Alternative Siege Rules for Path to Glory

[bonzai]

I am not a fan of the current AoS siege rules. Random dice rolls don't really capture the excitement and I want to actually have the terrain play a significant role. I want to actually play out the defenses and assaults on the walls. Yeah, I want to recreate the Total War feel on the table top. I also want there to be stakes in path to glory. Where defeats can cause genuine setbacks. So I came up with this system. Please give it a look over. I would love feedback and suggestions to improve it 

1. Siege Fortifications

All siege fortifications have the following rules, in addition to any additional ones found on thier warscroll.

Reinforced Fortification: the damage  characteristic for all attacks that target a siege fortification are reduced by 2. If the unit has the monster or artillery keyword, then thier damage is only reduced by 1. If the unit is a siege weapon, then it's damage isn't reduced at all. If an attack or ability would automatically destroy a siege fortification, it deals d6 mortal wounds instead.

Towering Edifaces: Every siege fortification is impassible to non Flying units, and has a front and rear facing. Flying units can charge garrisoned units from either facing, however non Flying units can only charge the rear facing. Ranged attacks targeting garrisoned units have a -1 to their hit rolls, and targeted units get +2 to save rolls. Units attempting to garrison a siege fortification can only do so from the rear facing.

Fortification Types

Towers: 16 wounds, 4+ save. Add 6 inches to the range of ranged attacks, spells, and other abilities. Totems and general's can issue commands to all friendly units in their line of defense, regardless of range. Towers must be connected to two Siege fortifications that are not towers.

Walls: 14 wounds, 4+ save. Walls must be either connected to a table edge and or another fortification.

Gate: Gates have two profiles, one for the walls, one for the door. If the doors are destroyed, the walls remain and the door is considered open. If the walls are destroyed, the doors are destroyed as well. Walls: 14 wounds, 4+ save. Door: 12 wounds, 4+ save. The gate can be opened and closed by garrisoned units during the hero phase. Gates must be connected to two other Siege Fortifications. While open, the door is no longer considered impassible terrain.

2. Siege Battalions
Siege Battalions are split into two categories, Attacker and Defender. These Battalions can only be used during a siege battle. Multiples of individual Battalions can be taken, though some may gain no benefit from being taken multiple times.

Attacker Battalions

Sappers: 1 hero + troop

When the battalion gets in base to base with a siege fortification remove them from the board. If the unit hasn't been destroyed, then at the begining of your hero phases roll a d6. On a 2+ deal 1d6 mortal wounds to that siege fortification. On a roll of 1 results in a cave in. Deal 1d6 mortal wounds to each unit in the battalion instead. If the siege fortification is destroyed, return the units back to the table wholely within 3 inches of where the siege fortification was taken off.

Tunnel team: 1 hero + 1 troop

This team starts the game in reserve. At the start of your 2nd round hero phase roll a d6. On a natural 1 every unit in tge battalion suffers a d6 mortal wounds due to a cave in. On a 6+, the battalion can be deployed inside the opponents line of defense. The units must be deployed outside of 3 inches of any enemy model or garrisoned siege fortification, and the hero must be wholely within 6 inches from the other unit in this battalion. This counts as these units move for that turn.

Master of ordinance: 1 hero + 1-3 siege weapons

Once per shooting phase, a siege weapon from this battalion my reroll a to hit roll as long as they are within 12 inches of the hero from this battallion.

Ladder teams: 1+ troops

When a unit from this battalion gets in base to base with a siege fortification, the following turn they can attack garrisoned units as if they had the Flying keyword or garrison it if it isn't already attended.

Defender Battalions

Engineering crew: 1 hero + 1 troop. During the hero phase, instead of doing any other actions, the the hero may heal a d3 wounds to any siege fortifications that is in base to base contact with or being garrisoned by both units in this battalion.

Spotter: 1 hero + 1-3 artillery

Artillery from this battalion are treated as having line of sight if the hero from this battalion does. Normal ranges still apply.

