daedalus81 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 So there is the new Ironguard battalion that could be interesting from the all gates book. No points for it yet, but it decent. It's a sorcerer lord of tzeentch, 2-3 units of tzeentch warriors, and 1-2 units of tzeentch knights. The only bonus it gives is a free run to the warriors (D6) and knights (2D6) in the hero phase. It bills itself as getting your heavy troops in the face of the enemy and them summoning in behind them. Seem like it could be alright. Grab an extra sorcerer and summon in flamers, chariots, and screamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 It's very good. My friend Rob at South London Legion recommended it. Especially since you can move the Knights out of combat to 3 inches away, then charge again to trigger the buff on the lances. For the Warriors you can pull them out of an awkward fight and they can then charge someone else. There's also no restriction on being 3 inches away from someone, so you can surround an enemy hero who thinks he's safe behind another unit if you can fit the models in. The big issue is that we have no idea if it will ever get points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 24 minutes ago, Nico said: It's very good. My friend Rob at South London Legion recommended it. Especially since you can move the Knights out of combat to 3 inches away, then charge again to trigger the buff on the lances. For the Warriors you can pull them out of an awkward fight and they can then charge someone else. There's also no restriction on being 3 inches away from someone, so you can surround an enemy hero who thinks he's safe behind another unit if you can fit the models in. The big issue is that we have no idea if it will ever get points. Oh that's brilliant. I imagine it will. The rules are not obscene. I guess we'll find out on the 23rd if the app gets an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 The theory would be that because it's a campaign formation, it's more intended for narrative play (just as the Brotherhood of the Great Bolts is more intended for 40k), but we'll see. I'll stay hopeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 5 hours ago, Nico said: It's very good. My friend Rob at South London Legion recommended it. Especially since you can move the Knights out of combat to 3 inches away, then charge again to trigger the buff on the lances. For the Warriors you can pull them out of an awkward fight and they can then charge someone else. There's also no restriction on being 3 inches away from someone, so you can surround an enemy hero who thinks he's safe behind another unit if you can fit the models in. The big issue is that we have no idea if it will ever get points. Usually you can't leave combat unless you retreat. Does the wording override that or allow you to still charge if you retreated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 It's a teleport in the hero phase so you can leave combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Nico said: It's a teleport in the hero phase so you can leave combat. Neat. That sounds like it addresses my question quite cleanly then. Sounds awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrAiKo Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 11 hours ago, Changer said: That's an interesting concept. I had assumed that you would pay for Pink Horrors and when they died you'd get Blue Horrors for free. Then in turn you'd get Brimstone Horrors for free when the Blue Horrors died. I suppose we'll find out on Saturday, or whenever we get points etc... for Tzeentch. Until there is an update, the way things read now is: Pay for pink horrors as normal. If you want to create a new unit of blue horrors they must be payed for (as for summoning etc) If you want to create a new unit of brimstone horrors they must be payed for. Of course there are no points for the new ST minis yet. The other issue comes with how many do you pay for? Technically speaking, as it stands you only need to pay for the number of blue/brimstone minis that you put down initially to create the unit. While that unit survives, any additional horrors are added to the unit and wouldn't need to be payed for. Clearly this needs a FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Hopefully the points for blue and brimstone are by the single model - otherwise the rule will become cumbersome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 As a brand new player who is still just getting his initial models painted the more I read about matched play the more I find myself wanting to use it as a rough guideline to constructing a sensible force and simply going with open play after that. Rules of one sound neat but for the magic letting fatesworn use their arcane bolts per formation rules in excess of the rules of one sounds like the right thing to do if my gaming partner wants to use filthy wizards instead of honest axes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 43 minutes ago, TrexPushups said: As a brand new player who is still just getting his initial models painted the more I read about matched play the more I find myself wanting to use it as a rough guideline to constructing a sensible force and simply going with open play after that. Rules of one sound neat but for the magic letting fatesworn use their arcane bolts per formation rules in excess of the rules of one sounds like the right thing to do if my gaming partner wants to use filthy wizards instead of honest axes. Doing so would break the game quite easily. Treemen with easy, unfailable 1+ armor saves? Ehh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 2 hours ago, daedalus81 said: Doing so would break the game quite easily. Treemen with easy, unfailable 1+ armor saves? Ehh... Oh the always fail on a roll of one has to stay in my mind. Behemoths not getting cover should stay too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Quote Behemoths not getting cover should stay too. This is yet another stealth buff to Stormcast - oh you've deployed Arkhan the Black, oh my Judicators have flown down and shot him off the board turn one because you cannot get a cover buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 5 hours ago, Nico said: This is yet another stealth buff to Stormcast - oh you've deployed Arkhan the Black, oh my Judicators have flown down and shot him off the board turn one because you cannot get a cover buff. Did you mean prosecutors? You'd need 15 of those in range - more if they weren't all separate units. Or 25 judicators. But I presume you mean the Harbinger Chamber. So 140 + 80 + 80 + 80 + 100 for all the battalions; 480 total . 