Starting with Ironjawz

[Turt99]

Hey All, 

I am just getting into Age of Sigmar, well actually Warhammer in general, and I am looking for some advice. I am looking to run Ironjawz, and I am curious about what to build. At this point I have a Megaboss on foot, and a Start Collecting box. I am getting close to having this all painted (see images below), so I am thinking about where to expand. 

It seems that locally a 1000 point list would be a great starting point. One option I see is a second Start Collecting box, for the extra Ardboyz and Gruntas, but I also see a big call for the Brutes. 

1) The option of a second Start Collecting box is cheaper, but am I going to find that my list is extremely weak without Brutes at all? 

2) For an average player that is likely to run 1000 point games, would you guys always have a "sideboard" of sorts for your Army? Is the real answer get both so that I have options? or will there really be a big difference as a casual player?

3) I see a lot of talk about the GHB 2 changing the points around, how concerned are you guys about having to rework your lists? I know the Ironjawz are great in that most units are 180, so you can swap units around but I'm guessing this could change. Is anyone holding off on finishing a list until after the GHB 2 points are revealed?

 

 

[Solaris]

Lists will always go in and out of flavor. This happens continuously with shifts in meta, as players keep figuring out new strong ways to play, and ways to counter that. Changes in how things are pointed also cause fast shifts basically overnight, restarting the whole process of figuring out what is the strongest way to play. I wouldn't worry too much about these things - build the 1000 point list that you like, and gradually add on to it and make changes as you see fit. There is no need to play with a side board initially, the most important thing is learning and figuring out how your army plays and how you can make best use of your units.

As far as purchases go, the Start Collecting box, a Megaboss and two boxes of Brutes is probably the most solid way to build a 1000 point list. You then run a Megaboss, Warchanter, 3 Gruntas, 10 Ardboys and 2x5 or 1x10 Brutes in the Ironfist formation. If you also get a Weirdnob Shaman, you can drop one unit and the Ironfist, and replace them with the Shaman and the Weirdfist formation. This is a less competitive option, but I've found it a lot of fun to play with.

As far as expansions go, the Thunderfist is a good box if you can get ahold of it. If not, a second Start Collecting box, a third box of Brutes and a Weirdnob Shaman are good additions for going into 1500 point lists, or for trying our variations to your 1000 point list. I would definitely start out with two boxes of Brutes before buying anything else though.

Also, nice figs! I love the details you have added to your bases, they look great!

[Gaz Taylor]

I'm no expert on Ironjaws but they are a army I keep on coming back to be tempted to do. If it was me and I was looking at a 1000 point list, I would probably look at the following....

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Battalions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 820/1000

This leaves you with 180 points which you can spend on either another unit or I personally would bolster one of the ones you have already (probably Brutes). This gives you a nice hard hitting force which is very very fast due to being able to move 2D6" in the Hero phase (Ironfist Battlion special rule with Destruction Hero buff of units moving D6" when near a hero). The Warchanter buffs up which ever unit you want and you go off and smash stuff.

As for the generals handbook version 2, I wouldn't worry too much about it. We will most likely see cheaper units for the Ironjaws or best case scenario a new Ironjaw book comes out with new units! But you shouldn't let that stop you as worst case scenario is that you will be painting more units.

Also your models look very nice  

[Chris Tomlin]

Hi there @Turt99,

Welcome to Warhammer, TGA and mostly importantly; IRONJAWZ! Great choice for your first army, though I may slightly biased  

You'll find this area of the forums to be very useful and there is a whole host of information to be gleaned should want it. If podcasts are something you are interested in I can point you to a couple of specific episodes you may find useful/interesting.

First thing I gotta ask is, you're new to Warhammer, but surely not miniature wargaming/painting in general? I ask as your models look great, awesome work. Big fan of the colour scheme and as noted by others, the basing. Your army is gonna be quality when complete.

As others have said above, you've pretty much nailed the Ironjawz 1k list. It writes itself and is nice due to the flexibility of the units all costing the same. A Megaboss, Warchanter then 4 units in the Ironfist is definitely the way to go and you have most of this already, just need to decide on your final two units. Personally, I'd pick up 2 boxes of Brutes, if nothing else they'll give you some more diversity when painting (and are outstandingly good models). Of course, they are really useful in the game as well and you have the option to run 2 units of 5, or 1 of 10 as suggested above. That said, for the money another Start Collecting box isn't a bad idea, I just feel you'll miss the punch of the Brutes.

Oh, sideboards aren't really a thing in the UK anymore, I guess the answer to this one will depend on where you play and what your group wants to do.

