2000 points Beastclaw Raiders list

[Arael]

Why not somethin like this:

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (460)
- General
- Trait: Ravager
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Frostlord on Stonehorn (460)
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Frostlord on Stonehorn (460)
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Savage Big Boss (100)

Units
Savage Orruks x 10 (100)
Savage Orruks x 10 (100)
Savage Orruks x 10 (100)
Savage Orruks x 10 (100)

Behemoths

War Machines

Batallions
Bonegrinz Warclan (40)
Kunnin' Rukk (60)

Total: 1980/2000

3 frost lord with 4+ save vs mortal ( 1 artifact base +1 kunnin ruk +1 bone grins warclan) nearly unstoppable...or if u prefer with 3 battle brew ( but I think it's overkill) and 40 savage (80 wound) to take objective or harass the enemy with double move/melee with kunnin ruk.

very few list I think have a valid response to 3 monster with 26 wound each and a save vs mortal of 4+ That will be in ur deployment in turn 1 and a meatwall of 80 wounds of orcs.
 

[gnaleinad]

9 hours ago, Nico said:

It does stand, but if you're at 18 models left, you don't outnumber a unit of 20 any more and you don't have the buff for 20 models, so you're back to hitting on 5s and wounding on 5s, i.e. unmitigated garbage that is barely even worth rolling. Against a unit of 10, you're on 4+, 5+, so still garbage.

Maybe I need to point out that Gitmob Grots are the cheapest unit for model count in AoS.
They are really there to capture objectives and block turn 1 pop up abilities. 3 out of 6 Match Play Battleplans is won on just that. 
Should people ignore them completely? They suffer.

Your theory of going first and shooting the Grot fails because very few range units can do first turn shooting, the top choices are Judicators and Kurnoth Hunters. Only Order are capable of high number of distance shooting. And they always go for the Frostlord or Huskard or Spear Chukkas.
Against Chaos the only worry is PlagueClaws and Jazzail Team.
Against Death only screaming skulls can work.
You are ignoring the fact that if the enemy waste any shots to reduce their numbers, the STONEHORN and THUNDERTUSK and Spear Chukkas will utterly destroy his army. 

I field tested this army against many armies. 90% of my opponents never touch those Grots until 2nd turn.

9 hours ago, Nico said:

I'm assuming that they don't have enough firepower to drop both Thundertusks.

 

Against Chaos? Only Skavens might have enough. Against Death? Never.
Order might be the only one. The best I encountered so far was just my Stonehorn taken down, by 5 shots from Cannons, and I had one Thundertusk wounded also.

I healed back that thundertusk. My Chukkas responded by killing 5 cannon crews, the 2 blood vultures took another 2 cannon crews out, one thundertusk sniped the Organ Gun, my wolf chariot went in to kill off the remaining 2 cannon crews(one by shooting). My untouched Great Gitmob Grots went up and destoryed everything. 

9 hours ago, Nico said:

I doubt it. Unless he has put his pew pew near the 12 inch line and it consists of single wound models, so you will probably drop 12 of them with the Thundertusks. Your Stonelord is going to be hitting chaff or at least something expendable turn one, unless your opponent has never played against it before and doesn't know it can virtually charge the back line of the table. So you will achieve little by giving him the opportunity to double turn you back. As for the Thundertusks, I believe that their (utterly broken) effective range is 18 plus 8 plus D6, so 29.5 on average, so your opponent has a jolly 6 inches off his back line to be vaguely safe in for his 5 wound heroes and the like.

You are not even considering that this is a tournament list for Match Play battleplans. My Grots are Chaff. My Stonehorn is THE red herring. My Chukkas and Thundertusks are distractions.

Going first is great, Stonehorn will just charge the nearest unit! My Grots will all run 10"~19" forward. My Thundertusks will deal 12~14 mortal wounds. JOLLY 6" of SAFETY? My Chukkas will just move 5"~10" and almost certainly kill one of those hero, if not it will hunt for crews.
 

9 hours ago, Nico said:

This is perhaps the worst balanced and most unnecessary rule in the game. Why are 9 Grots as brave as 5 Liberators and 10 Grots braver? It's utterly ridiculous. I wrongly thought it was only Moonclan who had these broken banners. 

How are they broken? And I think the game mechanic mimic simple real life rules, mob mentality is indeed braver. 

9 hours ago, Nico said:

3 attacks, so probably 4 damage to a 4+ save - a mere irritation and a waste of Battlebrew. He's not the Hooded Villain. You could put a 4+ ward save vs mortal wounds on one of the Thundertusks instead.

