Is the 'Blade of the Blood Queen' a good starting point for Legion of Blood?

[ClockworkGeo91]

Or does it use the wrong unit type?

[lare2]

It's a great box and is a fantastic place to start, whatever legion you're after.

The only real issue for LoB off the top of my head is there are no vamps in it. LoB buffs vamps, be they Lords or Blood Knights.  

[Sception]

Eh.  Depends on how competitively minded you are.  If you worry about that stuff, then you probably won't get much use of the morghasts, grave guard, or wight king, and the box isn't actually a bargain at all if you're only using the mortarch and 20 skeletons.

Imo, the competitive core of any of the legions of nagash is 40 skeletons, 30 grimghasts, and a necromancer.  For legion of blood, things you might consider expanding that with include:

• Neferata and/or a dragon lord and/or a coven throne
• One or more vamp lords
• Maybe a second necromancer
• Maybe a terrorgheist (to take advantage of blood's extra bravery debuff
• Maybe 1 or more tomb banshees (same reason)
• Maybe another 40 skeletons
• 5 to 10 dire wolves, as needed to fill battleline
• Maybe some blood knights
• Maybe a corpse cart or mortis enging for casting buff

None of that's super firm, as blood is the legion i have the least experience with.  But regardless, there's not a lot ov overlap there with any of the available start collecting or battleforce boxes.

Unfortunately, while all of our bulk boxes are great deals money-wise, and full of great models, from a competitive angle none of them really emphasize our best units.

Blade of the blood queen is better for grand host, who still probably don't want the guard, king, or morghasts, but at least can make better use of them with that legion's extra buffs to deathrattle and morghast units.  But outside of them, I'd mostly just recommend getting the units you want individually.

[kenshin620]

Yea, its a bit weird that the box set that features Neferata doesn't have the usual people you'd see in a LoB army, namely a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon. Blood Knights too, but they're not plastic and they dont pack non plastics in boxes.

[Sception]

There was a short lived flesh eater box that had a varghulf in it (and, on the topic of flesh eaters, their start collecting box actually is a good starting point, if only because the army has very few units and even fewer model kits, so the box kind of cant help but include some of everything that's actually good in that army, with the sole exception of a varghulf).

Otherwise, yeah, the fact that grimghasts are a brand new kit and vampire lords arent in plastic is a pretty good explanation of why our better stuff isnt in easily acquired boxes.  I dont see any particular malice in it.  The biggest problem is that the legions of nagash has a ton of units, but with comparatively little variety between them in terms of combat roles.  Why field zombies when skeletons are the same unit but three times more deadly for only a third more cost?  Why field grave guard when grimghadts are the same unit but twice as fast and twice as durable for *less* points?  Why field wight kings when vamp lords are faster, killier, heal other units more, can heal themselves, are wizards, and can use their otherwise largely identical command ability on both your skeletons and your grimghadts, where wight kings can inly target the former, all for only 20 points more?  Why outflank vargheists in a legion of night list when harbingers do the same job much, much  better?  Why field black knights when dire wolves can do nearly everything they do but for half the points cost plus they fill battleline slots.

In some cases this might come down to particular units being maybe too good (grimghasts feel a bit underpriced to me, even outside of these comparisons), or others being just bad (people, including myself, have been complaining about grave guard and wight kings since the first general's handbook), but the bigger problem is the redundancy.  Too many too similar units in one faction will inevitably lead to some units being just outright better versions of others

Short of full redesigns with more varried & specialized roles, i cant think of much that would fix the underlying problem.  Good battalions could help, but for whatever reason the designers saw fit to grace the legions with very few battalions, and even fewer good ones.

 

*NOTE*, before you go running out to grab a bunch of blood knights, there were rumors that we might see a plastic kit for them, as well as a plastic vamp lord, some time in the next year or so.  The rumor might turn out to be complete bologna, but you never know.

[kenshin620]

50 minutes ago, Sception said:

 

*NOTE*, before you go running out to grab a bunch of blood knights, there were rumors that we might see a plastic kit for them, as well as a plastic vamp lord, some time in the next year or so.  The rumor might turn out to be complete bologna, but you never know.

 

While they're old as sin (and also getting harder to find), I would have found it acceptable to use Bretonnian knights and paint them up as Knights of the Black Grail for blood knight stand in. Or if allowed, could use the more dynamic fireforge knights.

