Arkiham Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I'm going up against some ironjawz and stormcasts ( with lots of ranged ) next week an im trying to build a list or two to go against them, preferable one which can go against both. ( no hard counters just good units ) i'm not too confident tbh. not sure why. here's the lists i was thinking of using, Unit name Minumum Models in unit Cost Number of units Unit cost Models Total 2000 Aspiring Deathbringer 1 80 1 80 1 1920 0 0 1920 Blood warriors 5 100 8 800 40 1120 Daemon prince of khorne 1 160 1 160 1 960 Wrath of khorne bloodthirster 1 360 1 360 1 600 Bloodsecreator 1 120 2 240 2 360 Chaos warshrine of khorne 1 200 1 200 1 160 Skullreapers 5 140 1 140 5 20 0 0 20 this was the main list i was thinking of taking. The emphasis is on the blood warriors, two units of 5 on the flanks and one unit of 30 central with the warshrine, banners and aspiring deathbringer near the large unit, this should give them a huge amount of attacks per warrior, 5 each with 6 on champion. with the unit having 3 Gore Glaives also those guys will be really racking up the kills, both when they die an when they attack. the skullreapers also should be within range of both banners an maybe within range of the general, in the centre of the battle in front of the warshrine giving the unit a huge amount of attacks again. the warshrine. this is optional, i replaced a slaughterbrute with this as i felt is added more sustain and synergy, the buff being able to be used on itself it should hold its own in combat and doesnt count as a monster yet has high wounds/damage potential, and due to the banners this stays high until its basically dead. the daemon prince an bloodthirster counter flankers/shock units, as required. Unit name Minumum Models in unit Cost Number of units Unit cost Models Total 2000 Harbinger of Decay 1 140 1 140 1 1860 Plaguetouched warband 140 0 1720 Blightkings 5 180 3 540 15 1180 Bloab rotspawned 1 260 1 260 1 920 Festus the Leechlord 1 120 1 120 1 800 Warriors of Nurgle 10 180 2 360 20 440 Chaos Knights 5 200 2 400 10 40 Remaining points 40 this list is alot more defensive, the idea is to endure an slowly become stronger via festus using his spell, with the opponent suffering wounds when they attack the blightkings ( unit of 14 ) from the blightkings spell and attacks obviously. Bloab is quite key to this, his spell hopefully doing loads of damage, if not ,hes quite capable in combat. Unit name Minumum Models in unit Cost Number of units Unit cost Models Total 2000 Fatesworn Warband 120 0 1880 Lord of Tzeentch on disk 1 140 1 140 1 1740 Tzeentch sorcerer lord 1 120 1 120 1 1620 Tzeentch Halberd warriors 10 180 3 540 30 1080 Tzeentch marauders 10 60 2 120 20 960 Tzeentch Lord on daemonic mount 1 80 2 160 2 800 Tzeentch Knights 5 200 2 400 10 400 Tzeentch Warshrine 1 200 1 200 1 200 Tzeentch Gorebeast chariots 1 100 2 200 2 0 this list is again survivable due to the ward save from the battalion on the large unit ( 27 ) their own mortal wound save and the warshrine ward save, means this unit can pretty much just march up the board an sustain, the 2" range and rend means i should also pump out alot of attacks the knights, lord on daemonic mount and chariots can act as a shock group an charge in and hopefully crush the opponent's objective taking units. the marauders are just there to act as roadblocks for a combat phase or two on the flank an not give up too many points. i prefer the khorne list but i feel it will suffer against the stormcasts, but i dont feel any other list i have is up to facing them without hard building it to counter them. any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Problem with mortal Nurgle is that the Stormcast player can be smart and take the first turn (before you can use your command ability for the 5+ ward bubble), so no ward save = game over to Starsoul Maces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I feel like a massive block of tzeentch warriors like that isn't going to get much in range even with halberds. I also feel like rerolling 1s on saves is much less beneficial than marauders special rule for over 20 models - especially when you have disk lord to reroll failed results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 I only own 20 marauders, and about 100 chaos warriors, I don't really want to buy more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I don't fault you there. I hate the current marauder models and i'm reeeeeally excited to get tzaangors and acolytes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddok Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Does the warshrine's ability stack with the fatesworn's? It seems like they're the same thing. On tzeentch: Also important to remember that halberds don't give rend, just the greatblades do. 4's and 4's with 2 attacks a piece isn't crazy. They wont die but I also don't think they'll kill anything. Also am I reading it wrong or did you not pay any points for the gorebeast chariots? On Khorne: Why do you use the WoK thirster without a demon unit to buff with his aiblity? Do you just use his command ability on himself? Or is someone else the general? I worry that that list is too slow to survive sustained shooting. How many judicators are you going against? If its 10 or more I'd think the thirster and DP would be dead in a turn, leaving you to arrive piecemeal. The 30 blood warriors is beastly, but have you found it unwieldly? Seems like a lot. On Nurgle: Are you against plague claws? If you're playing defensively, I think they'd compliment your force really well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 They do stack, but believe me, they don't save as much as you would hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 50 minutes ago, Maddok said: Does the warshrine's