Like your earlier argument of going two turn in a row for initiative, I always set my Grot Warboss, which has forever been underestimated and ignored, in a position for a sneaky attack. 
Soften the target with Chukkas and blood Vultures and go in with my Warboss.
The chance in gaining immunity to Battleshock on the second turn for all the Grots is an incredible boon. 

I am sorry but all you gave are simple solutions of countering isolated units of this army. Many of my friend will tell you that it will not be easy.

The Grots are Chuffs, they cover great distance, capture objectives and can deals great amount of damage. That Stonehorn is THE red herring, but it's tanky and deal crazy amount of damage. The Chukkas and Thundertusks are distractions, yet they deal very reliable amount of damage.

Why not tell me a list that you will use against it and the tactics you will run to use in 2 pitched battleplans, namely Border War and Gifts from the Heavens..

[gnaleinad]

10 hours ago, Arael said:

3 frost lord with 4+ save vs mortal ( 1 artifact base +1 kunnin ruk +1 bone grins warclan) nearly unstoppable...or if u prefer with 3 battle brew ( but I think it's overkill) and 40 savage (80 wound) to take objective or harass the enemy with double move/melee with kunnin ruk.

very few list I think have a valid response to 3 monster with 26 wound each and a save vs mortal of 4+ That will be in ur deployment in turn 1 and a meatwall of 80 wounds of orcs.
 

I agree, your list is very hit hitting, it will be a very close match against my Sneaky Frosty Surprise!
I will be sure to dish those Blood Vultures to your Stonehorns and focus fire one Stonehorn at a time.

It will be really a close fight and your list have an advantage in 2 pitched battleplans, "Take & Hold" and "Three Places of Power".

Chances are you most likely will win those two battleplans.

"Escalation" might be my advantage.

"Border War" and "Blood & Glory" and "Gifts from the Heavens" are the free for all.

[Nico]

@gnaleinad

I'm not saying that it's not completely broken and undercosted filth. Perhaps pew pew isn't the best answer and clearly pew pew in reliance on crew isn't. You're ignoring the many artillery pieces that don't have crew and are tough against shooting such as the Warp Lightning Cannon and the Plagueclaw Catapult and all the Legion of Azgorth artillery. 

 Bloodreavers, Bloodwarriors and Wrathmongers would be a real pain for your Stonelord to deal with (backed by Bloodsecrators) and the Mighty Lord of Khorne is a one third chance of globalling the Stonelord. 

GW have really dropped the ball by designing Destruction abilities for Ironjawz, which turn Beastclaw heroes into overpowered and grossly undercosted cheese; balancing BCR internally on the basis of that faction alone; and by giving BCR no incentive to stick to their allegiance and huge advantages from taking undercosted units like Savage Orruks (I agree with Arael above) and Moonclan Grots.

You're ignoring the existence of Skyborne Slayers/Warrior Brotherhood (aka many Order armies) for one thing. I suspect that would be a partial counter, with 10 Protectors chopping down the Thundertusks (with their 3 inch melee range going over most tiny units of chaff, which they can in any event shoot through beforehand). Alternatively the 10 Judicators plus Venator etc.. can shoot off one of the Thundertusks with a little help from the Lord Celestant. The 5 Decimators would delete other chaff. They would probably need to win the double turn to win, but that's a 50% shot.

Counterpunch armies, e.g. 30 Stormvermin behind 40 Clanrats, 9 Flies behind 30 Plaguebearers could also surprise you - they will delete that Stonehorn faster than you think without mystic shield. Any Death army that has the 5+ ward save is also a huge problem, 6 mortal wounds from the Thundertusks dropping to 4 mortal wounds is devastating. 12 Spirit Hosts with a VLoZD behind them with a Ring of Immortality would beat your army. Throw in a Mourngul to make it a dead certainty.

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How are they broken? And I think the game mechanic mimic simple real life rules, mob mentality is indeed braver. 

A mob is like 40 models - it's a great mechanic that you get extra quasi-bravery for that many. However, the fact that 5 Grots are Bravery 6 is just stupid.

[N_Watson]

I hadn't even considered moonclan grots as I thought savage orrucs were better. Think moonclan with bows, a few netters and then getting a few fanatics might be the best option for battle line. Being able to block charges and having a better save against shooting is pretty good. 

[Nico]

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I hadn't even considered moonclan grots as I thought savage orrucs were better. 

