Piling in and Multiple Combats.

[hobgoblinclub]

My first thread! 

This one is giving me sleepless nights.

When a unit is in combat with two enemy units, can it break coherency in order to maximise piling in on two fronts? The alternative seems to be forcing the unit to leave a conga line of non-fighting models between the enemy units. Trying to visualise this as a real fight makes for some ridiculous mental images.

How are people playing it? Thanks. 

[Jonatan]

1 hour ago, Darth Alec said:

I've played it so that you cannot break coherency for any reason. Not even by removing casualties. Keeps things simple. No "when do we have to move back into coherency?".

This is a healthy way to do it.  The only time that it feels abit strange to play it like this is when 1 unit is fighting two units. 

<Enemy>                <<unit>>                <Enemy>

The models in the middle of  <<unit>> wont be able to pile because the will break coherency. 
 

From a tactical point of view I think its cool, but in a non competative environment it feels wierd. 

However it can be solved it with: 
 

1 hour ago, Darth Alec said:

The rules do say that that if you lose coherency, you must use the first move to get back into it. So I assume there are supposed to be situations where you can lose it.

Even if it takes to moves, the units prioity must be to get into coherency in the movement phase. 

 

I think both ways are legit and dont have a problem with either.

[Ben]

My reading of the rules says that you can't willingly move out of coherency, but you can remove casualties leaving some models out.  

I'm sure someone can give you a firmer answer on this

[hobgoblinclub]

It seems to me that they combatants would break coherency to fight, and move back into coherency when the fight was over, assuming they were still alive.  I'd like to see a ruling that said units in combat could ignore coherecy. I wonder what the FAQ will bring...

[Darth Alec]

I've played it so that you cannot break coherency for any reason. Not even by removing casualties. Keeps things simple. No "when do we have to move back into coherency?".

 

The rules do say that that if you lose coherency, you must use the first move to get back into it. So I assume there are supposed to be situations where you can lose it.

[Terry Pike]

2 hours ago, Darth Alec said:

The rules do say that that if you lose coherency, you must use the first move to get back into it. So I assume there are supposed to be situations where you can lose it.

You can use various rules to force people to break coherency. An example would be the Stardrakes bite special attack that allows you(attacker) to select which model is removed. unit of plaguebearers e.g 7 dudes, champion, musician, banner.

         Stardrake
d d d B d d M d d C

Stardrake eats the Banner or the Musician and the unit is forced to break coherency.

[Jonatan]

So if the you by no means can break coherency from a rules perspective, shoundt that apply to the stardrakes bite and hand of dust etc aswell? ;))

To be honest I do think that coherency should be allowed to be broken, aslong as the unit in the following turn use their move to get closer to the models from their unit. Even if this means retreating from combat.  

[hobgoblinclub]

It feels weird but today's FAQ states clearly you can't break coherency. That's my question answered. Conga lining between combats it is. 

[Knight of Ruin]

Well, you can still remove models from the conga line, instead of the battle front. It then says, that the next time you move, you must move back in coherency, or not move at all. 

 

So if you remove models from the conga line, and combat is not resolved at that point, you can simply not move and keep fighting those two combats.

[Ben Johnson]

7 hours ago, Knight of Ruin said:

Well, you can still remove models from the conga line, instead of the battle front. It then says, that the next time you move, you must move back in coherency, or not move at all. 

 

So if you remove models from the conga line, and combat is not resolved at that point, you can simply not move and keep fighting those two combats.

Exactly this.

If a unit finds its self not in coherency it must the next time it moves (move, charge, rum, pile in, teleport, any move) it must move back into coherency or not move at all 

[BaldoBeardo]

I've always played like this, and it's kind of the AoS version of a flank/rear charge - because you can only pile-in toward closest enemy model (not unit) and units cannot break coherency when piling in, it allows you to minimise retaliation by forcing a unit to 'apple-core', which means some models won't be able to fight.

[Bedge]

The scenario I can think of is when you start allocating wounds to a multi wound model, but not enough to kill it. That model is linking the unit to maintain coherency. If it later takes enough damage to kill it you have no option but to allocate wounds to it and lose coherency. Aside from that I can't see any way you can voluntarily lose coherency - especially with one wound models. 

Obviosuly if a star drake eats your models thats outside your control 

[Veterannoob]

On 4/20/2016 at 9:50 PM, Ben said:

My reading of the rules says that you can't willingly move out of coherency, but you can remove casualties leaving some models out.  

I'm sure someone can give you a firmer answer on this

I agree you can die, leaving your unit out of coherency. You just have to get back into coherency your next movement phase. But at event always good to ask your TO, or even opponent.