Tournament - 2k Khorne list

[Lardidar]

Hi all

So I will be attending a tournament in June and it is likely to be m first games of AoS...I mid way through painting a Khorne list and was hoping for some advice on building it to 2k. (p) means painted so likely to stay in the list.

So Leaders:

Mighty lord (p) - unrivaled lust

Valkia the bloody - I loved watching her in heat two

Bloodsecrator (p)

Bloodsecrator - still not sure on banner stacking, I lean to no but I think two could still be useful for spreading the buff.

Bloodstoker

Daemon prince - wings and mark of slayer for reroll 1s to hit for all khorne within 8" and 1s to wound if he charged.

Battleline and other:

10x Bloodreavers (p)

10x Bloodreavers (p)

10x Bloodreavers (p)

10x Bloodreavers

5x Blood warriors (p)

5x Blood warriors (p)

3x Khorgoraths (p)

5x Wraithmongers

30x Bloodletters

Now I'm not going in the hopes of smashing everything up but I'd love to give each opponent a good game and myself a shot at winning a couple, so fellow generals....ideas?

 

 

[Blood&skulls]

Any reason for only using 10 bloodreavers per unit? Blood tithe sacrifices I assume?

[Killax]

I think the list set up looks rather good allready, though I see a lot of potential for The Goretide for this list. Not only because you allready run the Mighty Lord of Khorne and two Blood Warrior units but also because I feel the added speed is very welcome and the grand mayority of your models are Bloodbound and do fit that Battalion relatively easy. 

[Lardidar]

Yeah I kept them at 10 so they are all over the place...hopefully harder to blow off with a gun line but also easy enough to kill to wrack up tithe.

@Killax That is tempting but I'm not sure about locking up 120pts in battalion costs and the rejig needed for the extra warrior unit and two skullreapers and the exalted hero...although the hero looks good should I think to replace the second secrator.

[thejughead]

Hi all
So I will be attending a tournament in June and it is likely to be m first games of AoS...I mid way through painting a Khorne list and was hoping for some advice on building it to 2k. (p) means painted so likely to stay in the list.
So Leaders:
Mighty lord (p) - unrivaled lust
Valkia the bloody - I loved watching her in heat two
Bloodsecrator (p)
Bloodsecrator - still not sure on banner stacking, I lean to no but I think two could still be useful for spreading the buff.
Bloodstoker
Daemon prince - wings and mark of slayer for reroll 1s to hit for all khorne within 8" and 1s to wound if he charged.
Battleline and other:
10x Bloodreavers (p)
10x Bloodreavers (p)
10x Bloodreavers (p)
10x Bloodreavers
5x Blood warriors (p)
5x Blood warriors (p)
3x Khorgoraths (p)
5x Wraithmongers
30x Bloodletters
Now I'm not going in the hopes of smashing everything up but I'd love to give each opponent a good game and myself a shot at winning a couple, so fellow generals....ideas?
 
 

Rage of Khorne doesn't stack and the banners are very short range so getting them to overlap might be situational.


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[ledha]

you always need two bloodsecrator. I'll just pass on the mess "yes it stack, no it doesn't", but having one running while the other plant the banner for always having the battleshock immunity is very good, as well as buff spreading, and, more importantly, forcing the ennemy to deal with the second after having sniped the first bloodsecrator

[thejughead]

Two is always better than one for the reasons ledha listed


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[Lardidar]

Yeah, I'll play no stacking until a FAQ says to do because I would never want an unintentional boost but I think two is definitely what I want.

Any other opinions on the list? fun to play...relatively simple for a brand new player?

[thejughead]

I would add a Slaughter priest so you can take the Dark Feast battalion


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[Killax]

12 hours ago, Lardidar said:

@Killax That is tempting but I'm not sure about locking up 120pts in battalion costs and the rejig needed for the extra warrior unit and two skullreapers and the exalted hero...although the hero looks good should I think to replace the second secrator.

Well The Goretide is only 40 points but yeah you'd have to find 40 points for it. Currently the configuration is almost available. You'd only have to switch out a Khorgorath for a single unit of (5) Blood Warriors. One easy way to find points for the possible Battalion is to drop the Bloodstoker. I do like the Bloodstoker but speeding up your:

- Mighty Lord of Khorne
- Valkia the Bloody (a simple Bloodbound unit to add for the Battalion)
- 2 Bloodsecrators
- 40 Bloodreavers
- (15) Blood Warriors
- (2) Khorgoraths
- 5 Wrathmongers
Seems very worth it for a competative game.