Prepared defenders: 1+ troop

Once per game in thier hero phase, each unit in this battalion can deal 1d3 mortal wounds to any unit that is in base to base with a siege fortification that they are garrisoned in. This can only be activated once per siege fortification.

Rune Warded defenses: 1-3 Wizards

As long as the Wizards in this battalion are within your line of defense and not removed from play, all siege fortifications under your control have a 6+ ward save.

Quests

Raid: pick a territory that your opponent controls, and play a Raid battleplan with you as an attacker. If you win a minor victory, gain 10 glory points. If you win a major victory, then you gain 5 glory points and remove any upgrades purchased on that territory.

Siege: Play a siege battle against your opponent, with you as the attacker. If you win a minor victory gain 5 victory points. If you win a major victory, then the defenders stronghold looses all fortifications, and their stronghold level goes down by one. A mighty Stronghold goes down to an Imposing Stronghold, and an Imposing Stronghold drops back down to a a basic Stronghold.

Siege Training: as per the Form warriors into a battalion quest, but you may select a siege battalion instead.

* if the defender loses a major defeat, and loses upgrades or has their stronghold reduced,  they may be over their limit for certain units or Enhancements. If this happens, they cannot actively use those units or Enhancements again until they either they lose enough units to get under the new limit, or they once again raise their limit. Either way, they don't have to repurchase those units again once they are available and they retain any veteran or command abilities that they have. Any Siege Fortifications that were destroyed during a siege can be bought back for 5 glory points each.

Siege Weapons

Siege weapons can only be used by the attacker during Siege battles. They cost 5 glory points each to purchase. They do not count towards the allowed point limit for the battle.

1. Catapult: wounds 5, move 4, Bravery 6, save 4+
Range: 6-36, attacks 1, hit: 4+, wound: 3+ rend -1, damage 1d3

2. Siege Tower: wounds 10, move 4, bravery 6, Save 3+

Siege Towers cannot move without at least 6 embarked models.

Siege assault: when the Siege Tower is in base to base with a wall or gate, embarked units can attack garrisoned units as if they had the Flying keyword or garrison it if it isn't already attended.
Transport: up to 22 models can be embarked in it. Embarked units still count as being on the battlefield. Range and visibility to and from models in an embarked unit are instead measured to and from the transport in which they are embarked. Embarked units are in cover. In addition subtracts one from hit rolls for attacks that target an embarked unit are measured to and from the transport. Embarked models can't contest objectives, and cannot move. However when a transport makes any kind of move, embarked units are considered as having made the same kind of move.

3. Ram: wounds 8, move 4, bravery 6, save 3+
Melee: range 2', attacks 2, hit 2+, wound 3+, rend -2, damage d3

Rams deal an additional +2 damage to gate doors. Rams cannot move without at least 6 embarked models.

Transport: up to 12 models can be embarked in it. Embarked units still count as being on the battlefield. Range and visibility to and from models in an embarked unit are instead measured to and from the transport in which they are embarked. Embarked units are in cover. In addition subtracts one from hit rolls for attacks that target an embarked unit are measured to and from the transport. Embarked models can't contest objectives, and cannot move. However when a transport makes any kind of move, embarked units are considered as having made the same kind of move.

4. Ballista: wounds 5, move 4, bravery 6, save 5+
Range: 30, attacks 1, hit 3+, wound 3+, rend -2, damage 2.

Stronghold Upgrades

Strongholds: Regular strongholds allow a player to purchase one Siege Weapon and one Attacker Siege battalion. Can be upgraded to a Fortified Stronghold for 10 glory points. Fortified Strongholds get two walls and a Gate. They can also have 2 Defender Siege Battalions. Up to 2 towers and 2 walls can be added for 5 glory points each.

Imposing Strongholds: Imposing Strongholds allow a player to have up to three Attacker Siege Battalions and three Siege Engines. A Fortified Stronghold can be upgraded to a fortress for 20 glory points. A fortress can purchase two additional towers and two additional walls for 5 glory points each, for a max of 6 of each, and one additional gate for 5 glory points. In addition, a Fortress can have up to 4 Defensive Siege Battalions.