340 per vanguard wing - 1,020 total. The celestant, relictor, and two more cheaper heroes comes to 320. So you've got 180 points to spare. You would already have spent 140 points more than Arkhan is worth just in battalions. And all you have to do is place a unit 9" in front of Akrhan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 No - I meant the Skyborne Slayers - flying in with at least 10 Judicators - this should be enough to cripple the hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Nico said: No - I meant the Skyborne Slayers - flying in with at least 10 Judicators - this should be enough to cripple the hero. Ehh. I'm not feeling it. If I saw this coming Arkhan would be deployed in the back edge and Morghast Harbinger's as far forward in deployment as possible. Anything cabaple of hitting Arkhan would be in danger of being charged immediately thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 More of a nerf to the stormcast dragon it means you can't have a 2+ re-rollable save that throws out mortal wounds when the re-roll is successful simply by being in cover. You have to at least use a special ability or spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 True enough - but there's one monster for Stormcast which you're not going to get far trying to shoot (without cannons). Chaos and Death have to put up with 4+ and 5+ save embarrassments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 We'll get some more toys, i'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamierk Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I just wish they'd used the silver tower as a chance to release a new plastic lord of change or Kairos type. They have some great tzeench characters in the new stories. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changer Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 7 hours ago, jamierk said: I just wish they'd used the silver tower as a chance to release a new plastic lord of change or Kairos type. They have some great tzeench characters in the new stories. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I'm sure we'll see them soon enough. Once the summer campaign is over in the realm of life, they can start to focus on the realm of metal with the Dwarfs and (eventually) new Tzeentch stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Tzeentch and dwarfs are both on metal? Excellent...I've got some stunties to kill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Pike Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 As a massive fan of Tzeentch, primarily Kairos I'm very disappointed in the state of using Tzeentch competitively at all at the moment with the introduction of the Generals Handbook. Rule of One kills mono Tzeentch Flamers are way over costed. 5 Judicators is 180pts for 10 wounds of shooting with rend and a 4+save, flamers are 200pts for 6 wounds, no rend and a 5+save... embarrassing Horrors are now an awful battleline tax due to said Rule of One, also currently over costed Kairos can no longer duplicate spells from other wizards to multi-cast, one of his strongest reasons for taking him Currently the only things in my opinion from the Tzeentch range (without marking warriors etc as Tzeentch) which are even worth considering are the Changeling, Kairos and the Lord of Change. Blue Scribes are a bit of an outside pick now with the loss of duplicate spells. The Curseling is a decent pick from the Warriors side of things. As a whole though the Tzeentch stuff is very fragile, very expensive and with the loss of duplicate casting suffers with trying to kill anything with a good armour save, which leaves them in a bad place for the time being Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I cannot believe Flamers are that much. Judicators as Battleline for any Order army is just so unfair. Quote The Curseling is a decent pick from the Warriors side of things. This guy has been such a disappointment. If his "learn" spell had a massive range, then that could be interesting. He doesn't have a buff to unbinding rolls, so it's very rare that he actually gets to unbind and cast an enemy spell. One tiny upside is that the Silver Tower Gaunt Summoner is grossly undercosted at 120 for a 2 spell wizard with 9 wounds. Apparently his spell isn't half bad either. Generally speaking Tzeentch are just terrible now. They have weak combat units and weak verging on non-existent combat synergies (the Disklord buff is useless 50% of the time). The Fatesworn Warband has also been nerfed with the extra arcane bolts gone - at least it's cheaper than under SCGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Horrors are truly a tax in their current form. I'll be running a mono-Tzeentch next time we play. From reading the GH I'm struggling to see where they can hit hard. Flamers are very fragile and 200pts for three of them is a lot. Any bonus would have been a help - say one unit of Screamers or Flamers can be battleline if you're mono-Tzeentch; anything at this point. The LoC having two spells doesn't mean much in the early rounds. With 2-4 units of Horrors the core spells will be used there. Guess it is make do until the Tzeentch Acolyte book drops (and then daemons might not be in that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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