Measuring Herdstone's Buffs

[Carnivore]

Hello noble Ladies and Gentlemen!

There is a question due to the herdstone.

In the warscroll it says, that the buffs effects apply to units wholy within 6" in first turn. It gains 6" for each turn though.

Now the question is:

Where is it measured from?
Is the point of measuring the center of the stone, or is it the outline?

I measured the diametre of the stone, to give it a fitting base. I can't provide the correct abse sizes in inches, but in cm:

The stone itself has roughly 11cm. I'd suggest it is 12cm due to the objects at the outlining of the model. It would also fit those 6" steps for each turn.

How is it measured then? From the middle, or the outline?

Want to give my local playersa correct information, and I want to put the stone on a base to give it further modelling.

Cheers///

[SwampHeart]

I don't know that my answer is the correct answer but I measure from any point on the Herdstone itself. It doesn't have a base so I just measure from anywhere on the model (effectively closest to closest). 

[Carnivore]

As it seems there isn't any official statement to this.

Apparently, as we do measure each distance from Base to Base, meaning the outline itself, I would suggest it is the same with the herdstone.

[Isotop]

22 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

I don't know that my answer is the correct answer but I measure from any point on the Herdstone itself. It doesn't have a base so I just measure from anywhere on the model (effectively closest to closest). 

I think the problem is: Rules for measurement in AoS are referring to models specifically. According to the rules, each model has a warscroll. Therefore, entities without a warscroll are not models (the toad - "model" the Ripperdactyls can drop is an example for a non model marker). I guess the Herdstone is only described in the battletome and has no warscroll of its own? If that is the case, we might need an erratum on the topic. This would also cover other allegiance sceneries like the Bad Moon Loonshrine. 

[Choombatta]

All terrain models have warscrolls.

I would think, you would only measure from the center of the Herdstone, if the rule said to.

In all other cases I would just stick to the core rules, and measure from the closest point of each model's base.

[SwampHeart]

On 2/9/2019 at 7:11 AM, Isotop said:

I guess the Herdstone is only described in the battletome and has no warscroll of its own? If that is the case, we might need an erratum on the topic. This would also cover other allegiance sceneries like the Bad Moon Loonshrine. 

Nope, its a warscroll, just like the Loonshrine. It has a page entry and a fully formatted warscroll. 

[Isotop]

On 2/9/2019 at 3:01 PM, Choombatta said:

All terrain models have warscrolls.

I would think, you would only measure from the center of the Herdstone, if the rule said to.

In all other cases I would just stick to the core rules, and measure from the closest point of each model's base.

 

2 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

Nope, its a warscroll, just like the Loonshrine. It has a page entry and a fully formatted warscroll. 

Thanks for the info guys. The Herstone being a model means you have to measure from the closest point (on the herdstone) to the base of the model you want to check range to - just as @SwampHeart said he does it. @Choombatta, you can not use the Herstone´s base as a point of reference, since it has no base - at least if we all agree on my perception of what a "base" is. What do you guys think? Does the Herdstone/Gnarlmaw/... have a base?

[Choombatta]

4 hours ago, Isotop said:

@SwampHeart @Choombatta, you can not use the Herstone´s base as a point of reference, since it has no base - at least if we all agree on my perception of what a "base" is. What do you guys think? Does the Herdstone/Gnarlmaw/... have a base?

All models have a "base".

Not all bases are made from black plastic.

"Base" is just the lowest point on any model, or the part of the model that touches the table.

For the Herdstone, you treat it similar to the Balewind Vortex. You measure from the closest part of the bottom of the model.

[Isotop]

10 hours ago, Choombatta said:

All models have a "base".

Not all bases are made from black plastic.

"Base" is just the lowest point on any model, or the part of the model that touches the table.

For the Herdstone, you treat it similar to the Balewind Vortex. You measure from the closest part of the bottom of the model.

I think we should clearly differentiate facts from opinions here. You are stating your proposition like a fact, but you provide no proof backing it. I have serious doubts about "All models have a "base"" because:

 

"[...]  If a model does not have a base, measure to and from the closest point of that model instead [...]"

(https://ageofsigmar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2018/06/AoS_Rules-ENG.pdf, page 1 under Measuring Distances)

 

This part of the rules is not directly contradicting your statement, but it is a strong indication of it being false. Maybe you are seeing something else in the rules I am missing - in this case, feel free to add the missing information.

 

[Carnivore]

Techniqually the Herdstone does have a warscrollm wich is a "Scenery Warscroll":

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads//ENG_AoS_BeastsOfChaos_Herdstone.pdf



 

[Choombatta]

How do you play the "Overgrown Wilderness" rule for the Citadel Wood?

The rule states "Models are not visible to each other if an imaginary straight line 1mm wide drawn between the closest points of the two models crosses over more than 1" of the base of a Citadel Wood".

How can this be if the Citadel Wood has no base?

[Isotop]

1 hour ago, Choombatta said:

How do you play the "Overgrown Wilderness" rule for the Citadel Wood?

The rule states "Models are not visible to each other if an imaginary straight line 1mm wide drawn between the closest points of the two models crosses over more than 1" of the base of a Citadel Wood".

How can this be if the Citadel Wood has no base?

That is a very nice point you make. It seems the Wyldwood template/ground part is indeed a "base" (at least if we want Overgrown Wilderness to work ^^). The point I was trying to make is that there seem to be models without bases (implied by the rule about measurement I quoted). I guess we are hitting some substantial questions here:

 

(1) Does the word "base" always have the same meaning ruleswise (or are there different kinds of "bases")?

(2) How to we find out if a model has a base?

(3) If a model has a base and the answer to (1) is "no", how do we find out what kind of base we are dealing with?

 

What do you guys think?