Mighty Stronghold: Mighty Strongholds can have up to 5 Siege Battalions, and 5 Siege Engines. A Fortress can be upgraded to a Citadel for 40 points. A Citadel can purchase two additional towers and walls for 5 glorypoints each, for a maximum of 8 of each, and an additional gate for 5 glory points, for a total of 3. In addition a Citadel can have up to 6 Defensive Battalions.

Battle Plans

Raid

The Armies: the player who is doing the Raid Quest is the Attacker. The challenged player is the Defender.

The Battlefield: the Defender sets up the battlefield, and has to have at least 3 terrain pieces wholely within their territory.

Faction Terrain: the defender can set up a Faction terrain feature.

Deployment: The Defender deploys first. Each player must deploy at least 6 inches from the the center of the table, wholely within their territory.

Battle Length: the battle lasts for 5 battle rounds.

First Turn: the Attacker determines who gets first turn.

Victory Points: The Defender picks three terrain features wholely within their territory. At the end of the game, the Defender gains a victory point for each of these terrain features that the opponent has not destroyed or control. The Attacker gains a victory for each terrain feature that they have destroyed or control.

Glorious Victory: the Defender wins a major victory if they control all three terrain features at the end of the game. The attacker wins a major victory if they have destroyed or control all three terrain features at the end of the game.

Bonus Renown:
Attacker: each unit that captures one of the three designated terrain features gains 1 renown point.
Defender: each unit that controls one of the three terrain features at the end of the game, or recaptured one from an enemy, gains 1 renown point.

Siege

The Armies: the player who is doing the Siege Quest is the Attacker. The challenged player is the Defender.

The Battlefield: the Defender sets up the battlefield, first he needs to set up an objective or terrain feature within his his territory. Next, they set up any Siege Fortifications that they have available to them. Walls must connect to either a table edge or another Siege Fortification, all other Siege Fortifications must connect to two other Siege Fortifications. All siege fortifications must have their front facing toward the opponents territory. Any area that is behind the fortifications closest to the attacker is referred to as the line of defense for rules purposes. Lastly they set up any other terrain as normal.

Faction Terrain: the defender can set up a Faction terrain feature.

Deployment: The Defender deploys first. Territories split the table in two through the middle of the long table edges.

Battle Length: the battle lasts for 5 battle rounds.

First Turn: the Attacker determines who gets first turn.

Victory Points: The Defender gains a victory point for each siege fortification that the opponent has not destroyed or controls at the end of the game. The Attacker gains a victory for each Siege Fortification that they have destroyed or control.

Glorious Victory: the Defender wins a major victory if there are no enemy units within their line of defense at the end of the game. The attacker wins a major victory if they have destroyed or control all the designated terrain feature or objective at the end of the game.

Bonus Renown:
Attacker: The first friendly unit that controls or destroys an enemy siege fortification gains 1 renown point. This renown point can be earned once her enemy siege fortification that the enemy has deployed.

Defender: any friendly unit that destroys an enemy hero gains 1 renown point.

Edited August 1, 2023 by bonzai

[JackStreicher]

Sounds great!

is it intentional that attacks might cause 0 to -x damage?

I want this as pdf

[bonzai]

59 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Sounds great!

is it intentional that attacks might cause 0 to -x damage?

I want this as pdf

I wanted Siege fortifications to be resistant to regular damage, monsters and artillery to have a chance to whittle them down, and Siege weapons to have a definitive roll and purpose. One of my biggest concerns while creating these rules was to make them durable enough to be a factor, while destructible enough to be destroyed after a turn or two of focused fire.

[NinthMusketeer]

I agree that making them flat out immune to low-damage weapons is a good way to mechanically represent the narrative of fortifications, good call!

The situation that defenders on a wall cannot be attacked at all from its front side (minus fliers) feels too much to me. I think it is perfectly fine for melee (especially because the siege ladder battalion exists), but for range it doesn't make sense. After all, walls are built with crenelations and the like specifically because people on the wall get shot at. In my opinion it would be better to say units garrisoned on a wall can be shot at (with the listed penalties) from any angle, but gain a 4+ ward against wounds allocated from attackers that were in front of the fortification.