Don't worry about the GH2 for now, just crack on and adapt when it does come out  

Hope that helps (although I think I've just repeated what others have said!)
Chris

[Turt99]

Thanks guys, Its good to know that I am on the right track, and it definitely sounds like the Brutes are the way to go. I do like the fact that they are a little different and then I would have a taste of all the basic units. 

Thanks for the complements on the models. They are my first Warhammer models, I have always been good with artistic hobbies, and in the past I have don't some car models, but I have never done miniatures before. I have used dry brushing in the past, so I have used some of the skills before, but never really at this scale. I watched a lot of different painting videos on YouTube before starting to get ready as well. Its good to hear that the models look good to others, I still feel like I can improve, but I am very happy with my progress.

I live in Canada, and recently moved to a new city. I now have a LGS right around the corner from me with what seems like a healthy Warhammer community so I decided to take the plunge. I used to always look at the models as possible art projects, but found them too expensive when I was younger.   

[Turt99]

I forgot a question that I had about my Ardboyz. I built them out with what I felt looked best, no way is it the best load out but I am wondering if I am rolling the right dice. 

In my build I have:

Boss - Dual Wield - 3 Attacks (No Rend)

2 Big Choppa/Smasha - 2 Attacks Each (-1 Rend)

1 Drummer - 2 Attacks (No Rend)

1 Standard - 2 Attacks (No Rend)

1 Shield (So One Weapon) - 2 Attacks (No Rend)

4 Dual Weapon - 3 Attacks Each (No Rend)

[Solaris]

No, the drummer and standard get their equipment as extras, on top of what you arm them with. So, depending on how you built them, you can either run them with dual choppas, big choppas or with choppa and shield. I'd recommend the first option.

[Turt99]

48 minutes ago, Solaris said:

No, the drummer and standard get their equipment as extras, on top of what you arm them with. So, depending on how you built them, you can either run them with dual choppas, big choppas or with choppa and shield. I'd recommend the first option.

So really I should treat those like the Dual Weapons?  

What about the boss? If I have him with the big choppa in one hand and a smasha in the other does that mean the one weapon should have a -1 Rend?

[Solaris]

1 hour ago, Turt99 said:

So really I should treat those like the Dual Weapons?  

What about the boss? If I have him with the big choppa in one hand and a smasha in the other does that mean the one weapon should have a -1 Rend?

The boss is either armed with two one-handed weapon, or with one two-handed weapon. If he holds the weapon in one hand it's by definition one-handed Even if it looks big.

[Chris Tomlin]

@Turt99 - Regarding Ardboys, it's a fairly old debate that has gone round in circles. The mathematicians will advise that dual choppas are the best option unless facing units with a good save (which is meta dependant), however I think you are alright to pretty much equip how you like. There's a lengthy topic on it here;

For quite some time I considered full shield units as pure objective grabbers/holders, but I dunno!

My first unit has 'uge choppas (and one shield, don't ask why?!) as aesthetically I preferred them. My second unit (ready for paint now) is converted out of the Blood Bowl Orcs and has dual choppas. My third unit will probably be 9 shields and 1 'uge choppa, just so I have 10 of each.

I own parts to make a further 20, so perhaps by the time I finally get around to those I'll maybe have come down on one side of the fence!

[Turt99]

As an update on my Ironjawz, I have completed painting everyone in my small 580 point army (except the ardboy boss). I now have 10 Brutes on order, to move my list up to 1000 points. After the brutes I will probably move to some more hobby related stuff, the group in my area have a 1k ladder so I will have enough to join that, and I am interested in making myself a gaming table. 

I played a game with my 580 points against a 580 point Nurgle army, and got crushed. I deployed completely wrong and ended up trying to use my Gore Gruntas as a tar pit rather then the Ardboyz. Plus my opponent seem to be able to roll only 6's the whole game. 

Is there any discussion on outfitting the Brutes? I see the Klaw option and on paper it sounds great, but I think it looks weird. So Just going by looks I would probably decide not to build it, but is it a lot better? 

 

[Tuluth]

The units are looking pretty great so far. I'm loving the basing detail. Is your Megaboss on permanently, or did you attach him with pins or magnets? 

Most of the Brute outfitting discussion can be found in the 'Competitive' Ironjawz thread. The summary on that, is the Jagged Gore-hacka is better if you're running a large unit (10 or more) of Brutes, so they can attack over each other (or 'Ardboys). In units of 5, the Two Brute Choppas option is better. And ALWAYS take the Gore-choppa.