I think the Moonclan are braver and you aren't having 2 wound models flee. They both do abysmal damage (in small numbers and without buffs) but are there to soak up wounds. I think the Moonclan are a little bit better due to netters. Don't take the bows as they then lose the shields which is huge. The bows do zero damage in small numbers and without the Moonclan formation.

[N_Watson]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

I think the Moonclan are braver and you aren't having 2 wound models flee. They both do abysmal damage (in small numbers and without buffs) but are there to soak up wounds. I think the Moonclan are a little bit better due to netters. Don't take the bows as they then lose the shields which is huge. The bows do zero damage in small numbers and without the Moonclan formation.

Wouldn't the bows have a higher chance of doing damage that the other option as they wouldn't likely see combat? I play ironjawz so have never played with chaff lol. 

[Nico]

5+, 5+ bows with a 16 inch range, so 1/18 will go through a 4+ save model - not worth taking compared to an extra point of save.  

[gnaleinad]

6 hours ago, Nico said:

You're ignoring the many artillery pieces that don't have crew and are tough against shooting such as the Warp Lightning Cannon and the Plagueclaw Catapult and all the Legion of Azgorth artillery. 

Just recently a competitive friend played a brutal shooting Skaven list to deal death to my Sneaky Frosty Surprise. 
Leaders
Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80)- General - Trait: Lord of War
Verminlord Deceiver (320)- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Thanquol and Boneripper (500)- Warpfire Projectors
Units
Warplock Jezzails x 6 (280)
Clanrats x 10 (60)- Rusty Spear
Clanrats x 10 (60)- Rusty Spear
Clanrats x 10 (60)- Rusty Spear
War Machines
Plagueclaw (180)
Plagueclaw (180)
Plagueclaw (180)
Batallions
Foulrain Congregation (100)

That Lord of War makes his Jazzails deal 2 mortal wounds on a 4+! That Thanquol and Deceiver combo was scary on paper!!
We played "Take & Hold" and "Border War". I modded only the battlebrew to Talisman of Protection.
I won. Because of deployment and tactical models placement.
He had 7 deployments vs my 6. I chose him first and gain double turn for both games.
In "Take & Hold" I deploy my 60 Grots in a way so that "Skitterleap" spell couldn't send Thanquol near my high value units and out of the way of those PlagueClaws. Only his Jezzails fired at my Stonehorn and only deal 1 wound. My double turn let me kill all his Plagueclaws and Jezzails. My Grots shot his army to death.
In "Border War" it very close and I won on points.

Warp Lighting Cannon can be good, if you can reach your target! That 3" move and 24" range is just too easy to hide from during deployment.
Haven't play against Chaos Dwarfs yet. Will do so soon and update here.

6 hours ago, Nico said:

Bloodreavers, Bloodwarriors and Wrathmongers would be a real pain for your Stonelord to deal with (backed by Bloodsecrators) and the Mighty Lord of Khorne is a one third chance of globalling the Stonelord. 

 

Bloodsecrators and Lord of Khorne normally dies to Thundertusks before they do anything.

6 hours ago, Nico said:

GW have really dropped the ball by designing Destruction abilities for Ironjawz, which turn Beastclaw heroes into overpowered and grossly undercosted cheese; balancing BCR internally on the basis of that faction alone; and by giving BCR no incentive to stick to their allegiance and huge advantages from taking undercosted units like Savage Orruks (I agree with Arael above) and Moonclan Grots.

 

Grots are at 100 points for 20 models. They are the most undercosted battleline unit in the entire game with the potential to deal serious damage.
But you know what? Complaining about this is just like being salty about those free Sylvaneth Wyldwoods.

6 hours ago, Nico said:

You're ignoring the existence of Skyborne Slayers/Warrior Brotherhood (aka many Order armies) for one thing. I suspect that would be a partial counter, with 10 Protectors chopping down the Thundertusks (with their 3 inch melee range going over most tiny units of chaff, which they can in any event shoot through beforehand). Alternatively the 10 Judicators plus Venator etc.. can shoot off one of the Thundertusks with a little help from the Lord Celestant. The 5 Decimators would delete other chaff. They would probably need to win the double turn to win, but that's a 50% shot.

