The Church of Contagion: My dip in the Pestilens Pool ( I WIN!!!! 11/26))

[Axter]

I talked with all the player of my group, we all agree that if you give liber bubonicus to a furnace it will have the prayers of the plague priest, and it will be able to pray twice per turn, one noxian prayer and one pestilent prayer, that thanks to the first part of the book. The second one did non affect the furnace, the furnace is not a plague priest. It have the plague priest keyword but that's do not mean it is a plague priest. If you want the faq, we already have. If a name is written in bold it refers to the keyword of the model, if not it refers to the name of the model. That's the rule. In liber bubonicus is not written in bold, so even if rhe furnace have the plague priest warscroll it won't work. This is not an opinion, this is a rule.

[Mayple]

31 minutes ago, Axter said:

I talked with all the player of my group, we all agree that if you give liber bubonicus to a furnace it will have the prayers of the plague priest, and it will be able to pray twice per turn, one noxian prayer and one pestilent prayer, that thanks to the first part of the book. The second one did non affect the furnace, the furnace is not a plague priest. It have the plague priest keyword but that's do not mean it is a plague priest. If you want the faq, we already have. If a name is written in bold it refers to the keyword of the model, if not it refers to the name of the model. That's the rule. In liber bubonicus is not written in bold, so even if rhe furnace have the plague priest warscroll it won't work. This is not an opinion, this is a rule.

But if we go by the rule, 'Plague Priest' as a name does not exist. Therefore no one can get the extra prayer for being a 'plague priest' at all. This is why there is a confusion. The keyword is the only 'plague priest' that exists

[Cerve]

4 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Hey, at least we got you off the bit where the Plague Furnace isn't a Plague Priest. That's progress! Or, to make it even easier to understand....progress

 

I was talking about keywords since the beginning, I just struggle a bit with english :C

[Mayple]

4 minutes ago, Cerve said:

I was talking about keywords since the beginning, I just struggle a bit with english :C

Don't worry about it we're all friendly seekers of the truth here. Misunderstandings happen

[Naflem]

3 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Hey, at least we got you off the bit where the Plague Furnace isn't a Plague Priest. That's progress! Or, to make it even easier to understand....progress

 

 

7 hours ago, Cerve said:

 

Nope is not... take the upside artifact for example, the Living Cyst. In there, PESTILENS HEROES is a keyword, writed in in black. In the same page, in the same block of rules...

 

Keywords are always in black. Names are not. in the "Living Cyst", PESTILENS HEROES are keywords. In "Liber Bubonicus", Plague Priest is the name of the model. 


So no, is not working on the Plague Furnace right now. After an Errata, maybe...but now, you're wrong mate. Sorry.

Ohh, I was going with HorseOnABeachball, but now that I'm looking at the Living Cyst, I see they are using "keyword bold" for artifacts as well.  So, its like the old Verminus Claw pack battalion where everyone though anyone with the Skaven Warlord(Skaven Warlord on Brood Horror, the old named Skaven Warlords like Queek) could fill in the battalion because they've got the keyword, but then GW told us no, if it says Skaven Warlord it means it can be anyone with the keywords Skaven l but if it just says Skaven General (non-bold) it only means "the model named Skaven Warlord".  I think that is from the general rules FAQ.  It's in a section specifically on battalions, and I suppose there's an argument to be made that its only a rule for battalions..... but if they're using "keyword bold" in other artifacts, I'd think that's its probably only a matter of time before that FAQ gets changed to clearly be more general use of bold vs normal font is all context..

[Naflem]

3 hours ago, Mayple said:

But if we go by the rule, 'Plague Priest' as a name does not exist. Therefore no one can get the extra prayer for being a 'plague priest' at all. This is why there is a confusion. The keyword is the only 'plague priest' that exists

Wait that's a good point.  If "Skaven Warlord" in non-bold font doesn't include "Skaven Warlord on Brood Horror" then Plague Priest would not include "Plague Priest with Warpstone Staff" or "Plague Priest with Plague Censure" or whatever their name is, so if we insist on keyword bold for artifacts then whole rule has no effect....... 

