Command Abilities, bubbles or buffs?

[Dawnstar]

Hi all, I have a question about the effects of some command abilities.

The rules for Furious Retribution are as follows (apologies if there are rules about rules quoting)

Quote

Furious Retribution: If this model is your general
and uses this ability, then until your next hero
phase you can add 1 to the result of any hit rolls
in the combat phase for this model and friendly
STORMCAST ETERNAL units within 9" of
this model.

Does this buff the units in range on use, or is it a bubble around the model?

Would the buff be conferred to units entering it's area of effect after the hero phase? Would it be lost by units moving out?

To me this sounds like a persistent AoE bubble around the "caster", and only models within 9" during the combat phase would benefit.

 

To look at a similar ability, the rules for Speak With Your Swords read:

Quote

Speak With Your Swords: The Celestial Vindicators have
no need of threats – their weapons do the talking. A Celestial
Vindicators general has this command ability in addition
to any others they have. When the general uses this ability,
friendly Celestial Vindicators units within 6" add 1 to the
Attacks characteristic of their Warblades, Grandblades, Storm
Gladii, Stormstrike Glaives and Storm Sabres until your next
hero phase.
 

To me, the wording on this sound slightly different.

It seems to imply more of a buff on surrounding units vs the previous bubble effect. ("In the combat phase for this model and friendly STORMCAST ETERNAL units within 9" of this model." vs "units within 6" add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of their Warblades etc. until the end of the turn")

Should these be treated the same way?

Is there an FAQ ruling somewhere on the matter?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Turragor]

Your interpretation of each is, in my view, correct.

[RuneBrush]

Bubble for the first as it says "within X of (this unit)" and doesn't define when you measure (so you measure on the fly).

The second is a buff as it states a fixed point in time to measure  

[Dawnstar]

2 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

Bubble for both as they simply state "within X of (this unit)" and don't define when you measure (so you measure on the fly).

If it were a buff then I'd expect it to be worded "units that are within X of this unit at the start of (some) phase".

I considered that at first, but the way that the second ability is worded gives me pause

Quote

"When the general uses this ability, friendly Celestial Vindicators units within 6" (etc.)"

This, at least to me, seems to imply that the effect is measured and applied immediately 

[HeadHunter]

Per the FAQ, all models of a unit don't need to be within a given range for the unit to be "within" a certain distance.  So as long as at least one model of a unit was within that 9", the entire unit gets the buff.

If it only applied to individual models in that distance, it would say "models" and not "units".

[RuneBrush]

14 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

I considered that at first, but the way that the second ability is worded gives me pause

Yeah, I re-read the question and realised I was wrong   Must have edited it as you posted!

[Nico]

The Lord Celestant one is 99% an aura buff (needs to be there in the Combat Phase to measure the distance).

The second one (Speak With Your Swords) looks like what I call "a fire and forget" buff - partly as it's not limited by phase. Normally these are targeted at a single unit, but this one could well be an aoe/multiple unit equivalent. This persists until the timer runs out even if the hero giving the buff dies (which is a key difference). Spells are the classic example of these, e.g. Daemonic Power, Mystic Shield and Hand of Glory, which persist until your next hero phase.

The wording on Speak With Your Swords could be clearer.