With the boss weapons, the Klaw option is better due to both the superior rend on the Smasha (-2 vs -1), and the auto-hit mechanic the Smasha gains from the Klaw 'hitting' (it doesn't need to wound or deal damage, just hit). It gets ahead with any to-hit buff (Warchanter, Bellowing Tyrant), and surges ahead with any additional attacks (Waaagh!).  Math and further detail is in the same 'Competitive' Ironjawz thread.

[Turt99]

The units are looking pretty great so far. I'm loving the basing detail. Is your Megaboss on permanently, or did you attach him with pins or magnets? 
Most of the Brute outfitting discussion can be found in the 'Competitive' Ironjawz thread. The summary on that, is the Jagged Gore-hacka is better if you're running a large unit (10 or more) of Brutes, so they can attack over each other (or 'Ardboys). In units of 5, the Two Brute Choppas option is better. And ALWAYS take the Gore-choppa.
With the boss weapons, the Klaw option is better due to both the superior rend on the Smasha (-2 vs -1), and the auto-hit mechanic the Smasha gains from the Klaw 'hitting' (it doesn't need to wound or deal damage, just hit). It gets ahead with any to-hit buff (Warchanter, Bellowing Tyrant), and surges ahead with any additional attacks (Waaagh!).  Math and further detail is in the same 'Competitive' Ironjawz thread.

He is stuck on the base, I guess I could have done pins but this is all new to me. So I just stuck him on. Thanks for the brute info, I will definitely put a Klaw in one unit, I may skip on the other as I'm fairly casual and I like the look of the boss Choppa better.

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[Chris Tomlin]

@Turt99 - Your models continue to look great. This is gonna be (another) awesome looking Ironjawz army! @Tuluth pretty much has your answers covered tbh. Just note that you can (and should) take 1 Gore-choppa per 5 brutes, so 2 in a unit of 10 etc. Looks great and pumps out some nice damage.

Don't worry about your loss, sounds like you took away some learning from your mistakes which is great early doors. Dust your boyz off and get ready to fight again!

[Turt99]

So as an update to my army, I have added a couple 5 man squads of Brutes. I'm still working on painting these guys up. I had a game with the Brutes and they were definitely a good addition to the team. 

So now that I have 1000 points I'm curious what the next steps might be. I really think the MawCrusha is going to be in the list no matter what. The idea of doing a show piece and having that in my army sounds great. I am tempted to say a MawCrusha and another Start Collecting might be my target. This would give me an extra Warchanter, and additional set of Ardboy. The Gore Gruntas are not my favorite, but as a cost effective way to get from 1k to 2k it seems like a decent option. 

It seems from the lists that I can see though that most people are just going with more and more brutes, is that generally the competitive list?

 

 

 

 

[Solaris]

In my experience, the Brutes are the real work-horse units and the main damage threat. However, they are frail, and therefore need some support. Ardboys and Gore-gruntas are good defensive support units, where Ardboys absorb charges and the piggies divert enemy heavy hitters. Megabosses and Warchanters are good offensive support units, and ramp up the damage of the Brutes even further. In a generic Ironfist list, you want to find the balance between the damage dealers and support units. Other people may have different thoughts on this though.

Then there are other wildcards that you can add to your list, that change the dynamic of the whole army. These include the Maw-krusha, the Weirdfist, and probably also other things like the Gorefist. Out of these, I only have experience with the Weirdfist. It plays somewhat similar to the Ironfist, but is less in your face aggressive and more about castling up to support the damage output of the Weirdnob while punishing enemy charges. The main issue with the Weirdfist is that the Weirdnob can be sniped. You can play around that in some cases, while in other cases you are fucked from the get go (Hunter spam, etc...).

Maybe @Chris Tomlin can chime in on how the army plays when you have a Maw-krusha?

[Thain]

I feel that two ten-man (ten-orc) units of Ardboyz are very useful for scenarios where you need to camp and objective... Or against opponents that want to drown your Brutes in a horde of chaff (Skaven Slaves, Zombies, and such.)

I'm also just starting out, in the middle of painting up my first SC Box (Portland weather in springtime doesn't offer many days for spraying on the primer). My plan is to build towards something like this:

Megaboss on Mawkrusha 520
Megaboss                            140
Shaman                                120
Warchanter                            80
Ardboyz (x20) [2 Units]      360
Brutes (x20) [2 Units of 5; 1 Unit of Ten]         720
Ironfist Battalion                    60

Probably not the most ruthlessly competitive tourney list... But I think I'll have fun with it, win or lose. Plus, with the two SC boxes I plan to buy, I'll have six Gore-Gruntas and a spare Warchanter. I've also been lucky enough to find a raft of old Orc Arrer Boyz and Sword-n-Board Boyz in my FLGS's bargain bin. So I'll have options.