High Tide rule in Idoneth Deepkin

[puchat]

Hi I have a question about High Tide rule in Idoneth Deepkin armies. Can this ability prevent the opponent from spent RDP to activate command abilities Shieldwall in OBR army? One of my opponents insisted on it, because his attack happens at the beginning of the combat phase.

[HollowHills]

14 minutes ago, puchat said:

Hi I have a question about High Tide rule in Idoneth Deepkin armies. Can this ability prevent the opponent from spent RDP to activate command abilities Shieldwall in OBR army? One of my opponents insisted on it, because his attack happens at the beginning of the combat phase.

Hi Puchat. If both abilities trigger at the start of the combat phase then the player whose turn is taking place chooses which happens first. So in this case if it is HIS TURN your opponent can fight before you use RDP to activate Shieldwall. However, in YOUR TURN you can activate Shiedwall before he gets to fight. Does that help?

[EMMachine]

14 minutes ago, puchat said:

I have objections for the same reason because Shieldwall it is not triggered ability but an activated ability. "At the start of combat" is only once so everything that happens there should be resolved before we goes to combat. In my opinion, there is a difference between triggered and activated ability.
Following what you wrote, since all unit fights through High Tide in "at the beginning of combat" I could still use this activated ability or any other activated ability.

I'm wrong?

@HollowHills is correct. Here is the point from the Corebook FAQ

 

Quote

Q: If several abilities are triggered at the same time (at the start
of a hero phase, for example), how do you determine the order in
which they are used?
A: If several abilities can be used at the same time, the
player whose turn is taking place uses their abilities
first, one after the other, in any order they desire; then
the player whose turn is not taking place uses their
abilities, one after another, in any order they desire.
The same principle applies to any other things – such as
command traits or artefacts of power – that can be used
simultaneously. Note that abilities used at the start or
the end of a phase still count as being used in the phase
in question.
For example, the Flesh-eater Courts Savage Strike
command trait allows a general to fight at the start of
the combat phase, while the Stormcast Eternals Sequitor
Aetheric Channelling ability is used at the start of
the combat phase too. In the Flesh-eater Courts turn,
the Savage Strike command trait would take effect
before the Sequitor Aetheric Channelling ability. In
the Stormcast Eternals turn, the Sequitor Aetheric
Channelling ability would take effect before the Savage
Strike command trait.

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by EMMachine

[EMMachine]

Just now, puchat said:

@EMMachine but like I said this is activated ability with the condition to run not a triggered ability which is waiting for the appropriate condition to occur as in the comment you provided. AOS doesn't predict the difference between activated and triggered ability?

You activate Shield wall at the start of the Combat phase. But the active player activates first. It doesn't matter if it is an attack, an ability, command ability or something else.

If it is the Idoneth Deepkins turn, he activates anything that can be activated at the start of the combat phase and after he has done it you can do (in the Deepkins turn with High Tide any of his units will have attacked before you can activate shieldwall).

In the Ossiarch Bonereaper Turn the Bonereapers can activate anything that can be activated at the start of the combatphase before the Deepkin even have the chance to attack.

[EMMachine]

6 hours ago, puchat said:

Follow this path, we apply this scenario to everyone triggered ability, even Khorne, the Halo of Blood artefact?

Yes, it is the same procedure there. If it is the Khornes opponents turn, the opponent can activate all units und abilities that are activated at the start of the combatphase. Only after those when it is the Khornes players turn for activating "at the start of combat stuff" he can use "Halo of Blood"

It's a rule that GW has intended that way: Who fights first , but sadly only written as parts of the FAQ never as a rule in the Errata.

The more interesting cases are when fighting first and fighting last hit the same target, like we have in that thread:

 

[puchat]

I have objections for the same reason because Shieldwall it is not triggered ability but an activated ability. "At the start of combat" is only once so everything that happens there should be resolved before we goes to combat. In my opinion, there is a difference between triggered and activated ability.
Following what you wrote, since all unit fights through High Tide in "at the beginning of combat" I could still use this activated ability or any other activated ability.

I'm wrong?

[puchat]

@EMMachine but like I said this is activated ability with the condition to run not a triggered ability which is waiting for the appropriate condition to occur as in the comment you provided. AOS doesn't predict the difference between activated and triggered ability?

[puchat]

Follow this path, we apply this scenario to everyone triggered ability, even Khorne, the Halo of Blood artefact?