ability stack with the fatesworn's? It seems like they're the same thing. On tzeentch: Also important to remember that halberds don't give rend, just the greatblades do. 4's and 4's with 2 attacks a piece isn't crazy. They wont die but I also don't think they'll kill anything. Also am I reading it wrong or did you not pay any points for the gorebeast chariots? On Khorne: Why do you use the WoK thirster without a demon unit to buff with his aiblity? Do you just use his command ability on himself? Or is someone else the general? I worry that that list is too slow to survive sustained shooting. How many judicators are you going against? If its 10 or more I'd think the thirster and DP would be dead in a turn, leaving you to arrive piecemeal. The 30 blood warriors is beastly, but have you found it unwieldly? Seems like a lot. On Nurgle: Are you against plague claws? If you're playing defensively, I think they'd compliment your force really well Tzeentch : halberds don't have rend no, but the fatesworn warband gives all mortal tzeentch units rend if part of it. so they gain rend, an yeah you've read it wrong, the number on the right is points left after purchase. the dp/thirster isnt the general in that list, the aspiring deathbringer is, but im not too confident in his ability to survive against the stormcasts. this is the alternative list Unit name Minumum Models in unit Cost Number of units Unit cost Models Total 2000 Mighty lord of khorne 1 140 1 140 1 1860 0 1860 Blood warriors 5 100 8 800 40 1060 Daemon prince of khorne 1 160 1 160 1 900 Wrath of khorne bloodthirster 1 360 1 360 1 540 Blood secreator 1 120 2 240 2 300 Slaughterbrute 1 200 1 200 1 100 Slaughterpriest with hackblade. 1 100 1 100 1 0 0 0 0 Nurgle : i also have a nurgle list with them in, but i felt that list survived longer, here is two lists ive made previously with them in. Unit name Minumum Models in unit Cost Number of units Unit cost Models Total 2000 Glottkin 1 480 1 480 1 1520 0 1520 Plagueclaw Catapult 1 180 2 360 2 1160 Plaguebearers 10 100 3 300 30 860 Chaos warriors of Nurgle 10 180 2 360 20 500 Epidimus 1 180 1 180 1 320 Festus The leechlord 1 120 1 120 1 200 Chaos Knights 5 200 1 200 5 0 Unit name Minumum Models in unit Cost Number of units Unit cost Models Total 2000 Bloab rotspawned 1 260 1 260 1 1740 0 1740 Plagueclaw Catapult 1 180 2 360 2 1380 Plaguebearers 10 100 3 300 30 1080 Chaos warriors of Nurgle 10 180 2 360 20 720 Epidimus 1 180 1 180 1 540 Festus The leechlord 1 120 1 120 1 420 Chaos Knights 5 200 2 400 10 20 im unsure about the survivability as mentioned and offensive capabilities of those lists. i believe 15 retributors, 3 groups of 5, 15 decimators, a prime, lord on dracoth & two archer hero guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Nico said: They do stack, but believe me, they don't save as much as you would hope. It's just a tiny bit worse than their 5+ parry in 8th - rolling for one face on dice is just mentally a downer when you don't hit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 It's the fact that quite a lot of the time, you'll roll 9 or 10 dice and not get a single 6 - that's depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 41 minutes ago, Nico said: It's the fact that quite a lot of the time, you'll roll 9 or 10 dice and not get a single 6 - that's depressing. An other times roll 6 an hit 4 sixes. Nuffle is cruel like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digdug Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 For your Tzeentch list, you've used the wrong point cost for the Tzeentch Lord on Daemonic Mount. Lord on Daemonic mount costs 140 points. May affect your decision once you re-work things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, Digdug said: For your Tzeentch list, you've used the wrong point cost for the Tzeentch Lord on Daemonic Mount. Lord on Daemonic mount costs 140 points. May affect your decision once you re-work things. 9 minutes ago, Digdug said: For your Tzeentch list, you've used the wrong point cost for the Tzeentch Lord on Daemonic Mount. Lord on Daemonic mount costs 140 points. May affect your decision once you re-work things. I did notice this, I gain 20 points, I forgot to swap the values over from 2 chariots. Don't think I'd gain anything from that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor0298 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 what stormcast makes them lose the 5+ ward save? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 the hero archers. once per battle ability does like d3+3 damage plus other ranged attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Arkiham said: the hero archers. once per battle ability does like d3+3 damage plus other ranged attacks. D6+3 vs heroes, but still has to be in range, hit, wound, and get through armor. Still, some of that is pretty easy to do with 12" move, 2+/3+. Rend is only 1 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 22 minutes ago, daedalus81 said: D6+3 vs heroes, but still has to be in range, hit, wound, and get through armor. Still, some of that is pretty easy to do with 12" move, 2+/3+. Rend is only 1 though. yeah its painful if it gets through, im giving him the ward save that game so he has 4+( arm ) 5+5+ saves if i run nurgle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 how about this modification to the khorne list. Unit name Minumum Models in unit Cost Number of units Unit cost Models Total 2000 Aspiring Deathbringer 1 80 1 80 1 1920 0 0 1920 Blood warriors 5 100 8 800 40 1120 Bloodstoker 1 80 1 80 1 1040 Wrath of khorne bloodthirster 1 360 1 360 1 680 Bloodsecreator 1 120 2 240 2 440 Manticore lord of khorne 1 300 1 300 1 140 Skullreapers 5 140 1 140 5 0 0 0 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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