state of the beastmen

[Kosmion]

yes im talking war and brayherds: anyone have any xperience playing them? are they good or even competetive? if so- in what way? how do they play, strengths/weaknesses etc.

thanks!

[TheEverchosen]

For now its best to wait for their new allegiance abilities

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[Tzaangor Management]

From what I've seen they're fast and fairly cheap, but die in droves due to low saves and a lot of one wound models. As above, allegiance abilities should make them stronger.

If you've not seen it already, this might be a good place to start:

 

[bonzai]

A friend at our local shop plays Brayherd and they are always a joy to play against. A few observations. 

1. They die in droves. Always take crown of command to minimize battle shock.

2. They tend to win by playing to objectives. With their great movement and cheap throw away units, they can win on points even when the bulk of the army is slain.

3. The chariots are amazing tarpits. Probably the most survivable unit you have. Once they are bogged down, support them with Raiders or something to help them push through.

4. The faction on its own tends to lack a big punch. My friend dips into a unit of Bulgors to help out. A gorgon, gargant, or chaos beast can help a lot.

5. The shaman have the unique  ability to summon chaos beasts. The problem? You need a 9 for it to go off. Ways to mitigate that are the vortex (+1), Chaos familiars (+1 bubble), and Sayl who can let you roll 3d6 to cast. A 7 on 3 dice is much more manageable. Summon a chaos dragon or wyrven turn 1 in their grill and snipe characters. Then back it up with Breyherd movement and Sayl slingshoting another hammer unit and you have some real turn 1 pressure.

As for warherd, bullgors and ghorgon are solid hard hitting units. The problem is that they are one dimensional. They seem to work better mixed in to other forces like Breyherd, but I have seen them played on their own. Allies will greatly benefit them.

Hope that helps!

 

 

[Johann]

right now you need Gorthor with his +1hit bubble, then at least 30 Ungor Raiders (pew pew), Shaman (+3 movement) und many Gors und some Ungors for blocking charges. Most of it will die

And as bonzai already said: you have to play to the objectives, you are fast and you have the bodies. In my first games i tried to kill the enemy - was a bad idea - since i´m playing just for the objectives, i win a good amount of games (~50%). But my opponents are mostly easy going without broken combinations.

I´m really looking forward to the alliance abilities, i guess it will be some ambush tactics (or to obvious?).

 

 

[Popisdead]

The Special characters add to the army.

Gorthor and his +1  bubble makes 30 Raiders pretty deadly.

Morghur on a Magethrone is good.

Malagor has a good snipe spell

Khazrak adds to chariots nicely.

Ghorros makes Centigors (who are really cheap and really fast) better (granted,.. they aren't amazing to begin with).

The BSB is also only 80 points and a good boost.

With the idea that hordes get cheaper you'll really be able to blanket the table.  I had a huge army from 8th ed and I'm looking forward to them being more obnoxious.  Table control with them is key.

4-6 Chariots with Mystic Shield is hard to shift.  Mystic Shield on Bestigors is pretty good too.

I've been experimenting with 10 Gors and 10 Ungors with spears behind them camping objectives.  Mostly cause it's how they played as Beasts of Chaos in 6th edition.  You can't get both charging but both can fight if charged.  

Keep in mind how fast the army moves.  +1 on pile ins and can run and charge.

 

Jabbers' are your can opener.  Just let someone die attacking them.  at 2000 points 2 aren't a bad choice.