 

Never mind my post from like 73 seconds ago, I'm with you now.  lol   

[Naflem]

4 hours ago, Axter said:

I talked with all the player of my group, we all agree that if you give liber bubonicus to a furnace it will have the prayers of the plague priest, and it will be able to pray twice per turn, one noxian prayer and one pestilent prayer, that thanks to the first part of the book. The second one did non affect the furnace, the furnace is not a plague priest. It have the plague priest keyword but that's do not mean it is a plague priest. If you want the faq, we already have. If a name is written in bold it refers to the keyword of the model, if not it refers to the name of the model. That's the rule. In liber bubonicus is not written in bold, so even if rhe furnace have the plague priest warscroll it won't work. This is not an opinion, this is a rule.

Yeah, so technically the FAQ just says "When a name appears in bold in a warscroll battalion...."  

 

This isn't a war scroll battalion.  

[HorseOnABeachBall]

4 hours ago, Axter said:

I talked with all the player of my group, we all agree that if you give liber bubonicus to a furnace it will have the prayers of the plague priest, and it will be able to pray twice per turn, one noxian prayer and one pestilent prayer, that thanks to the first part of the book. The second one did non affect the furnace, the furnace is not a plague priest. It have the plague priest keyword but that's do not mean it is a plague priest. If you want the faq, we already have. If a name is written in bold it refers to the keyword of the model, if not it refers to the name of the model. That's the rule. In liber bubonicus is not written in bold, so even if rhe furnace have the plague priest warscroll it won't work. This is not an opinion, this is a rule.

 

Im pretty sure you guys are just trolling at this point. Every response is off a word or two, leading to wrong answers.

The worst part is when you go down the "It's in the FAQ" rabbit hole. Although you probably meant it to be the end all be all, you didn't actually quote the FAQ.

 

[HorseOnABeachBall]

3 hours ago, Cerve said:

I was talking about keywords since the beginning, I just struggle a bit with english :C

Yeah, I know. I'm not teasing you guys about the English. Just razzing you about the keywords/ silly examples  i.e. rhino is not a space marine ...

[stratigo]

There are no space marines. Space marines aren't a key word.

 

A rhino does however have the adaptus astartes keyword key word. Look it up. Any ability that affect adaptus astartes affect it.

 

Trying to rules lawyer out a player from being able to use an ability on literally any of his units because it doesn't specifically say plague priest in an actual means you're a ****** and people probably shouldn't play you.

[tolstedt]

My reading is that the artifact let's the plague furnace make a pestilent prayer once.

Taking it on an actual priest lets you do the prayer twice because the actual priest already has those prayers on the warscroll.

Taking it on the plague furnace just gives him the abilities.

You can of course still cast one of the other two prayers that come on the plague furnace already, giving you two prayers all day, not three.

[HorseOnABeachBall]

1 hour ago, tolstedt said:

My reading is that the artifact let's the plague furnace make a pestilent prayer once.

Taking it on an actual priest lets you do the prayer twice because the actual priest already has those prayers on the warscroll.

Taking it on the plague furnace just gives him the abilities.

You can of course still cast one of the other two prayers that come on the plague furnace already, giving you two prayers all day, not three.

The Furnace is an "actual priest", or better yet , the Furnace is a Plague Priest. 

 Taking it on an actual priest (ahem , Plague Priest) lets him pray x2 off of pestilent prayers . The only reason he can do that is not because he already has it on his scroll , but because the liber bubonicus is allowing it.

[Naflem]

17 hours ago, stratigo said:

Trying to rules lawyer out a player from being able to use an ability on literally any of his units because it doesn't specifically say plague priest in an actual means you're a ****** and people probably shouldn't play you.

I'm not saying I would try to prevent someone from using it on any of his units, I'm saying that we should interpret the rules in order to avoid unreasonable results.  Here, if we interpret the artifact to key off models named "Plague Priest" and not models with the keyword "Plague Priest" then we get an unreasonable result, because there are no models just named "Plague Priest"  so it is a rule that wouldn't apply anywhere.  But if we use the keyword interpretation then we get a more reasonable result, as 3 units can use it then (even though that includes one unit where the intention is a little bit wonky). 