I think the sappers battalion is fun and thematic, but I notice that even if the underground unit dies to cave ins one still gets to keep rolling to damage the fortification--is that intentional?

Tunnel Team, IMO, is bad for the game. As someone who regularly runs Skaven with 6" teleports/deep strikes I know from experience how tremendously powerful being able to arrive closer than 9" is, and with the only restriction being 3" is will be near impossible for the defender to block out an interior of any decent size. I understand the randomness of only coming in on a 6+ acts as a counterbalance, but that ultimately just makes it far more likely that a match will be decided by one good dice roll (or lack of it). I also feel that narratively, it kinda craps on armies that bring their own tunneling/infiltration mechanics by going 'oh everyone can do that, and potentially better than you'. Apologies if this comes across as harsh, I just don't want to understate things.

Spotter I also feel would be better off either removed or overhauled. As it stands a hero could sit in a tower/wall/other high point to get view of the whole battlefield, then allow cannons to teleport their shots through the wall in front of them to hit enemies on the other side without penalty. I feel a better alternative would be special rules for garrisoned artillery on fortifications getting extra bonuses by default.

IMO prepared defenders really needs to be a 3" range or at least 1", because otherwise it just means attackers will always want to avoid charging/piling into base contact and instead stay just within melee range to attack but not risk taking damage from this battalion.

I love the rune-warded defenses battalion on multiple levels! First off it is giving wizards a defensive benefit rather than further buffing their offense/spellcasting like so many other wizard-based boons do, and it actually depends on the units in the battalion for the benefit. So many battalions have required units but offer literally nothing for having optional slots filled and this battalion avoids that, which I really appreciate. Questions would be what "in your line of defense" means and why priests cannot also fill slots?

[bonzai]

1 hour ago, NinthMusketeer said:

I agree that making them flat out immune to low-damage weapons is a good way to mechanically represent the narrative of fortifications, good call!

The situation that defenders on a wall cannot be attacked at all from its front side (minus fliers) feels too much to me. I think it is perfectly fine for melee (especially because the siege ladder battalion exists), but for range it doesn't make sense. After all, walls are built with crenelations and the like specifically because people on the wall get shot at. In my opinion it would be better to say units garrisoned on a wall can be shot at (with the listed penalties) from any angle, but gain a 4+ ward against wounds allocated from attackers that were in front of the fortification.

I think the sappers battalion is fun and thematic, but I notice that even if the underground unit dies to cave ins one still gets to keep rolling to damage the fortification--is that intentional?

Tunnel Team, IMO, is bad for the game. As someone who regularly runs Skaven with 6" teleports/deep strikes I know from experience how tremendously powerful being able to arrive closer than 9" is, and with the only restriction being 3" is will be near impossible for the defender to block out an interior of any decent size. I understand the randomness of only coming in on a 6+ acts as a counterbalance, but that ultimately just makes it far more likely that a match will be decided by one good dice roll (or lack of it). I also feel that narratively, it kinda craps on armies that bring their own tunneling/infiltration mechanics by going 'oh everyone can do that, and potentially better than you'. Apologies if this comes across as harsh, I just don't want to understate things.

Spotter I also feel would be better off either removed or overhauled. As it stands a hero could sit in a tower/wall/other high point to get view of the whole battlefield, then allow cannons to teleport their shots through the wall in front of them to hit enemies on the other side without penalty. I feel a better alternative would be special rules for garrisoned artillery on fortifications getting extra bonuses by default.

IMO prepared defenders really needs to be a 3" range or at least 1", because otherwise it just means attackers will always want to avoid charging/piling into base contact and instead stay just within melee range to attack but not risk taking damage from this battalion.

I love the rune-warded defenses battalion on multiple levels! First off it is giving wizards a defensive benefit rather than further buffing their offense/spellcasting like so many other wizard-based boons do, and it actually depends on the units in the battalion for the benefit. So many battalions have required units but offer literally nothing for having optional slots filled and this battalion avoids that, which I really appreciate. Questions would be what "in your line of defense" means and why priests cannot also fill slots?