 

The Protectors will never reach my Thundertusk or Stonehorn or Chukkas or Heroes in by teleporting in. My 60 Grots can even surround my deployment zone so that all Pop-up can only ever come by the front. My list is anti teleporting and popped up. 3 units of 20 Grots can cover more than 120" in tactical deployment.
Yes it lack the Moonclan Grot ability to block charge with Fanatics.. But hey, turn 1 & 2 if my grots are dying it means my opponent is aiming the wrong units!!! LOL

6 hours ago, Nico said:

Counterpunch armies, e.g. 30 Stormvermin behind 40 Clanrats, 9 Flies behind 30 Plaguebearers could also surprise you - they will delete that Stonehorn faster than you think without mystic shield. Any Death army that has the 5+ ward save is also a huge problem, 6 mortal wounds from the Thundertusks dropping to 4 mortal wounds is devastating. 12 Spirit Hosts with a VLoZD behind them with a Ring of Immortality would beat your army. Throw in a Mourngul to make it a dead certainty.

 

Been there, done that. Stormvermin counterpunch? You are forgetting 2 Thundertusks and 2 Spear Chukkas and 63 Grots Bowmen(champions 2 shots). I will delete those 40 clanrats with Stonehorn and shoot the Heroes/artillery hiding behind those stormvermins. By the time my Stonehorn dies, my opponent will just throw the game. 
Nurgle? 5+ wound saves can be tanky, but still just a war of attrition.
Death? Just focus fire down his heros and the rest are just chaff. 
Only Bloodknights can do something serious.
Zombie Dragon with Vampire Lord? 2 Thundertusk deal 12-14 wounds. Should it survives my Chukkas will just delete it. That revival will only last until my Stonehorn charges in. Better hide that hero at the back against me.
Anyway the best load up for VLoZD is Red Fury and Tomb Blade. It is the best combination. Infinite attacks. Technically it can kill 2/3 Stonehorns. Using against Chuff will heal it to full health. Once it smashed my unit 40 savage orcs like it was butter, no battleshock, deal 80+ wounds.

Mourngul is just a distraction. Against Death always kill the heroes first. A Mourngul without Mystic Shield is killable, 10 wounds only.
I agree that Mourngul is tanky and the AoE is damn crazy, but it's 400 points, I will send my chariot and Grots in to just keep it there while hunting down everyone of those Death Heroes and deleting his troops.

6 hours ago, Nico said:

A mob is like 40 models - it's a great mechanic that you get extra quasi-bravery for that many. However, the fact that 5 Grots are Bravery 6 is just stupid.

The banner is just an ability, only against shooting. Don't hear you complaining about the disgusting save of the Plaguebearers, or the immortal save of the Phoenix Guards..

[Arael]

Red fury granted attack'S cannot generate another series of attack infinite time, still a great setting.

[gnaleinad]

6 hours ago, Arael said:

Red fury granted attack'S cannot generate another series of attack infinite time, still a great setting.

Red fury NEVER generate extra attack. It allows another round of attack. If that another round of attack fulfill the criteria again, that model attacks again. Nothing was generated. It just attack again.
 

[Nico]

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Only his Jezzails fired at my Stonehorn and only deal 1 wound.

This is staggeringly lucky for you. Moreover, why were they shooting at the Stonelord and not at the Thundertusks?

You're right about the limited range of the Warp Lightning Cannons being a problem. 12 Jezzails would be the way to go, as one unit. Should drop 1.5 Thundertusks in the first turn.

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Because of deployment and tactical models placement.

With respect, you won because you brought the FOTM filth which no balanced list (excepting Stormcast) can defeat. You countered the TeleThanqless combo - but that's trivial to do as long as you have advanced warning of it. Also he brought a very expensive Plagueclaw formation against an army where you don't care if all your chaff bodies die. The Plagueclaw are designed to melt significant blocks of infantry - 20 Executioners, 40 Savage Orruk Arrerboyz - that kind of thing, not deal with alpha strikes. They are a bad match up against tough single models (expensive), so I'm not surprised that you won. 

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The Protectors will never reach my Thundertusk or Stonehorn or Chukkas or Heroes in by teleporting in. My 60 Grots can even surround my deployment zone so that all Pop-up can only ever come by the front. My list is anti teleporting and popped up. 3 units of 20 Grots can cover more than 120" in tactical deployment.

I'm pretty surprised by this. It doesn't seem to be enough models to comfortably achieve this. I know that BCR monsters are on undersized bases in the box (another favour they don't need).

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Bloodsecrators and Lord of Khorne normally dies to Thundertusks before they do anything.

They should be on the backline, tempting you to charge in with the Stonelord. Then, you'll only get to kill them if you play for the double turn and get it.