[Mayple]

55 minutes ago, Naflem said:

I'm not saying I would try to prevent someone from using it on any of his units, I'm saying that we should interpret the rules in order to avoid unreasonable results.  Here, if we interpret the artifact to key off models named "Plague Priest" and not models with the keyword "Plague Priest" then we get an unreasonable result, because there are no models just named "Plague Priest"  so it is a rule that wouldn't apply anywhere.  But if we use the keyword interpretation then we get a more reasonable result, as 3 units can use it then (even though that includes one unit where the intention is a little bit wonky). 

My thoughts exactly.

[Axter]

That's a wrong thought. The name still contain plague priest. If the furnace name was "plague priest on plague furnace" then liber bubonicus give it double pestilent prayers, but is not.

[Mayple]

17 minutes ago, Axter said:

That's a wrong thought. The name still contain plague priest. If the furnace name was "plague priest on plague furnace" then liber bubonicus give it double pestilent prayers, but is not.

You seem rather certain. Certainty does not equal right, therefore: Do you have any examples of other heroes who's name are not the same as what is required of them by artifacts and/or other abilities, where they'd still get the benefit? That would point towards 'Plague priest with..' being the only user of liber bubonicus. 

In the absence of that, and since we can assume that it is not intended that no one can use it, it appears we will have to go by keyword.

[Cerve]

On 6/11/2017 at 4:15 AM, stratigo said:

There are no space marines. Space marines aren't a key word.

 

A rhino does however have the adaptus astartes keyword key word. Look it up. Any ability that affect adaptus astartes affect it.

 

Trying to rules lawyer out a player from being able to use an ability on literally any of his units because it doesn't specifically say plague priest in an actual means you're a ****** and people probably shouldn't play you.

Lol, so following the rules actually will makes you a bad person.

Who is the one who will not play with who?

 

I like how some people still avoid my question: why, in the same page, in the same pack of rules (artifacts), in one artifact specifically refer to a KEYWORD and the next one refers to the model's "Name"? Why people still ignoring that EVERYWHERE in the game the keywords are always, always, writed in BLACK, but in the Liber Bubonicus "no! "if the MODEL is a Plague Priest" should-be-a-keyword-too, it doesn't matter if in-this-single-rule it's not writed in black"...

...seriously, need you guys to judge your opponents because your beloved model of the Plague Furnace has a warscroll, where the model of Plague Priest has his PERSONAL warscroll? 

[Mayple]

6 hours ago, Cerve said:

Lol, so following the rules actually will makes you a bad person.

Who is the one who will not play with who?

 

I like how some people still avoid my question: why, in the same page, in the same pack of rules (artifacts), in one artifact specifically refer to a KEYWORD and the next one refers to the model's "Name"? Why people still ignoring that EVERYWHERE in the game the keywords are always, always, writed in BLACK, but in the Liber Bubonicus "no! "if the MODEL is a Plague Priest" should-be-a-keyword-too, it doesn't matter if in-this-single-rule it's not writed in black"...

...seriously, need you guys to judge your opponents because your beloved model of the Plague Furnace has a warscroll, where the model of Plague Priest has his PERSONAL warscroll? 

As has been stated several times, the problem is that the name 'Plague priest' does not exist. So going hard black&white on RAW becomes a problem, which is why there's a confusion. 

But I suggest we stop cluttering up this thread with circular arguments. Time to take it to the rules section, or silence the issue momentarily. Either way, this thread has been bombarded enough unless OP feels differently.

[tolstedt]

Going from 0 pestilent prayers to 2 pestilent prayers does not seem to be the intent of the artifact.

If you don't have pestilent prayers on your scroll, now you get to cast one pestilent prayer. 
If you already have pestilent prayers on your scroll, now you get to cast two of them.

[Naflem]

12 hours ago, Axter said:

That's a wrong thought. The name still contain plague priest. If the furnace name was "plague priest on plague furnace" then liber bubonicus give it double pestilent prayers, but is not.

