkers are far too redundant. Dreadblade Harrows come in boxes of 2... why? So, all in all, the army really just needs a new battletome IMO that has a clear vision for the army. Also, I hope Nighthaunt don't ever get a terrain piece - we're not an army that should have a terrain piece IMO. But being able to choose one terrain piece on the board before deployment to "haunt" would be cool.

Pendant of the Fell Wind a must IMO. The Beacon is powerful when you actually get the spell off, but in my experience that happens once or twice a game. Give it a try, but I'd recommend Aetherquartz Brooch or Wychlight Lantern over it.

Okay, a few things here. First off, both of these comments are largely correct. From the Undeworlds They Come does not work often as a turn one alpha strike for a host of reasons. It can, but it's not a viable strategy to plan around. It should simply be an option for you as a general. Secondly, a lot of people only choose to deep strike a couple choice units. IMO, this is not a good use of the trait. You should always deep strike half of your army. It gives your opponent a ton to think about, and lets you play the game as it develops. If your opponent knows half of your army is waiting to come on the board, they're going to change up how they're playing. They're going to really think about it, and have a lot more decisions to make and things to consider. This is so important, because the more decisions you can make your opponent make, the more likely they are to make bad decisions. Third, you should only deep strike stuff on your first turn if it really makes sense. I have found it's typically far more effective to drop units on turn 2 or turn 3. This allows you to deploy based on how the game is unfolding. Fourth, our deep strike is so powerful compared to other armies because we aren't limited to board edges. I know I can safely place a unit of 30 Reapers in the Underworld because I can always deep strike them just by placing them 9" in front of my opponent's forces. And if I wait until turn 2 or 3, I've probably dealt with some of the chaff that would be used to screen. Finally, I don't think Dolorous Guard should be deep struck. The battalion turns the general into an anvil, which is the type of unit you don't want off the table. You want that unit on the table so that your opponent has to deal with it while also keeping in mind that you have some dangerous units waiting to come on the board. Apologize about the spewing of my thoughts. Sometimes it helps me just to write stuff out like that. As for the lists @Mordread, they're both pretty good. I always like to think about how many threats I'm putting on the board in my opponent's eyes. Lady O with Dolorous Guard is a threat your opponent must deal with, so are 20 Bladegheists, so are 12 Myrmourns or a Black Coach. It's hard to target three different threats though so you're making your opponent make choices. And that's a good thing, because like I said earlier, the more choices your opponent makes the more likely they'll make one that you can take advantage of later in the game.

I'd second this. I only play NH, not LoG, so the extra mobility of the Bladegheists might be nice, but without a ST they're outshined by Harridans, Myrmourns, and Reapers. I'd disagree with dropping the Myrmourn Banshees. I'd say they're the best unit in LoG easily, and especially if you're playing OBR as their -2 rend will come in handy. I haven't played OBR yet, but against a high armor army like that you want high rend and mortal wounds. Myrmourns are the only high rend/damage unit that we have. Spirit Hosts and Hexwraiths don't hit hard, but can cause mortal wounds. In LoG I'd lean towards Spirit Hosts. If there is a spell you have access to that lowers rend, I would definitely recommend Reikenor. He also might be good to cast some endless spells that can pump out mortals. Aethervoid Pendulum, Purple Sun of Shyish, and Geminids are some of my favorites there.

I know we typically talk lists and tactics on here, which is great as I struggle with the hobby aspect myself. But I have a hobby question. Has anyone tried using "flying stems" with their Nighthaunt? I saw someone do this with Hexwraiths and thought it looked cool and wonder how it would look for other units/models.

Yeah... I wish DG was 2-4 Hexwraiths and one of ant hero and they guarded that hero. Would be so much more worth it. As is, I used that Mathhammer tool that got posted and even with the additional attack from the battalion the output of Hexwraiths is so bad. DG is definitely far from an auto include.

That's a good point. I am surprised they didn't course correct Reapers, and put them at 150 since they jumped them from 140 to 160 in GHB 19. I also thought a 10 point drop for Stalkers would have made sense (though they really need a 20 pt drop to be serviceable IMO).

I'd rather face a unit of 20 HGB than 30, but that's just me. However, I'm going to be that person and switch this back to focusing on Nighthaunt. I wasn't expecting points drops with the FAQ in the first place, so I guess I'll take what we got. I also don't expect any further changes... there's nothing that could be fixed with an FAQ/Errata/Designer Commentary IMO. Maybe making the WoT go off on 10+ modified or not, but then just makes Cogs more of an auto include. But really, I think we just need to accept that nothing significant is changing for us until we get a new book which will likely be years away. It's a shame, but it is what it is. I think lists that run Dolorous Guard and/or Death Riders are more serviceable now. DG because realistically you would take that battalion 9 times out of 10 to make one of Olynder or Kurdoss your general. Both are now 20 points cheaper. Not much, but something. The 40 pt drop for the Black Coach is really nice, but still I can only see its value in the Death Riders battalion. That battalion at its minimum is now 19.5 pts per wound, which is equal to Death Stalkers. It's unfortunate Hexwraiths aren't better (2" range and Reap Like Corn is really all they need), but at 14 pts per wound they're actually tied as our third best value unit with full hordes of Reapers and Harridans. Also, I think a lot of people have been trying to force the Forgotten Scions battalion with the Dolorous Guard, when that is not the best companion IMO. I'd rather run that battalion with Myrmourns, Bladegheists, or Reapers. So, we've got a few new tools to play with in 2020. I don't expect Nighthaunt's numbers to change much, but at least there's more ways to play the army.

