Struggling against fyreslayers

[Strigoi]

Hello All,

 

I have been playing Destruction for a couple of months and really need some help. I am wanting to be playing competitive soon and been struggling with fyreslayers.

 

The issue is my opponent has bulkier berserkers and takes a formation which gives them a 2+ re-rollable save with a 4+ feel no pain re-rollable save.

 

I have no clue on how to deal with this, and desparetly need your help.

 

What i normally take is:

 

1 Mega boss

1 weirdboy shamen

5 Brutes

5 Brutes

20 Ardboyz

1 Rogue idol

 

Roughly 1500 points.

The issue is i get bogged down and cant move him at all, and took a pasting. He is so resilient and no matter how many attacks i dish out, i just cant kill any. If im lucky ill kill one guy.

also do mortal wounds ignore all types of saves, and can you shoot through your own men?

 

Any help would be great, i have access to all of destruction all green skins and ogres, but really am struggling to think how to tackle this.

Thanks

[MightyQwan]

I would go with mortal wounds spam because no saves can be taken against them unless specidfically written. His rerollable save is useless again them. And for mortal.wpund spam I don't think there is anything better than a couple Thundertusk and some stonehorn. If Forgeworld models are allowed the magma dragon deals 2d6 mortal wounds against units that are 10 guys or more. Oh an beastclaw raiders are super resilient with the healing they can get so even if you get stuck in there they can last all game. Just make sure you have some grots to go capture objectives.

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[Bjarni St.]

What is this formation your opponent is using? Something from the narrative books?

Mortal Wounds ignore "Saves" (armor saves, if you will). The "Feel No Pain" roll Fyreslayer units get isn't a save in rules terms but it does let them escape Mortal Wounds. Many units have similar rules to "ignore" wounds and/or mortal wounds and it's down to the wording of each unit's rules.

You can shoot at anything you can see. If you can see through your other models you can shoot through them, whether they're engaged in combat or not.

[Nico]

I'm guessing that he is adding 3 to their saves with the Forge Brethren and then reroll saves from the Battlesmith. The answer is play a balanced list with some shooting - snipe off the Aurics (5 model units probably - 5 wound 5+ save - they melt and cost 100 points per model), then snipe off the Battlesmith.

Just retreat out of combat until those buffing units are dead.

[Andreas]

Just give up and bow for the might of the lodge. 

Playing fyreslayers, one problem we have is slow movement. Its hard to capture objectives. So play the mission. You usually dont need to kill the big unkillable unit of vulkites. Retreat if you get stuck.

Other than that, kill the battlesmith, kill the runesmiter and kill the auric hearthguards if you get the opportunity. Units with high rend (or mortal wounds) are good. For example Ironguts.

[bottle]

With the Vulkite Berzerkers, the ward save is a 6, improving to a 5+ if there are 10 or more models or a 4+ if there are 20 or more models at the start of the phase.

That means if any units are running in 20s you need only kill one before its ward save gets nerfed in the following phase. Even if the unit is 30 strong, once you drop them to 19 you would be best off targeting another unit for the remainder of the phase and then refocusing your attention back in the following phase as it's ward save will be weakened. That should help you maximise the wounds that are getting through.

[Strigoi]

Hello all, 

Thank you for all the replies guys! The formation he takes is Forge brethren. 

The issue is whats the best way to snipe the heros as they are always wedged behind units. He has 2 - 3 heroes at most. 

 

Thanks

[Andreas]

49 minutes ago, bottle said:

With the Vulkite Berzerkers, the ward save is a 6, improving to a 5+ if there are 10 or more models or a 4+ if there are 20 or more models at the start of the phase.

That means if any units are running in 20s you need only kill one before its ward save gets nerfed in the following phase. Even if the unit is 30 strong, once you drop them to 19 you would be best off targeting another unit for the remainder of the phase and then refocusing your attention back in the following phase as it's ward save will be weakened. That should help you maximise the wounds that are getting through.

