A Very Small Sneak Peek Into the 3.0 Metagame

[swarmofseals]

@yukishiro1 Yeah, I can buy that argument against god lists specifically (at least against Archaon, Nagash I think it depends on the build). But against something like double or triple Stonehorn lists, double Mawkrusha, Sons of Behemat, Vhordrai + Dragon or Mannfred + Dragon Soulblight I think they dynamic works against you.

Gotrek is also really bad against heavy shooting (and two of the major god lists (Morathi Stalkers or Teclis Sentinels) are both good at shooting.

I guess I'm doubtful that the kinds of god lists that Gotrek is good against ever become predominant enough for him to be something like an auto-include particularly given his shortcomings and the fact that Age of Sigmar metagames are basically never as warped in practice as they appear to be on paper (even when a faction is obviously broken it's basically never more than 15% metagame share).

[yukishiro1]

I dunno, is Gotrek actually that bad against the shooting lists we see these days? Against Skinks yes, sure. But against say Sentinels and Stalkers...I haven't done the math but I would think he'd actually be a pretty terrible target for them to shoot, they don't have a huge volume of attacks or high rend, and he has a 3+ ward for the mortals. Although he could theoretically be kited, that's where the rest of your army comes in, and when they have so many points invested in a god + shooting, they can't really afford to be kiting with everything anyway. 

I also think he's great against SoB, nothing in that army can really touch him, it all gets murdered by him, it all relies on being in melee, and you can't tarpit him because you don't have anything to tarpit with. I mean maybe a list that takes a bunch of individual mini gargants and just feeds them to him...but even so, he's making his points back that way. SoB rely on bullying people, but Gotrek means they're the ones getting bullied. 

He definitely needs the right list to make him work - IMO you need a fast-moving heroic monster, some fast units to block off space, and some effective shooting that you can use to pressure your opponent to either come within Gotrek's range and get smashed or stand off your shooting and get blown up. But I think he might actually legitimately be top tier now in that sort of list. 

His big weakness is movement and charge debuffing spells, those'll take him out of the game for sure, but at least right now those are pretty rare to see. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

19 hours ago, Enoby said:

The more I think about Gotrek and the amulet of destiny, the more I think Sigvald will be a good tech for everyone who can take him. 

He won't one shot Gotrek, but on a 7 to charge he'll do about 4 damage, or 5 with finest hour (may kill him in one shot with a higher charge value though). Not amazing, but in Slaanesh you can make him pile in twice immediately after a charge (which would kill him on average - no guarantees). 

This is more for Nurgle (if you can find a more fitting proxy or conversion for Sigvald) or Tzeentch, Slaves to Darkness, whoever else can take him. Having something to put pressure on ward saves, who is kinda cheap ish, and who doesn't need their own allegiance abilities to function is very useful if ward saves start appearing more commonly. He's not a half bad tanky unit either, though won't do too hot against Gotrek.

Slaanesh is such an interesting case this edition. The more I look at the army, the more it seems to have all the tools necessary to succeed in the new rules environment. I'm really interested to see if the rules team was right all along with respect to their points and whether they will turn out to actually be a strong, but not oppressive army this time around.

[swarmofseals]

I've added data from a big 74 person tournament on TTS that is scheduled to start soon. There are a lot of recognizable names playing, both from the international tournament scene as well as TTS regulars. I'd say this is probably the most competitive of the tournaments that I've compiled for this thread.

Overall the metagame is shaping up and some emerging themes are clear:

Monster mash lists are very popular. You should be prepared to face things like Sons of Behemat with 3-4 megas, Ogor Mawtribes with multiple stonehorns, Soulblight double dragon or dragon/mortarch, and Seraphon Thunder Lizard lists. You'll also occasionally face Nagash or Archaon.

Shooting lists are not as prevalent as many have feared. There are some KO lists and Cities lists with a fair amount of shooting, but perhaps the most common shooty build is DoK's Morathi + 15 Blood Stalkers. Lumineth also tends to feature a fair amount of shooting, either from sentinels, wind spirits or both.

Seraphon is the most played faction thus far, but the faction is shaping up very differently from the past. While there are a few lists that are more skink focused, many if not most lists aren't even running Kroak. The most common lists involve a Slann Starmaster and a nice array of monsters. It's one of the few factions that is throwing a lot of monsters that aren't super tough.