AFAIK, some of the GW folks used the example of "Skaven Warlord on Brood Horror" not being a "Skaven Warlord" for purposes of the named-not-keyworded Skaven Warlord in the verminous battalion when all that battalion stuff was being sorted out, so from that experience, I don't think we can say that a "Plague Priest with...." or "Plague Priest on...." is the same thing on a warscroll name basis as a "Plague Priest" without any other verbage.   

[Naflem]

1 hour ago, tolstedt said:

Going from 0 pestilent prayers to 2 pestilent prayers does not seem to be the intent of the artifact.

If you don't have pestilent prayers on your scroll, now you get to cast one pestilent prayer. 
If you already have pestilent prayers on your scroll, now you get to cast two of them.

I suspect that probably was what they anticipated it doing, but that's not what they wrote.  

[Cerve]

12 hours ago, Mayple said:

As has been stated several times, the problem is that the name 'Plague priest' does not exist. So going hard black&white on RAW becomes a problem, which is why there's a confusion. 

But I suggest we stop cluttering up this thread with circular arguments. Time to take it to the rules section, or silence the issue momentarily. Either way, this thread has been bombarded enough unless OP feels differently.

There are actually 2 different Plague Priests. And yes, they are both Plague Priests. 

 

Don't try to tell me that the name of the weapon in their ws name prevent them to actually being Plague Priests...

 

 

Yes we can over it here. 

[HorseOnABeachBall]

5 minutes ago, Cerve said:

There are actually 2 different Plague Priests. And yes, they are both Plague Priests. 

 

Don't try to tell me that the name of the weapon in their ws name prevent them to actually being Plague Priests...

 

 

Yes we can over it here. 

You're forgetting about the one on the plague furnace. 

 

Dont try to tell me that despite being called Plague Priests in their fluff, and having Plague Priests as a keyword it's not an actual Plague Priest..

 

See what I did there?

 

[HorseOnABeachBall]

11 hours ago, tolstedt said:

Going from 0 pestilent prayers to 2 pestilent prayers does not seem to be the intent of the artifact.

If you don't have pestilent prayers on your scroll, now you get to cast one pestilent prayer. 
If you already have pestilent prayers on your scroll, now you get to cast two of them.

You can't divine intent. 

You also got your second statement completely wrong. That might be what's going on here, a lot of you guys are arguing from bad info. Garbage in, garbage out.

" This model can use the Pestilent Prayers ability from the Plague Priest's warscroll. If this model is a Plague Priest, then it can use the Pestilent Prayers twice in each of your hero phases."

Its not asking you whether you already have Pestilent Prayers or not, is simply asks...." Are you a Plague Priest?"

[Cerve]

14 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

You're forgetting about the one on the plague furnace. 

 

Dont try to tell me that despite being called Plague Priests in their fluff, and having Plague Priests as a keyword it's not an actual Plague Priest..

 

See what I did there?

 

I'm not trying, I'm actually doing it. Rules never take in consideration "the fluff"...

Listen, belive what you want, but there's nothing in rules that is supporting your theory. But we have a sea between us, we will never play together, and even if so I don't think we'll play a mirror match.

So just talk with your opponent if he will allow you to do this hr. I, for me, will play considering that any keyword in this game is always in black (and yes, it IS a rule), and that "if the model is a Plague Priest" is no. So no, this rule is considering the warscrolls which the name is "Plague Priest". Precisely as any khorne priest, etc.

Another example? "Lethal Coordination" of the Darkling Coven Allegiance. There is "Dreadspears" word, "Darkswords" word etc which NONE of them are in black. Because these are Warscrolls, models. Not Keywords.

 

You can find a lot of examples...a keyword is always, always, always written in black. No matter the fluff, nor your will, nothing. Always-in-black.

Is it not? Then it's a proper name, a warscroll name, a model name. Precisely as the Liber Bubonicus talks about models of Plague Priests. Ignore this point is like broking the rules in my opinion.

 

But who I am to attepst that? So who cares, going on, I'm out..