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Been there, done that. Stormvermin counterpunch? You are forgetting 2 Thundertusks and 2 Spear Chukkas and 63 Grots Bowmen(champions 2 shots). I will delete those 40 clanrats with Stonehorn and shoot the Heroes/artillery hiding behind those stormvermins. By the time my Stonehorn dies, my opponent will just throw the game. 
Nurgle? 5+ wound saves can be tanky, but still just a war of attrition.
Death? Just focus fire down his heros and the rest are just chaff. 
Only Bloodknights can do something serious.
Zombie Dragon with Vampire Lord? 2 Thundertusk deal 12-14 wounds. Should it survives my Chukkas will just delete it. That revival will only last until my Stonehorn charges in. Better hide that hero at the back against me.

So you're claiming to have invented the perfect army.

One army that would almost definitely beat this is Prosecutor with Javelin spam. Your lumbering Stonelord can only kill one 3 man unit per turn, meanwhile they are moving like crazy and sniping off the Thundertusks and your artillery crews. 

The Necropolis Knights combo would also beat this.

The Grots are out of range first turn, likely even with the increasingly overpowered D6 move.

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Zombie Dragon with Vampire Lord? 2 Thundertusk deal 12-14 wounds. 

Oh you're one of those players who never rolls a one - it's 10 mortal wounds on average from the main attack, of which he save a third, so that's only 7. Maybe 2/3 of a wound more for 2 Vultures. 7.5 total.

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Anyway the best load up for VLoZD is Red Fury and Tomb Blade. It is the best combination. Infinite attacks. Technically it can kill 2/3 Stonehorns. Using against Chuff will heal it to full health. Once it smashed my unit 40 savage orcs like it was butter, no battleshock, deal 80+ wounds.

While it's ambiguous (it doesn't give an express indication either way as to once only or multiple times), it's pretty clear that this isn't intended to create an infinite loop. Interpreting this as once per turn is overwhelmingly sensible. I wouldn't try this broken ploy at a tournament.

I don't think the Rule of One applies to this, although it would be pretty odd for them to make a big effort of stopping infinite loops only to create a brand new one at the same time in the same book.

[Nico]

Quote

Leaders
Be'Lakor, Chaos Daemon Prince (240)
Kairos Fateweaver (300)
The Changeling (140)
Skarbrand (400)
Sayl The Faithless (160)

Units
Plaguebearers Of Nurgle x 30 (300)
Plaguebearers Of Nurgle x 10 (100)
Plaguebearers Of Nurgle x 10 (100)

Behemoths

War Machines

Batallions

Total: 1740/2000

Here's a somewhat silly list for defeating your list.

All the heroes bunker up behind the Plaguebearers on the backline out of range of the Thundertusks snowballs.

You'll presumably make the Daemons go first, in which case, they will just sit there, although the Changeling will slow down the Stonelord.

Your turn, you'll lumber forward, blow up some Plaguebearers as they are the only unit in Snowball range. You might chip a few wounds off with the Speak Chukkas. Stonelord will either have to waddle foward at half speed or play chase the Changeling.

Kairos ensures that the Daemon player gets the next turn. Be'Lakor uses his ability on the Stonelord. Kairos summons a Lord of Change who lobs Gateway and Arcane Bolt at one Thundertusk. Kairos does D6 mortal wounds to the Stonelord. Sayl speeds up Skarbrand and lobs him incandescent into the Stonelord (this could be 30 Bloodletters instead if so desired). This kills or cripples the Stonelord. The Changeling goes into the Stonelord as well and attacks it with its own Tusk weapons with battlebrew. 50% chance that the Stonelord cannot attack if you pick that one next. In your next turn if the Stonelord is still somehow alive, it still needs to roll a 4+ to do anything. You probably kill Skarbrand.

The Plaguebearers keep on waddling forward and shrugging off your dismal shooting.

The fact that this is such a contrived effort to beat your filth is an indication of how badly balanced mixed BCR are.

[grunnlock]

On 01/11/2016 at 2:37 PM, gnaleinad said:

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (460) - Artefact: Battle Brew
Huskard on Thundertusk (340)
Huskard on Thundertusk (340)
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80) - General, Giant Wolf mount, Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
Goblin Warboss (60) - Git Slicer, Giant Wolf mount, Artefact: Battle Brew
Units
Gitmob Grots x 20 (100) - bows
Gitmob Grots x 20 (100) - bows
Gitmob Grots x 20 (100) - bows
Grot Wolf Chariots x 1 (40)
Nasty Skulkers x 3 (40)
War Machines
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Batallions
Great GitMob (100)
Total: 2000/2000

Pretty cool list with a good synergy!