I appreciate all of  the feedback. Regarding ranged attacks on garrisoned units, that is my bad. It was my intention that they could be shot at, but be immune to melee from the front. I will edit it and clarify it. That one is on me. I will also clarify the sappers battalion so that if they die, the damage rolls stop.

Regarding the tunnel fighters, I appreciate the feedback. I wanted to provide a means for armies to get inside the line of defense that otherwise might not have the option. I think I may put a restriction that prevents them from charging the turn they come in, and in echang3 they add the turn number to their reserve roll.

Spotters would do exactly as you describe. There may be better options for it. Perhaps a reroll ones mechanic. I will think on it.

Lastly, I think prepared defenders are ok. In order to fight, the attackers have to pile in to fight, do the next hero phase they should be in base to base 

Great feedback, I very much appreciate it 

[NinthMusketeer]

Thanks! I am glad my communication didnt come across the wrong way

 

Fighters don't have to pile-in when in melee, nor do they have to pile all the way into base contact; they could stop 1mm away. (all they have to do is attack if in range)

Edited August 2, 2023 by NinthMusketeer

[Beliman]

I love this project!

On 7/31/2023 at 9:46 PM, JackStreicher said:

I want this as pdf

I had some spare time to work on an edited "non-official" expansion based 100% on @bonzai Siege rules:

Siege_CustomBattles.pdf

Updated!

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Beliman

[JackStreicher]

45 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I love this project!

I had some spare time to work on an edited "non-official" expansion based 100% on @bonzai Siege rules:

Siege_CustomBattles.pdf 13.38 MB · 2 downloads

Looks professional!

[bonzai]

On 8/2/2023 at 6:18 AM, Beliman said:

I love this project!

I had some spare time to work on an edited "non-official" expansion based 100% on @bonzai Siege rules:

Siege_CustomBattles.pdf 13.38 MB · 2 downloads

Holy ******! That is awesome. I may need to sweet talk you into doing one for the Mega battle rules pack I am working on.

[Beliman]

On 8/3/2023 at 2:25 PM, bonzai said:

Holy ******! That is awesome. I may need to sweet talk you into doing one for the Mega battle rules pack I am working on.

There are a few mistakes that I need to polish but glad that you liked!

Edited August 19, 2023 by Beliman

[NinthMusketeer]

Man I wish I had the programs needed to make my docs look that good, nice work adapting the official layout & artwork effectively!

Edited August 4, 2023 by NinthMusketeer

[Beliman]

On 8/2/2023 at 1:18 PM, Beliman said:

I love this project!

I had some spare time to work on an edited "non-official" expansion based 100% on @bonzai Siege rules:

Siege_CustomBattles.pdf 14.29 MB · 0 downloads

Updated!

 

I fixed some mistakes and polished a few things.

To follow oficial supplements, it could be fun to have some lore blurbs to add to Battalions, quests, siege weapons, etc... It looks better with some italic paragraphs between titles and stuff.

[Colonic]

This looks really good. Would it help for someone to pass their eye over it to help spot typos, areas of potential confusion etc?

I wanted to ask, are the Raid and Siege quests intended to not need any earning of Quest Points to get to the battleplan. Do you just get to do the battleplans right away?

[JackStreicher]

On 8/7/2023 at 12:06 PM, Beliman said:

I fixed some mistakes and polished a few things.

To follow oficial supplements, it could be fun to have some lore blurbs to add to Battalions, quests, siege weapons, etc... It looks better with some italic paragraphs between titles and stuff.

Do you have a pdf version of an empty AoS Rules-Page lying around? Would safe myself the trouble of creating one myself

[Beliman]

On 8/13/2023 at 7:53 AM, JackStreicher said:

Do you have a pdf version of an empty AoS Rules-Page lying around? Would safe myself the trouble of creating one myself

I have some assets in my computer, but I'm in a road trip until wednesday. If you don't mind to wait...

Edited September 8, 2023 by Beliman

[JackStreicher]

8 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I've got some assets in my PC, but I'm in a roud trip until wednesday. If you don't mind to wait...

