Vanguard Wing teleporting

[Jontypython]

Hi all,

 

Quick question regarding teleporting Liberators around the board using the Vanguard Wing formation...

Does it count as retreating if you teleport them out of combat?

 

The reason I ask is as I understand it the destruction special move was FAQ'd to essentially say that any movement to leave combat counts as a retreat, however the Liberators don't move per se. They are re-deployed, as in removed from the tabletop and set-up within 5" of the prosecutors.

 

Thanks in advance.

Jon

[chord]

I disagree. Instead of moving means you are not retreating since a retreat is a move

[Bimli]

ya lets hope so. Maybe they can do an updated FAQ there always hope

[chord]

It will most likely be resolved when the new SE battletome comes out in a few weeks.

[Bimli]

4 minutes ago, chord said:

The rules for being with 3" of an enemy is "units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or retreat" T

That is correct. But for this ability it says instead of moving, which means you are not getting a movement phase. So it is not a retreat since that occurs when you have a movement phase.  Retreat is a movement.  This teleport is not a movement as per it's wording.

 

the rule is "Instead of moving in their movement phase" so they don't move in the same sense as their movement amount but this teleport works in the movement phase.

That being said the retreat rule are clear with what you can do I'll quote again.

"The rules for being with 3" of an enemy is "units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or retreat "

So that part of the rule means these are your choices if your within 3" of an enemy.

It will be up to the players ultimately but this is how i'd play just based off RAW. 

[chord]

The rules for being with 3" of an enemy is "units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or retreat" T

That is correct. But for this ability it says instead of moving, which means you are not getting a movement phase. So it is not a retreat since that occurs when you have a movement phase.  Retreat is a movement.  This teleport is not a movement as per it's wording.

 

[Bimli]

On 2/1/2017 at 9:23 AM, chord said:

RAW?

The rule is only clear when you are moving. Which this ability says instead of moving, thus it's not a move.

Yes RAW, at least that's how I interpret it I could be mistaken. So the ability says "instead of moving in their movement phase...." So this ability happens in the movement phase.

The rules for being with 3" of an enemy is "units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or retreat"

hmmm makes me wonder if they can even use the ability as the rules don't say they can remain stationary, retreat or use an ability.... so RAW they can stay put and fight or run away

Also as per RAW if they retreat (dosent specify how they can retreat so teleporting should be ok) it does indicate they cannot be within 3" of an enemy or charge. So I would say yes the can teleport out but can not be in close combat due to the "cannot be within 3" of an enemy" and cannot charge. So effectively will not be able to attack in that phase as this ability take place in the movement phase.

So to me its seems pretty clear based off RAW you can do the ability but counts as retreat so you can't be within 3" of an enemy when you pop up and you can't charge. Mind you I could be interpreting it wrong but I don't think so

[hellalugosi]

Yeah if it says remove and set up instead of movement, makes sense that it wouldnt be a retreat, because it isnt a movement in the first place. 

[chord]

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 9:36 PM, Bimli said:

Well the rule is pretty clear for what a unit can do if it is within 3" of an enemy units. Either stay stationary or retreat so if you move away for any reason it would be considered a retreat as per raw 

RAW?

The rule is only clear when you are moving. Which this ability says instead of moving, thus it's not a move.

[Knight-Errant]

So lets say that it is a retreat.

So they cant shoot (which is not the case) and they cant charge, which is not the case again cause they are supposed to be placed within 5'' of the prosecutors, so, even within 3'' of the enemy , which means that you can still pile in and attack.No charge needed. 

You want to call it a retreat, disengagement or whatever, its the same outcome. 

[Bimli]

Well the rule is pretty clear for what a unit can do if it is within 3" of an enemy units. Either stay stationary or retreat so if you move away for any reason it would be considered a retreat as per raw 

[Bimli]

I would say it works but the units has to abide by the retreat rule aka cant shoot or charge ect ect due to the rules wording. So they count as retreating and have to deal with all the restrictions 

Units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy can either retreat or remain stationary.

 

[chord]

Since it is instead of moving.  A retreat is a Movement.  So by the nature of a retreat (which is a move) then this can not count as a movement. 

[rokapoke]

I would say that if they started the movement phase in combat but you teleport them out they count as retreating -- they can't shoot (irrelevant for Liberators) or charge that turn.

That said, the "anywhere within 5" of the Prosecutors" part seems like you can transport them into combat. So they would be able to pile in (if desired) and attack, since that doesn't involve charging.

Of course, I could be 100% wrong about all of this...

[redbeardboss]

but youre not setting up a new unit so id go off the rule that if they started the movement phase within 3 they are retreating. But age of sigmar is crazy so who knows lol

[Jontypython]

2 hours ago, Bimli said:

it depends on the wording of the rule can you please quote it

The exact wording is as follows:

Stormstreak: Instead of moving in their movement phase, a Vangurd Wing's Liberators can vanish with a crash of thunder, travelling at the speed of a thunderbolt to aid their Prosecutor brethren. Remove the unit from the battlefield, then set it up anywhere within 5" of a unit of Prosecutors from the Vanguard Wing

12 minutes ago, redbeardboss said:

im pretty sure the new faq says if your ability "counts as the movement phase" or if the ability takes place in the movement phase it is a retreat and they count as retreating for the rest of the turn. Something like the Tzeentch Changhost isn't a retreat because it doesn't "count as the movement phase".

 

Just read the rules again and id say im 99% sure im right. "Units that start the movement phase within 3 inches can stand still or retreat." New FAQ is talking about abilities that "count as the movement phase"

This is the problem, I have seen the FAQ and understand that but as that phrasing isn't used and in fact you are replacing moving with setting up I am not sure if it meets the criteria and thus counts as a retreat.

[redbeardboss]

im pretty sure the new faq says if your ability "counts as the movement phase" or if the ability takes place in the movement phase it is a retreat and they count as retreating for the rest of the turn. Something like the Tzeentch Changhost isn't a retreat because it doesn't "count as the movement phase".

 

Just read the rules again and id say im 99% sure im right. "Units that start the movement phase within 3 inches can stand still or retreat." New FAQ is talking about abilities that "count as the movement phase"

[Bimli]

3 hours ago, Jontypython said:

Hi all,

 

Quick question regarding teleporting Liberators around the board using the Vanguard Wing formation...

Does it count as retreating if you teleport them out of combat?

 

The reason I ask is as I understand it the destruction special move was FAQ'd to essentially say that any movement to leave combat counts as a retreat, however the Liberators don't move per se. They are re-deployed, as in removed from the tabletop and set-up within 5" of the prosecutors.

 

Thanks in advance.

Jon

it depends on the wording of the rule can you please quote it

[chord]

No I don't think it would count as a retreat.