17 hours ago, gnaleinad said:

That Lord of War makes his Jazzails deal 2 mortal wounds on a 4+!

How's that possible? They deal mortal wounds on 6+, Lord of war gives them +1, so they should deal mortal wounds on 5+. Did he use a damned terrain? Maybe he misread "Pavise" as giving +1 to hit, when it actually makes them rerolls hit rolls of 1.

[N_Watson]

@Nico might be best to simmer down a little on @gnaleinad list critique. 

From when he posted the list as a recommendation you have shot it down quite a bit. 

While everyone is entitled to an opinion, it is kind of derailing the thread and stifling creative discussion. 

Do you have a 2000 point beast claw themed list you would like to recommend? That is the purpose of the thread after all.

And like @gnaleinad, have you got examples of games played where this has worked for you or is it mostly just theory hammer. 

Just trying to get the thread back on track.  

[N_Watson]

On 01/11/2016 at 5:09 PM, gnaleinad said:

The Stonehorn can go a total distance of d6"+12"+d6"+2d6", while my opponent does all the above the FrostLord will just smash a unit with Stonehorn.

Just noticed this as well. Anyone able to clarify this for me. 

"Roll a dice in your hero phase for each unit from your army that is withing 6" if your general or another Hero from your army. The unit can move a number of inches equal to the dice roll as if it were the movement phase, but cannot run. This does not affect their ability to move again later in the turn." 
 

I play Ironjawz, so the Ironfist formation has a similar rule. 

"Roll separately for each unit, and then make it's move in the same manner as a move in the movement phase, except that the unit can't run."

Does this mean that they want you to not roll a further dice in the hero phase movement, like you would if it was a run move, or that when you move in the movement phase, you are not able to nominate to run at all? Couldn't find this in the rules section of the website, so might be best to move this query there. 

[Nico]

I would go with the: 

• Stonelord,
• Thundertusk on Huskard, 
• Thundertusk on Huskard, 
• Thundertusk on Huskard, 
• Moonclan Grots
• Moonclan Grots
• Moonclan Grots
• Grot Shaman
• Fanatics as fit in

This is more or less what Max has used repeatedly over the last few weeks at the South London Legion - he has won 4 games I think and at least 3 of them were over in 2 turns - crushing wins. 

I can see the value of the Gitmob formation with the Stonelords for multiple Battlebrews. 

I don't rate the Bonesplitterz version, as the Bonesplitterz are just pure chaff and are complete garbage. The Gitmob archers are actually decent albeit short ranged and the Chukkas are quite good too.

Sure - I'm trying to road test the list and it's coming through unscathed. It's very annoying which is why I'm a bit grumpy. It was bad under SCGT and now it's a lot worse. There's a degree of gloating/exaggeration about the list, which isn't warranted as it's FOTM, obvious to try and pretty impervious to bad dice rolls (unless you roll a couple of ones on the Snowballs). It's like Clan Skryre in that sense. The Thundertusks are deeply overpowered and really require a tailored opponent to beat them.

 

[Nico]

Quote

Does this mean that they want you to not roll a further dice in the hero phase movement, like you would if it was a run move, or that when you move in the movement phase, you are not able to nominate to run at all? Couldn't find this in the rules section of the website, so might be best to move this query there. 

They cannot run during the deemed movement phase within the hero phase is how it seems to have been interpreted. The wording about not affecting subsequent movement seems to confirm this. The only constraint is that it does count as a retreat that happened during the turn, so you cannot retreat in the hero phase and then charge later.

[grunnlock]

1 minute ago, N_Watson said:

"Roll separately for each unit, and then make it's move in the same manner as a move in the movement phase, except that the unit can't run."

Does this mean that they want you to not roll a further dice in the hero phase movement, like you would if it was a run move, or that when you move in the movement phase, you are not able to nominate to run at all? Couldn't find this in the rules section of the website, so might be best to move this query there. 

Hmmm... pretty interesting. However, I'd personally say you can still run normally during the movement phase. The word "except" makes me play it this way.

[N_Watson]

1 minute ago, Nico said:

I would go with the: 

• Stonelord,
• Thundertusk on Huskard, 
• Thundertusk on Huskard, 
• Thundertusk on Huskard, 
• Moonclan Grots
• Moonclan Grots
• Moonclan Grots
• Grot Shaman
• Fanatics as fit in

This is more or less what Max has used repeatedly over the last few weeks at the South London Legion - he has won 4 games I think and at least 3 of them were over in 2 turns - crushing wins. 