 

But yea ironically while everyone from Aelves to Ogors to Beastmen want to have Legions of Nagash books, the LON book itself is pretty terribly balanced internally even before the Nighthaunt update.

[Sception]

Ekves, ovres, and skaven would probably work better, at least in terms of internal balance, with a legions style book, since they've all got wider unit variety.  The undead legions are arbitrarily and unnecessarily restricted in that area due to having basically no ranged units or war machines.

[ClockworkGeo91]

Thanks for the responses everyone - As I suspected it might not be perfect for starting a legion of blood army but it would more or less get me to 1000pts (non competitive) straight away.

[Sception]

1 hour ago, ClockworkGeo91 said:

Thanks for the responses everyone - As I suspected it might not be perfect for starting a legion of blood army but it would more or less get me to 1000pts (non competitive) straight away.

If you're not overly concerned with competitive play, it's a fantastic box with great minis at a solid discount.  Maybe better for night or especially grand host than for blood, since they have more boosts for deathrattle and morghasts, but still not bad either way.  Hou will want to grab some more vampires sooner rather than later, though.

[ClockworkGeo91]

43 minutes ago, Sception said:

If you're not overly concerned with competitive play, it's a fantastic box with great minis at a solid discount.  Maybe better for night or especially grand host than for blood, since they have more boosts for deathrattle and morghasts, but still not bad either way.  Hou will want to grab some more vampires sooner rather than later, though.

Yeah, I think my first purchase would be some blood knights and Vampire Lords and fill out my block of 40 skellies

[GeneralZero]

I'd go 2 buying ways:

1. you just want LoB and few units, not really competitive approach but with nice and efficient units.

In this approach, the box is useless. (we are speaking LoB, right?). First, get a FEC SC, and build you VLoZD and Vargheist. Resell the FEC parts. Then, 1 box of Dire wolves. 10 dw. always usefull and gives you 2*5 battleline. It's never a waste. Then, you go for central blobs. Thematically, skelies or zombies. I'd go skellies. A box of SC Skeleton hords is always useful. Minimum 1 necro + 1 VL . Then complete as you whish...

2. You go Death long time investment. (What I did). Your box is really nice if you like the Harbinger and the grave guards like I did; then, each of death SC, you got many options. 2 necros and 1 VL. Complete the skeletons to 40. and 3 boxes of reapers and 1 soul wars. Then complete as you whish... And don't forget Nagash.

Then, you have several builds efficient to test and enjoy the full death game.

As a bonus, you can still go in several directions: NH is the main. ANd mix them all for more builds.

[ClockworkGeo91]

34 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

I'd go 2 buying ways:

1. you just want LoB and few units, not really competitive approach but with nice and efficient units.

In this approach, the box is useless. (we are speaking LoB, right?). First, get a FEC SC, and build you VLoZD and Vargheist. Resell the FEC parts. Then, 1 box of Dire wolves. 10 dw. always usefull and gives you 2*5 battleline. It's never a waste. Then, you go for central blobs. Thematically, skelies or zombies. I'd go skellies. A box of SC Skeleton hords is always useful. Minimum 1 necro + 1 VL . Then complete as you whish...

2. You go Death long time investment. (What I did). Your box is really nice if you like the Harbinger and the grave guards like I did; then, each of death SC, you got many options. 2 necros and 1 VL. Complete the skeletons to 40. and 3 boxes of reapers and 1 soul wars. Then complete as you whish... And don't forget Nagash.

Then, you have several builds efficient to test and enjoy the full death game.

As a bonus, you can still go in several directions: NH is the main. ANd mix them all for more builds.

Thanks for the detailed plan, much appreciated since I'm pretty new to Death. Hadn't thought about the FEC box, but you are right, I could assemble what I needed and sell on.

That being said I can get this box for 80£ currently and Neferata and 2 boxes of skellies would cost me 78£ anyway, which was why I considered it for the extra models. So combining this with your advice. I'd go this box, the FEC box and then Dire wolves for a start.

Thoughts?

[GeneralZero]

Neferata is inside the skeleton horde Start collecting box! you can assmble the 3 mortarchs with those boxes and don't glue the hero: it can ride the monster even without magnet!!