Basically the only units that do not profit from The Goretide would be the Daemon Prince and Bloodletters, who cannot become part of The Goretide Battalion.

12 hours ago, thejughead said:

Rage of Khorne doesn't stack and the banners are very short range so getting them to overlap might be situational.

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There is nothing that stops Rage of Khorne from stacking. Without going deep into the matter (again) it's obviously fine if you House-rule it differently or use a Competative local Rules Set that states that same name abilities do not stack. Again in the current wording however it is not stated that you can only be under the effect of Rage of Khorne once. This is very important to keep in mind because there are competative tournaments out there who do allow for same name abilities to stack if there is nothing prefenting it and the wording allows it to accumulate. 

Cheers,

[thejughead]

They changed the wording from the original text. It says you only benefit a +1 attack if under its range. The previous text said add 1. Major differences.


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[Killax]

39 minutes ago, thejughead said:

They changed the wording from the original text. It says you only benefit a +1 attack if under its range. The previous text said add 1. Major differences.


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I don't blame you for misreading it or thaking this heresay from others but this is not true. 

 

Step 1: Open Portal of Skulls
Step 2: This ability affects all Khorne units in your army within 18" of this model at the start of the combat phase.
Step 3: When the effected models attack add 1 to the Attack characteristics of all melee weapons used.
Step 4: In addition players do not thake battlehsock tests for any Khorne units within 18" of this model. 

Fact:
- Both text still say you add 1 to your Attack Characteristic. 
- Both text still do not state you can be under the effect of Rage of Khorne only once. Nor do most abilities, however there are many abilities who do not state add 1 despite some misreading it or remembering it as such. 

3x Rage of Khorne still adds adds 1 to the Attack characteristics 3 times.
- This is not the same with the way Bloodreavers interact with Totems or how Wrathmongers affect models. Why? Because Bloodreaver attacks arn't added, they go from 1 to 2, Wrathmongers say 1 more not add 1.



 

[thejughead]

Sorry you are misreading the text. It clearly states if you are under the effect add 1. This does not mean you can stack it. The first affect satisfies the rule. This has also been confirmed by the SCGT. Sorry I love to play Khorne but this silliness will hopefully end with GHB2. You've never had the pleasure of having a bloodthirster one shotted by -4 rend dwarve pistoleers, because of stacking nonsense (while priest abilities have yet to be actually reigned in)


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[Killax]

5 minutes ago, thejughead said:

Sorry you are misreading the text. It clearly states if you are under the effect add 1. This does not mean you can stack it. The first affect satisfies the rule. This has also been confirmed by the SCGT. Sorry I love to play Khorne but this silliness will hopefully end with GHB2. You've never had the pleasure of having a bloodthirster one shotted by -4 rend dwarve pistoleers, because of stacking nonsense (while priest abilities have yet to be actually reigned in)


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The SCGT specifically rules that same name abilities do not stack. This is a House-rule and you can use that locally if you want to.

It is not a confirmed rule at this point by GW. RoK stacks because there is nothing within the written ability that does not specifically state it wouldn't be able to do that. 

[Killax]

8 minutes ago, thejughead said:

Sorry you are misreading the text. It clearly states if you are under the effect add 1. This does not mean you can stack it. The first affect satisfies the rule. This has also been confirmed by the SCGT. Sorry I love to play Khorne but this silliness will hopefully end with GHB2. You've never had the pleasure of having a bloodthirster one shotted by -4 rend dwarve pistoleers, because of stacking nonsense (while priest abilities have yet to be actually reigned in)


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Here you can find a copy of said House-rules: http://www.heelanhammer.com/SCGTdownloads/SCGT16RulesFAQV2.0.pdf

 

If you want to locally use said House-rules, that's totally up to you. 

If you want to use GW's FAQ as reference and rules as written, you can stack Rage of Khorne's effects because they add. They do not change or say X more.

[Zhorphorus]

@Killax I agree with @thejughead here. The ability affects the units, i think we can all agree on that. The activation is then if the model is under the effect of RoK then add 1 attack. The model would be under the effect whether there were one banner or 100.

Just because it doesn't exclude stacking doesn't mean it allows it

Hope this helps

[Killax]

3 minutes ago, Zhorphorus said:

 

Just because it doesn't exclude stacking doesn't mean it allows it

Hope this helps

It does exactly mean that it is allowed, unless otherwise stated  as per GW. As before, there is nothing that states you cannot be under the effect of Rage of Khorne multiple times.