I can see the value of the Gitmob formation with the Stonelords for multiple Battlebrews. 

I don't rate the Bonesplitterz version, as the Bonesplitterz are just pure chaff and are complete garbage. The Gitmob archers are actually decent albeit short ranged and the Chukkas are quite good too.

Sure - I'm trying to road test the list and it's coming through unscathed. It's very annoying which is why I'm a bit grumpy. It was bad under SCGT and now it's a lot worse. There's a degree of gloating/exaggeration about the list, which isn't warranted as it's FOTM, obvious to try and pretty impervious to bad dice rolls (unless you roll a couple of ones on the Snowballs). It's like Clan Skryre in that sense. The Thundertusks are deeply overpowered and really require a tailored opponent to beat them.

 

Yeah, that does seem kinda nuts. I take it the problem that people are having is killing the thunderstusk in one turn so that they can't heal while dealing with a frsotlord on stonehorn and point scoring battle line? 

I agree about the gloating being unwarranted, but almost all grand alliances can take OP lists. Last few tournaments have had balanced outcomes when it comes to factions though. Seen some gunline order, strong death lists with Tomb kings stuff and their has been some nurgle lists in there as well. Not seen a beastclaw list win a tournament though. 

 

3 minutes ago, Nico said:

They cannot run during the deemed movement phase within the hero phase is how it seems to have been interpreted. The wording about not affecting subsequent movement seems to confirm this. The only constraint is that it does count as a retreat that happened during the turn, so you cannot retreat in the hero phase and then charge later.

 

1 minute ago, grunnlock said:

Hmmm... pretty interesting. However, I'd personally say you can still run normally during the movement phase. The word "except" makes me play it this way.

Thanks, this is a game changer for me as it means my Ironjawz characters are going to be a bit quicker up the board as they are not in the Ironjawz formation so do not get the 2d6 movement that they get!

[ogmaadn]

Hey guys!

I'm thinking about expanding my army to 2500 points, so I've thought about 2 different army lists. Which one do you think is more balanced and competitive?

LIST 1 (this list seems more powerful and competitive, but also more boring and maybe less funny to play)

2x Frostlord on Stonehorn (920)

1x Icebrow Hunter (160)

1x Huskard on Thundertusk (340)

1x4 Mournfang (400)

1x3 Icefall Yhetees (120)

1x4 Frost Sabres (120)

4x10 Savage Orruks (400)

And with those 40 points left maybe I can choose some batallion, or maybe just replacing the Huskard's Thundertusk for a Stonehorn. What should I do?

LIST 2 (the thing about this list is that I can play every Beastclaw unit, as well as some magic with the shaman and some magic is definitely funny with the Beastclaw Raiders)

1x Frostlord on Stonehorn (460)

1x Icebrow Hunter (160)

1x Huskard on Thundertusk (340)

1x Wurrgog Prophet (140) / 1x Maniak Weirdnob (100)

1x4 Mournfang (400)

1x3 Icefall Yhetees (120)

1x4 Frost Sabres (120)

4x10 Savage Orruks (400)

1x Stonehorn Beastriders (360)

So there are 2 big questions:

- The first one is choosing between a Wurrgog Prophet or a Maniak Weirdnob. Which one fits this list better? Or who is simply better? In cas I'd go for the Maniak Weirdnob then I could maybe replace the Huskard's Thundertusk for a Stonehorn... So what should I do?

- The second one is is choosing between one of the 2 lists: one more Frostlord on Stonehorn (and using those 40 points left for something), or replacing him with a Stonehorn Beastriders+Wurrgog Porphet/Maniak Weirdnob for some magic (and still adding 1 behemoth to the army).

What do you think? Which option is better? What would you go for?

On the other hand, what equipment do you usually put on your Frostlords, Huskards, Hunters and Beastriders?

[Dorrance]

I've seen that the Yhettees are getting passed over on list construction. Are they really that bad? On paper the 6 inch pile in and attach seems to make them a very versatile late cc choice. (Especially when your opponents unit already activated) 

[N_Watson]

Problem I have with the yettis is that they are bravery 6 on a 6+ armour save. Yes, they would probably do decent damage, but at the expense of being incredibly weak to shooting and battle shock. 

I like the idea of them, but you need to make sure that you always give your opponent something better to shoot. Not hard I guess when you have thundertusk and stonehorn. Lol. 

[gnaleinad]

On 11/3/2016 at 6:45 PM, Nico said:

Here's a somewhat silly list for defeating your list.

