Idoneth Sharks as allies

[Frowny]

Looking at the warscroll for the Idoneth sharks, the cant-pile-in seems very strong. As a unit they are also relatively self-contained- while obviously the idoneth allegiance abilities help them, they also do fine on their own and dont need command abilities/spells to make them shine. This has me pondering them as allies, especially for CoS or DoK. With CoS i'm wondering how powerful it might be with pistoliers who do their damage in the charge phase, or in DoK with sisters of slaughter, to abuse the 6 inch pile in on sisters of slaughter even more. While not amazing on their own, the sharks also do OK damage for their cost.

I'm considering 2 of them for the 8/9ths chance of getting off the no pile in if needed (2 shots on the net launchers). Interestingly they don't seem used a lot in the idoneth book itself, so am wondering if the ability isn't as strong as I think it is in my head. 

Has anyone used them with the net launchers specifically as allies?

 

[yukishiro1]

They only got the ability in Morathi a month or two ago, and were flat-out terrible before that book reworked their datasheet, which is why you didn't see them.

It is potentially an extremely powerful ability, but it is also very finnicky to set up, and it is important to realize it only works on your turn, so they can pile in again as normal on their own turn. So you can't lock anything down indefinitely - though if you get a double turn, you can lock it down for both of your turns if you hit both times.

I guess it'd let you shield your pistoliers from getting attacked back by more than one model if the unit only has 1" range weapons, until your opponent's turn when they'll just kill them. Though I guess there's a potentially pretty brutal combo there with the double turn, if you can shoot, charge and shoot, melee, avoid taking many hits back, then shoot/magic off the rest of the unit on the double turn, then charge something ELSE, and maybe even avoid dying to that too because you've also netted that one...

[Frowny]

I was thinking more along the lines of a multi charge. For example, get unit A with the nets, charge nearby unit B with a bunch of stuff but during my charge, tag unit A on an edge or corner 2.5 inches out. Hopefully I mostly wipe out unit B minimizing damage there, and then unit A can do zero damage my turn (with 2 inch or less weapons) and then nearly zero damage their turn with only a few models making it on the pile in. Then rinse and repeat. 

[swarmofseals]

It's definitely a powerful ability. I think there is a lot of potential there as their baseline stats are OK. The problem, as always, is finding room for them in lists.

Edit: here's a rough sketch for DOK:

 

Bloodwrack Medusa (general)

2x Hag Queen

2x20 Blood Sisters

1x10 Blood Stalkers

10 Witch Aelves

2 Akhelian Allopexes

 

This list isn't going to break the game or anything, but I think it'd play well in a lot of matchups. The combination between the net launchers and Blood Sisters should be pretty obvious. I hate not having room for shadowstalkers, but at least the speed of the allopexes helps mitigate that a bit.

Edited January 22, 2021 by swarmofseals

[Popisdead]

There is a sylvnaeth I posted in that subthread taking advantage of that ability coupled with the no retreat ability of Household.  I think it's a hidden gem.

[Frowny]

In the above, you could drop the witch elves and take some shadow stalkers. With the new book stalkers are also battle Line. I also think you might want to drop something to get a hag on cauldron. Maybe -5 sisters and then use the points to put one hag on an alter. You could also drop a 2nd 5 sisters for an avatar to get the +1 on prayers. Some ideas.

 

 

[Landohammer]

So the shark is definitely a good way to spend an extra 110 points, especially for softer books like Sylvaneth or maybe even Cities. It essentially is a way to tie up a scary unit for a turn, since most units rely on pile ins to do damage.

However the downside is that the unit will often just kill them on the players next turn since the effect wears off. So its not something I would build around. Its more of a minor tool to have on your belt for relatively minimal investment. They are also good objective grabbers.

A similar affect can be derived from a unit of Concussors though. They are 220 points and their pile in deny ability activates in the combat phase, and they are extremely survivable.  They could possibly tie up a horde unit indefinitely, or at least force the player to use their first activation to try and deal with them.