Remove article 15 of the Offensive Weapons Bill (HC Bill 232)

[valenswift]

I am asking people in the UK to sign this petition

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/222776

It will curtail your ability to buy any modelling tool with a blade online, snips, scrapers anything really. It bans the distance selling of bladed items to a residential address which is described as anything that can break the skin. Most people will assume that this means knives but it also means many of the things we use for OUR hobby. I understand that knife crime is a real problem at the moment but this misguided bill goes to far and will affect many people who wouldn't dream of committing such crimes.

[Mohojoe]

Thanks bud, been meaning to sign this for a while. I make hand crafted knives and carry one often for wild camping so I’m fairly against the change. I hadn’t even considered that the hobby would be effected too. Insane. 

[AGPO]

3 hours ago, Mohojoe said:

Thanks bud, been meaning to sign this for a while. I make hand crafted knives and carry one often for wild camping so I’m fairly against the change. I hadn’t even considered that the hobby would be effected too. Insane. 

Your stuff will be excluded under Section 16(2) for custom made items, which provides an exception for custom made pieces, and Section 16(4) which allows exceptions for sporting items.

It's also worth noting generally that hobby knives  shouldn't be covered by this, since the definition in Section 17(1b) actually uses the following definition (emphasis my own): 

Quote

b) is capable of causing a serious injury to a person which involves cutting that person’s skin.

This is an important distinction since under both English and Scottish law a serious injury is generally held to be one that requires hospital treatment as an in-patient. 

All that's not to say that companies won't hedge and not sell craft knives online, but  does anyone in the UK really live  *that* far from a GW or Hobbycraft that they can't just stock up occasionally?

[Mohojoe]

Oh wow I didn’t know that, thanks bud! 

[valenswift]

17 hours ago, AGPO said:

Your stuff will be excluded under Section 16(2) for custom made items, which provides an exception for custom made pieces, and Section 16(4) which allows exceptions for sporting items.

It's also worth noting generally that hobby knives  shouldn't be covered by this, since the definition in Section 17(1b) actually uses the following definition (emphasis my own): 

This is an important distinction since under both English and Scottish law a serious injury is generally held to be one that requires hospital treatment as an in-patient. 

All that's not to say that companies won't hedge and not sell craft knives online, but  does anyone in the UK really live  *that* far from a GW or Hobbycraft that they can't just stock up occasionally?

These are replies from a friend of mine that has an online business that this will directly affect.

Ultimately case law will decide that. But it is easily argued that a 1mm blade in a slashing motion is capable of causing serious injury. Snips depending on size, can cut off a finger, sever a tendon or artery. No business is going to take the risk

Regarding access, some people are obviously fine. Many are not. Consider this legislation will hit woodworking tools badly. A hobby which is populated by many older people in rural communities who may not drive, or even if they do drive they may still find it hard to find carving and turning tools in their locale.

Majority of tradespeople are self employed contractors, not businesses. They operate their business from residential addresses.

Ultimately section 15 will do nothing to prevent knife crime. It will only serve to hugely inconvenience a wide range of trades and hobbies.

[Max_b]

I suggest that people take the time to get in touch with their MP, perhaps by writing to them, or booking an appointment at one of their surgery’s.

you can also make a representation to the committee in parliament who are considering this bill following its second reading. They are currently encouraging written representations to be made over the next 4 weeks, showing how this bill will adversely affect you.

section 15 is horrendous, it would prevent us from supplying scissors, snap off knives, window scrapers, and filling knives to DIY’ers and home users residential addresses to hang wallpaper, clean windows, and smooth filler to walls and ceilings. 

The stupidity of this new bill shows, because it will however allow us to supply a 10” Bowie Knife to a residential address if if they buyer says it it is to be used for sports, combat sports between individuals, historical reenactment, or has been made, or modified to the buyers specifications... this could be as simple as engraving their initials on the blade.

The bill needs amending so that exemptions are also provided  for home use, diy use, craft use, hobby use, cooking and culinary use. 

Otherwise sect 15 of this bill will be nothing more than a cynical attempt by big store owners to remove online competition for regularly used blades items, giving them a monopoly on blades and blades items.

once all the relevant exemptions are in place, we would argue that there is no reason to keep section 15, and it should be removed, as it has already been amended to allow the supply of the most dangerous looking knives to residential addresses if the buyer claims to be using them for sports, or combat sports!

 

[Max_b]

For your information, I have an appointment with my MP this afternoon to show how this bill will impact our DIY supply business to the tune of many thousands of pounds a year, by inconveniencing our retail customers and forcing them to use our bricks n mortar competitors, whilst doing zero to prevent the supply of dangerous sports and combat knives because these have already been given an exemption  allowing them to be supplied to residential addresses!

as far as we can see, section 15 if the bill has been deliberately written to transfer online business and customers to the major retailers Wickes, B&Q, Tesco, hobbycraft, B&M etc.

[MyGeekyPersona]

This does seem like a poorly written piece of legislation at best, or a big business “protectionist” one at worst. 

 

Please let us know how the meeting with your MP went. 

 

Do do you know if GW, or any of the other online hobby retailers have made a statement on this matter? I tend to buy most of my DIY / hobby materials online as I’ve a busy life and live in a rural county, plus I like to save money for the expensive plastic toys!

 

MGP

[Max_b]

Meeting went well, she’s going to take up these issues on our behalf, and discussed a number of ways of proceeding. She’s going to do some, or all of them. She seemed convinced. I do recommend that people get in touch with their MP’s to push this matter.

Its ridiculous that this legislation will prevent delivery of a craft knife to a residential property, but allow delivery of a samurai sword to the very same address... simply because sports and combat weapon buyers have already been given an exemption, where as DIY/crafts/culinary buyers have not.

I hope saner minds prevail as the bill moves through the legislature. My hope is that clauses 15, 16, 17 are simply dropped. As the really dangerous weapons, like combat knives, kendo and Samurai swords, axes, throwing knives, handmade, and modified knives have already been exempted from section 15. There is really no point in keeping section 15.