As before, House-rules can be used to alter this. The rules as written do not stop you from adding any effects. In fact, almost no effects state that they cannot be added but the effect isn't always leading to something more.

Adding 1 is what Rage of Khorne does, this can be done 3+ times.
Changing 1 to 2 is what Totems do for Bloodreavers, this can be done 1 time. Despite the Bloodreavers having 3 Totems near them.

[Zhorphorus]

@Killax So because nowhere in the rules it states not to destroy your opponent's models when you lose, it means that's ok?

[Killax]

2 minutes ago, Zhorphorus said:

@Killax So because nowhere in the rules it states not to destroy your opponent's models when you lose, it means that's ok?

Irrelevant to Rage of Khorne ruling.

In regards to your new question:
If you mean game-wise destroy opponents models, you need to do this in order to win.
If you mean physically destroy opponents models, you will be removed from the Tournament.

 

[Zhorphorus]

@Killax so why would gw waste their time changing the wording if it was meant to stay the same?

"when they attack, add 1 to the attacks characteristic of all melee weapons used by units affected by Rage of Khorne"

the bit in italics is the important part, if there was one or two banners it wouldn't matter, the wording is either a yes or no, not a stacking number

Unit attacks>affected by rok?>if yes add 1 to attacks

either way play it how you like but they changed the wording for a reason, i.e. To stop it stacking

[thejughead]

The area of effect only triggers once. Not sure how else to explain it. The SCGT explicitly said the portal does not stack in their review of the book on their podcast.


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[Killax]

10 minutes ago, Zhorphorus said:

@Killax so why would gw waste their time changing the wording if it was meant to stay the same?

"when they attack, add 1 to the attacks characteristic of all melee weapons used by units affected by Rage of Khorne"

the bit in italics is the important part, if there was one or two banners it wouldn't matter, the wording is either a yes or no, not a stacking number

Unit attacks>affected by rok?>if yes add 1 to attacks

either way play it how you like but they changed the wording for a reason, i.e. To stop it stacking

It's not wasting time. GW has altered a ton in the Blades of Khorne book. As before, heresay is what causes confusion. For example the mayority of Khorne Bloodbound Battalions changed to being Khorne Battalions. This difference is quite big. In addition the wording of several abilities changed, most of which are Command Abilities. Scyla lost the Monster Keyword, others gained Bloodbound Keywords. Again all massive changes.

There is nothing that states you cannot be under the effect of multiple Rage of Khorne effects.

This is the case because the effect simply adds, no change, no X more. Add.

10 minutes ago, thejughead said:

The area of effect only triggers once. Not sure how else to explain it. The SCGT explicitly said the portal does not stack in their review of the book on their podcast.


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As above the SCGT has it's own House-rules. You can find the link above.

The SCGT House-rules specificially state 'same name effects and spells do not stack'.
Print screen is also posted above. SCGT House-rules can be adopted locally. 

[thejughead]

As above the SCGT has it's own House-rules. You can find the link above.

The SCGT House-rules specificially state 'same name effects and spells do not stack'.
Print screen is also posted above. SCGT House-rules can be adopted locally. 

Killax, you are welcome to house rule the stacking, but GW has already answered this and many other "cheese" loopholes. If you can't cite where you are given permission to stack then you really can't do it. The wording changed for a purpose. I referenced the SCGT guys because they work extremely close with the GW rules team. It has nothing to do with the actual tournament.


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[Killax]

45 minutes ago, thejughead said:

 

Killax, you are welcome to house rule the stacking, but GW has already answered this and many other "cheese" loopholes. If you can't cite where you are given permission to stack then you really can't do it. The wording changed for a purpose. I referenced the SCGT guys because they work extremely close with the GW rules team. It has nothing to do with the actual tournament.


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Now you are mixing up things my friend! The SCGT House-rules are applied for the SCGT, you can apply them at home, local store or anywhere. The SCGT House-rules have everything to do with the actual SCGT tournament, they where made up for that tournament. 

GW's FAQ is very clear on this matter if you do not use those House-rules, Rage of Khorne is very clear in it's wording and there is nothing stopping you from stacking it, same as before.

Games Workshop FAQ
 
There is nothing that states Rage of Khorne's effects cannot stack.  

SCGT House-rules
 

Feel free to use House-rules locally. Do not claim SCGT is GW rules as written. 

 

[thejughead]

Killax, the rule "Rage of Khorne" states otherwise.


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