This is true but from my experience that ward save is not the biggest problem/strengh it's the rerolling normal save that breaks the opponents attacks. Going from 4++ to 5++ ward on the attacks that have gone through sure helps but I am not sure it would swing the fight as much as you would think.

Priority one for me would be to take out supporting heroes, the battlesmith must die, same with the runesmiters. The exeption would be if you can reach a large unit of auric hearthguards, then you target it with all you got otherwise you might not have anything left in that table quarter if things goes bad, like losing the priority roll.

Trying to get every vulkite unit below 20 wouldnt be a priority for me if I played against fyreslayers.

[bottle]

@Andreas I am sure you know best, being a resident player after all! I would like your comment but I have run out for today.  

[Andreas]

28 minutes ago, bottle said:

@Andreas I am sure you know best, being a resident player after all! I would like your comment but I have run out for today.  

Well I am more of a hobbyist and a forum troll than a player (due to familly commitments, stuff I can spend time on while the kids are sleeping), so a lot of my thought are theoryhammer or my limited experience. But I have played tournaments with them and won some games so I pretend that I am a expert. Who will know. ?

[Strigoi]

May i ask how i achieve this though?


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[Andreas]

You run destruction and have access to most models?

A thundertusk or two I would not like to face with my <=6 wound heroes that need to be alive I can tell you that. 

But in general what mission do you play. I would say that he can be put in very difficult spot just by using your speed and just place units on as many objectives as you can turn one. It sound like he is running a slow list with a few huge units and no tunneling? Could be hard for him to get the objectives, you dont need to kill him.

[Strigoi]

You run destruction and have access to most models?
A thundertusk or two I would not like to face with my But in general what mission do you play. I would say that he can be put in very difficult spot just by using your speed and just place units on as many objectives as you can turn one. It sound like he is running a slow list with a few huge units and no tunneling? Could be hard for him to get the objectives, you dont need to kill him.

Hi

Atm we aint doing any missions but straight out battle matey


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[Andreas]

37 minutes ago, Strigoi said:

 

Hi

Atm we aint doing any missions but straight out battle matey


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Then try missions, for example the general handbook ones or any other you can get your hands on. It's so much more fun IMO.

Just to give you something easy to play. Place three objectives spread out on the middle line. On turn three one random objective disappears. The player who holds most objectives (most models within 6") at the end of turn five wins. This will force some movement and some tactical play to win other than a big mashup in the middle.

[Nico]

It's a really bad match up for pure Ironjawz as they don't have any shooting. However, the same is true against Dryads plus Shield of Thorns or Kroak plus Balewind Vortex - a pure melee army is always going to have hard counters.

[Arael]

5 hours ago, Nico said:

I'm guessing that he is adding 3 to their saves with the Forge Brethren and then reroll saves from the Battlesmith. The answer is play a balanced list with some shooting - snipe off the Aurics (5 model units probably - 5 wound 5+ save - they melt and cost 100 points per model), then snipe off the Battlesmith.

Just retreat out of combat until those buffing units are dead.

As far as I know in matched play u cannot add a bonus of the same type more then once , u can add +1 save from forge brethern and +1 from mystic shield but not +2 from forge brethern.

so probably that unit cannot have a 2 rerollable save.

[Nico]

Quote

As far as I know in matched play u cannot add a bonus of the same type more then once , u can add +1 save from forge brethern and +1 from mystic shield but not +2 from forge brethern.

This is a rule in the pre-GH SCGT pack and Clash Comp, it is not part of the GH. The FAQ say the exact opposite (you could even stack Righteous Smiting were it not for the separate restraint of the rule of one).

Bloodsecrator stacking is routine under the GH (and indeed necessary for Khorne Bloodbound to be competitive).

[SpleenThief]

Big stabbas might help, -2 rend 3 damage and mortal wounds on death. if they have a magmadroth use teh battalion so you get the free pilein and attack for being within 6''. The high rend and damage mean the chance of getting through thier saves goes up and when it does big money 3 damage!

-note: Teef rukk doesn't say you have to attack chosen monster in hero phase.