I don’t mind. Thx in advance!

[bonzai]

On 8/12/2023 at 4:24 PM, Colonic said:

I wanted to ask, are the Raid and Siege quests intended to not need any earning of Quest Points to get to the battleplan. Do you just get to do the battleplans right away?

Yes. The Quest is basically playing the battleplan as an attacker. No need to unlock them. 

[bonzai]

On 8/7/2023 at 5:06 AM, Beliman said:

I fixed some mistakes and polished a few things.

To follow oficial supplements, it could be fun to have some lore blurbs to add to Battalions, quests, siege weapons, etc... It looks better with some italic paragraphs between titles and stuff.

I don't suppose I could sweet talk you into one more update? The Rune Warded defenders has the same text as the prepared defenders. Was probably a copy and paste error. Also, I think NinthMusketeer was right, and it should be changed from base to base to within 3 inches.

Other than that, it looks amazing!

[Beliman]

Yep. No problem.

Write the page and the text that you want to change, followed for your new description between [ ].

E.g: page 3, Change the description of Sappers for:

[Once per battle, in their hero phase, if you play with Kharadron Overlords, you can destroy the whole fortification because there is no castle or wall that can stop us muahahaha]

 

 

 

[bonzai]

On 9/13/2023 at 1:57 PM, Beliman said:

Yep. No problem.

Write the page and the text that you want to change, followed for your new description between [ ].

E.g: page 3, Change the description of Sappers for:

[Once per battle, in their hero phase, if you play with Kharadron Overlords, you can destroy the whole fortification because there is no castle or wall that can stop us muahahaha]

 

 

 

Page 3, Tunnel Team battalion.

[This battalion starts the game in reserve. At the start of your 2nd round hero phase roll a d6. On a natural 1 every unit in the battalion suffers a d6 mortal wounds due to a cave in. On a 6+, the battalion can be deployed inside the opponents line of defense. The units must be deployed outside of 3 inches of any enemy model or garrisoned siege fortification, and the hero must be wholely within 6 inches from the other unit in this battalion. This counts as these units move for that turn and cannot charge that turn. Keep rolling every turn, adding +1 to the roll for each additional round they are in reserve until the battalion is either destroyed or comes in from reserve. ]

page 4 Prepared Defenders Battalion

[Once per game in their hero phase, each unit in this battalion can deal 1d3 mortal wounds to any unit that is within 3 inches of a siege fortification that they are garrisoned in. This can only be activated once per siege fortification.]

page 4 Rune Warded Defenses Battalions 

[As long as the Wizards in this battalion are within your line of defense and not removed from play, all siege fortifications under your control have a 6+ ward save.]
 

Thanks again!

[Beliman]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:22 PM, bonzai said:

Page 3, Tunnel Team battalion.

[This battalion starts the game in reserve. At the start of your 2nd round hero phase roll a d6. On a natural 1 every unit in the battalion suffers a d6 mortal wounds due to a cave in. On a 6+, the battalion can be deployed inside the opponents line of defense. The units must be deployed outside of 3 inches of any enemy model or garrisoned siege fortification, and the hero must be wholely within 6 inches from the other unit in this battalion. This counts as these units move for that turn and cannot charge that turn. Keep rolling every turn, adding +1 to the roll for each additional round they are in reserve until the battalion is either destroyed or comes in from reserve. ]

page 4 Prepared Defenders Battalion

[Once per game in their hero phase, each unit in this battalion can deal 1d3 mortal wounds to any unit that is within 3 inches of a siege fortification that they are garrisoned in. This can only be activated once per siege fortification.]

page 4 Rune Warded Defenses Battalions 

[As long as the Wizards in this battalion are within your line of defense and not removed from play, all siege fortifications under your control have a 6+ ward save.]
 

Thanks again!

Done!

Siege_CustomBattles.pdf

Edited September 27, 2023 by Beliman

[bonzai]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:26 AM, Beliman said:

Done!

Siege_CustomBattles.pdf 14.29 MB · 0 downloads

Awesome! Thank you.