The changes are good in a vacuum. As are the ones to the Mortarchs if you want to ally them. The problem is most lists only featured one of these at most. I really thought Reapers would drop to 150 since they jumped from 140 to 160. And I still have no clue how they justify the points for Stalkers. Oh well.

That was my understanding as well and how I've played in local one days where I was told I could deploy like that. I could be wrong though.

Okay, so I did some number crunching. At their minimum sizes, here's some number crunching on battalions: Shroudguard: 410/460 pts, 16/17 wounds, 25.7/27 pts per wound, 3 units, 0 battleline, 1 hero Deathriders: 760 pts, 37 wounds, 20.5 pts per wound, 4 units, 2 battleline, 1 hero The Condemned: 660 pts, 49 wounds, 13.5 pts per wound, 4 units, 2 battleline, 1 hero Chainguard: 580 pts, 45 wounds, 12.9 pts per wound, 3 units, 2 battleline, 1 hero Execution Horde: 540 pts, 32 wounds, 16.9 pts per wound, 4 units, 3 battleline, 1 hero Death Stalkers: 620 pts, 32 wounds, 19.4 pts per wound, 5 units, 2 battleline, 1 hero Shrieker Host: 520 pts, 22 wounds, 23.7 pts per wound, 5 units, no battleline, 1 hero The Forgotten Scions: 440 pts, 16 wounds, 27.5 pts per wound, 3 units, 0 battleline, 3 heroes The Dolorous Guard: 400 pts, 20 wounds, 20 pts per wound, 2 units, 2 battleline Other thoughts: Execution Horde and Dolorous Guard allow you to take 3 battleline. If you do so with DG, it drops the cost to 16 pts per wound and ups it to 480 pts. This might be useful for people who want low drops or want to focus on non-battleline units... though battleline units for NH are actually a strength IMO. I think The Forgotten Scions is interesting as giving Reapers, Bladegheists, or Myrmourns an extra attack without spending a command point is quite nice. Dreadblades make great generals but they are also great for carrying Pendant of the Fell Wind, Midnight Tome, or Aetherquartz Brooch. If I took it I'd probably make one the general with the Brooch and give the other one Pendant of the Fell Wind. Scions is also the only battalion that allows you to take two different types of heroes. The best use for either of the new battalions IMO is to run a low drop, 2 battalion list. They're both quite useful for that as they have a cheap minimum cost overall and help you get either heroes or battleline.

Yeesh. These battalions are a letdown. Nothing close to game changing and they're very much on par with our other battalions - interesting, useful, but maybe not worth the cost. One good thing is the unit tax. There's none for the Hex battalion and only a second Dreadblade for the Scions one. Makes me wish I had bought a box of Dreadblades instead of just one. I'm still not sold on Hexwraiths. If they had the Reaper scythes, it would really make them a strong unit. But the 4's to hit just isn't that reliable IMO. Also, if your general is a DH, chances are it won't always be able to take advantage of the bouncing wounds. Its purpose is to teleport around the board... not to run with a bodyguard.

Could be. But if you're choosing models for a promo image for that purpose, as I believe it's a new image, I don't know why you wouldn't choose models from the topic in question. Yeah, I'm worried about this. I much prefer the playstyle of NH to LoG even if the latter is better. Also, from a business perspective, I wonder if they chose to strengthen models that don't see much play. If so, I'd expect Harridans to be in a battalion.

I wonder if the picture of models that was posted that says it's Lady Olynder's Emerald Host is a clue for what will be in that battalion. It shows: Lady O 2 Dreadblade Harrows Chainrasp Horde Grimghast Reapers Myrmourn Banshees Black Coach If that combination of units ends up in a battalion, it would at the very least make a low drop force quite possible. The lore text also would seem to imply that the Emerald Host battalion would be a more offensive focused force. All speculation, but I'd imagine that stuff would be somewhat purposeful and relate to the actual battalion rules.

Hi everyone. Does the content for upcoming White Dwarf magazines usually get previewed? If so, when does that happen? I'm curious as it seems like there might be some Nighthaunt content in the upcoming magazine. I figured this was the thread to ask as previews are usually covered in this thread. Thanks.

If you run the Death Riders battalion, it would seem to be pretty easy. A Harrow + 2 units of Hexwraiths + Black Coach + Death Riders is 22 models for 1040 points.