FEC Gristlegore: how many is too many?

[Big Rob]

Hi all, 

I'm wondering how monster-heavy a FEC Gristlegore army can go while still being at least somewhat viable. 

In a perfect world I'd be interested in a "pure" monster list, but I doubt that would be any good (or would it!?). The battletome allows for something silly like:

AGK on Terrorgheist (general)

AGK on Terrorgheist

4x Terrorgheist/dragon (battleline)

= 2000 exactly

Anyways, if anyone knows how monster heavy a Gristlegore army can go while still being (at least somewhat) playable, I'd love to hear the reasoning-and sample army lists if possible! I especially like the zombie dragon model, but I know that unmounted they have no health regeneration (outside of a battalion) which is rough. 

Thanks, 

[Evil Bob]

Well pre-2.0 updated book FEC walked out of 2019 LVO a winner doing alpha-raged-mortal wounds with four GKoTG.  So anything is possible.

I’d approach it from the alternative battleline numbers.  1600 points of Terrorgheists verses 1600 points of ghouls (plus whatever endless spell or Courtier they get after discount).  With melee dice 28 on TGs verses 480 on ghouls with a worse stat line.  With wounds 56 on TGs 4+ save verses 160 on ghouls 6+.  

In any sort of protracted attrition the TGs will lose to everything, even goblins.  The fight will come down to you playing in top form and your opponent placing his forces in such a way that his point values will be well under half of yours at any one time.  In match play it is almost a guaranteed loss with a horde enemy army who will wrack up VPs faster than you can kill them (assuming they haven’t overwhelmed the TGs along the way).

For a lark I’ve actually tried the big critter approach in Battletomb:LoN during a league once, using minimum sized units of Direwolves to meet the battleline.  It was risky wins when they left me openings and a loss twice when they properly played-for-the-objectives.  My placement was 3rd on Wednesday game  night out of 10 or so people.  Barely enough to make it into ladder tournament that had top players from both game days fight for supremacy.  I crashed out during the second battle after one round of bad dice rolls.  When relying on few quality attacks there is little room for error.

[Honk]

8 hours ago, Big Rob said:

if anyone knows how monster heavy a Gristlegore army can go while still being (at least somewhat) playable

That list of yours looks totally fine to me... your playstyle needs to be on point, terrain and scenarios might kick you, but who cares. 

If you do care, things get tricky...

remove one Tg (-300) to get the battalion (+120) with extra cp, artifact and extra maw for the 2. gkotg. that leaves you with 180 points to spare... cogs and chalice for 100, some area denial palisades for 30 and another cp...

You start with 3 CP, cast the cogs and the chalice where you kinda want the carnage to happen, then charge in your menagerie with one gkotg, which will heal d3 wounds each HP to the Tgs, one d3 from the battalion and then from the bloodbath you created (chalice).

the other gkotg is your general, summons up some horrors and flanks. His „always strikes first“ together with frenzy should make him deadly enough while the menagerie is stomping through everything...

those are the easy ways to play gristlegore...

cut out the battalion and spend the 300 on an archregent with cogs and chalice?! Totally fine...

throw out another Tg for...???...600points of things?! Might think about going feast day. But the gkotg with first strike, rerolling and frenzy is pretty good. If you play him defensively, because the menagerie comes crashing, even heavy shooting gets into trouble.

[Big Rob]

11 hours ago, Honk said:

That list of yours looks totally fine to me... your playstyle needs to be on point, terrain and scenarios might kick you, but who cares. 

If you do care, things get tricky...

remove one Tg (-300) to get the battalion (+120) with extra cp, artifact and extra maw for the 2. gkotg. that leaves you with 180 points to spare... cogs and chalice for 100, some area denial palisades for 30 and another cp...

You start with 3 CP, cast the cogs and the chalice where you kinda want the carnage to happen, then charge in your menagerie with one gkotg, which will heal d3 wounds each HP to the Tgs, one d3 from the battalion and then from the bloodbath you created (chalice).

the other gkotg is your general, summons up some horrors and flanks. His „always strikes first“ together with frenzy should make him deadly enough while the menagerie is stomping through everything...

those are the easy ways to play gristlegore...

cut out the battalion and spend the 300 on an archregent with cogs and chalice?! Totally fine...

throw out another Tg for...???...600points of things?! Might think about going feast day. But the gkotg with first strike, rerolling and frenzy is pretty good. If you play him defensively, because the menagerie comes crashing, even heavy shooting gets into trouble.

Thanks for the feedback! I like the idea of adding menagerie battalion in place of a 4th battleline monster. Menagerie also lets me run dragon battleline more comfortably thanks to healing. Instead of adding ~180 points of spells, could I maybe add a mini monster like varghulf instead? Just to up the wound/model count? 

Thanks! 

[Big Rob]

15 hours ago, Evil Bob said:

Well pre-2.0 updated book FEC walked out of 2019 LVO a winner doing alpha-raged-mortal wounds with four GKoTG.  So anything is possible.

I’d approach it from the alternative battleline numbers.  1600 points of Terrorgheists verses 1600 points of ghouls (plus whatever endless spell or Courtier they get after discount).  With melee dice 28 on TGs verses 480 on ghouls with a worse stat line.  With wounds 56 on TGs 4+ save verses 160 on ghouls 6+.  

In any sort of protracted attrition the TGs will lose to everything, even goblins.  The fight will come down to you playing in top form and your opponent placing his forces in such a way that his point values will be well under half of yours at any one time.  In match play it is almost a guaranteed loss with a horde enemy army who will wrack up VPs faster than you can kill them (assuming they haven’t overwhelmed the TGs along the way).

For a lark I’ve actually tried the big critter approach in Battletomb:LoN during a league once, using minimum sized units of Direwolves to meet the battleline.  It was risky wins when they left me openings and a loss twice when they properly played-for-the-objectives.  My placement was 3rd on Wednesday game  night out of 10 or so people.  Barely enough to make it into latter tournament that had top players from both game days fight for supremacy.  I crashed out during the second battle after one round of bad dice rolls.  When relying on few quality attacks there is little room for error.

Yea I hear you about the few models/attacks issue- it's why I was skeptical about such a concept. But hearing about a 4 AGKoTG list winning is certainly something! Could 4 be the "sweet spot" with monster lists? Or simply a result of the behemoth restrictions? 

[Honk]

3 minutes ago, Big Rob said:

Instead of adding ~180 points of spells, could I maybe add a mini monster like varghulf instead?

Theoretically yes, supporting the summoned knights might make them a viable and a bit scarier.

but cogs will get your beauties charging across the field, 16“ is fast... while the chalice will provide healing in a 24“ bubble, while the cuties will wreck face. So my profound couch expertise and insights let’s me to the believe, that the spells are stronger (except against stronger magic)

6 minutes ago, Big Rob said:

But hearing about a 4 AGKoTG list winning is certainly something! Could 4 be the "sweet spot" with monster lists? Or simply a result of the behemoth restrictions? 

There was a list with arkhan scoring 5th last year I recall, by ? Bill Souza? the name eludes me all the time. But he is a next level sun-tzu tactician...

but 4 gkotg with 3x10 ghouls and cogs with chalice sounds mean. On a sidenote, behemoth restrictions do not apply to gristlegore battleline 😂👍