Leaders
Be'Lakor, Chaos Daemon Prince (240)
Kairos Fateweaver (300)
The Changeling (140)
Skarbrand (400)
Sayl The Faithless (160)

Units
Plaguebearers Of Nurgle x 30 (300)
Plaguebearers Of Nurgle x 10 (100)
Plaguebearers Of Nurgle x 10 (100)

Total: 1740/2000
All the heroes bunker up behind the Plaguebearers on the backline out of range of the Thundertusks snowballs.

You'll presumably make the Daemons go first, in which case, they will just sit there, although the Changeling will slow down the Stonelord.

Your turn, you'll lumber forward, blow up some Plaguebearers as they are the only unit in Snowball range. You might chip a few wounds off with the Speak Chukkas. Stonelord will either have to waddle foward at half speed or play chase the Changeling.

Kairos ensures that the Daemon player gets the next turn. Be'Lakor uses his ability on the Stonelord. Kairos summons a Lord of Change who lobs Gateway and Arcane Bolt at one Thundertusk. Kairos does D6 mortal wounds to the Stonelord. Sayl speeds up Skarbrand and lobs him incandescent into the Stonelord (this could be 30 Bloodletters instead if so desired). This kills or cripples the Stonelord. The Changeling goes into the Stonelord as well and attacks it with its own Tusk weapons with battlebrew. 50% chance that the Stonelord cannot attack if you pick that one next. In your next turn if the Stonelord is still somehow alive, it still needs to roll a 4+ to do anything. You probably kill Skarbrand.

The Plaguebearers keep on waddling forward and shrugging off your dismal shooting.

The fact that this is such a contrived effort to beat your filth is an indication of how badly balanced mixed BCR are.

Thank you Nico!
That is a very nice list there, strong actually I admit. But will it work like how you plan?
Lets theory talk with 2 battleplans, Escalation and Blood & Glory.
Escalation????
Your army list will be Mangled on the very first round, mainly because I have 12 units and you have 8. You NEED to deploy 3 units, which all must be battlelines, and I need to deploy 4 units, which will be a Stonehorn and my 3 battlelines.  You should know how it will go. Round two will be worse, you bring in another 3 while I bring in 4 more units, which most likely be 2 Thundertusk and 2 Spear Chukkas. This game might not even go into the 4 round. All I have to do is to make sure you have lesser model count.

Blood & Glory?????
I will deploy my unit one by one for 12 deployments vs your 8 deployment, with the Thundertusks and Stonehorn last. Your Changeling will die before turn two because of my hero phase free move. I will just deploy 1 hero within 3", most likely a Stonehorn and kill it. The best bet you have is to Arcane Bolt my warmachine crews ASAP if you chose to go first.
In round 1 the 2 Thundertusk will try to move toward my deployment zone 36" mark with Grot screening in front of them.
Even if you summon up a Lord of Change in the front line I will just Snipe it with Thundertusk and not advance too much.
My mainline and heroes will not advance beyond 20" of the battlefield.
My Wolf Chariot will try to go after the Sayl, and with Blood Vutures and Spear Chukkas. Sayl will be killed by round 2, and if I am lucky in round 1.
Should you be smart and take out my Spear Chukka on the very first turn using Changeling and Lord of Change, you will be still handing me 400 points to start things off.
My Stonehorn will just hide behind my Grots until my Thundertusk snipe down the Skarbrand and any other threat. 
I will be patient. All I have to do is to gain more kill points than you. 
You got no range. No threat.
I will just slowly creep toward you if you don't advance, unit by unit, model by model, water you down.  

Just so you know.. 
My list has been tailored with ALL battleplans in mind, not just to counter.. 
In Gifts from the Heavens and Take & Hold battleplans I will have advantage by just waiting it out.
In Three places of power your heroes will be hunted down.

In Border Wars there might be a good fight. But I will play the long game and snipe characters. 
But I must say it will be a challenging fight.
No matter what, if my dice roll fails me and yours do well you will win the game, this I will not deny.
 

[gnaleinad]

On 11/3/2016 at 6:53 PM, grunnlock said:

How's that possible? They deal mortal wounds on 6+, Lord of war gives them +1, so they should deal mortal wounds on 5+. Did he use a damned terrain? Maybe he misread "Pavise" as giving +1 to hit, when it actually makes them rerolls hit rolls of 1.

Indeed!! It WAS A MISREAD!!!!
Oh Lord Grunnlock!! Thanks!!! And there I was so worried about a rematch.. Now I am not so scare. But it's still bloody good you know?