[cranect]

I don't have as much experience with brayherds but the above advice seems sound. As for the warherds my typical list has 15-18 bullgors with great weapons, 2 doombulls, 30 gors, a ghorgon and skarbrand. The gors screen and grab objectives. The rest run forward turn one. Turn two they make their long charges with that +1 inch for every enemy unit within 12. I have actually gotten 24 inch charges before and just bypassed peoples screen to hit the juicy heroes behind them. The ghorgon normally just eats enemy fire but god help them when they don't. He has single handedly finished off armies for me. He killed 15 brutes in one turn and another time he ran through durthu and a treelord ancient due to a double turn. The general doombull hangs back a little in the center of the field so that he can buff everyone. Skarbrand is there to handle things like stonehorns and morngouls

[Popisdead]

21 hours ago, cranect said:

As for the warherds my typical list has 15-18 bullgors with great weapons, 2 doombulls, 30 gors, a ghorgon and skarbrand. The gors screen and grab objectives. The rest run forward turn one. Turn two they make their long charges with that +1 inch for every enemy unit within 12. I have actually gotten 24 inch charges before and just bypassed peoples screen to hit the juicy heroes behind them. The ghorgon normally just eats enemy fire but god help them when they don't. He has single handedly finished off armies for me. He killed 15 brutes in one turn and another time he ran through durthu and a treelord ancient due to a double turn. The general doombull hangs back a little in the center of the field so that he can buff everyone. Skarbrand is there to handle things like stonehorns and morngouls

Solid advice.  I quite like Warherds over Brayherds cause I struggle with the table-control game more than the Beat your face off game   Is Skarbrand working out for you?  Interesting inclusion.  

People hate Ghorgons but mine have demolished a unit of Skeletons before.  Guess they are inconsistent.  

[cranect]

I included skarbrand after reading the godbeasts book and his influence there. That and I just liked skarbrand and his story. Its really worked well though. I also really like the ghorgon.

[cranect]

I even like the cygor against wizards. He has yet to fail to kill in one throw.

[Screwface]

On 7/30/2017 at 1:18 AM, bonzai said:

Sayl who can let you roll 3d6 to cast. A 7 on 3 dice is much more manageable. Summon a chaos dragon or wyrven turn 1 in their grill and snipe characters.

 

 

Sayl's 3 dice ability can be used by another wizard in the same army?! 

[bonzai]

10 hours ago, Screwface said:

Sayl's 3 dice ability can be used by another wizard in the same army?! 

It says you can can use it once per game when casting or unbinding a spell. It doesn't specify Sayl has to be the one casting or unbinding.

[Screwface]

1 hour ago, bonzai said:

It says you can can use it once per game when casting or unbinding a spell. It doesn't specify Sayl has to be the one casting or unbinding.

RAW FTW I guess.

[Rover1875]

Really looking forward to what allegiance abilities they get

I have a small Warherd force (around 1k), hits damn hard but need to get into close combat asap otherwise they can die quick

Use my ghorgon to just draw all enemy fire while charging in with the bullgors

Definitely looking to add some Brayherd as it would add alot more dynamics

plus actually having a spellcaster is always a plus

[Popisdead]

On 8/11/2017 at 9:54 AM, cranect said:

I even like the cygor against wizards. He has yet to fail to kill in one throw.

Same.  Mine just dies.  Not much else.  I think a pair could be better but still,. just,. not cutting it for 200 pts.

[cranect]

3 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Same.  Mine just dies.  Not much else.  I think a pair could be better but still,. just,. not cutting it for 200 pts.

Sadly I agree he isn't normally worth 200 points. I used to summon him for free and he would one shot enemy wizards every time. He would even normally get summoned turn 1. When there aren't enemy wizards he rarely even does any damage. He never hits with the throw and he rarely hits well in melee. Against wizards he's great. Against everything else not so much.

[Popisdead]

I never thought about summoning.  The problem is the disparity between him and say, a Jabber which is a huge variation in effectiveness.

[Popisdead]

let's just say after the leaks the state of beastmen is more exciting for me

[Johann]

I'm a little bit bumped... but have to try it on the battlefield 

My first thoughts were (posted a short version in the rumor Thread):

I expected more from the Ambush, I find it difficult to use the Trait to get in the edges of my opponents deployment zone... it is too easy to denial. The opponent just have to place a Model ~10" away from his two edges and then you can only Ambush in your own zone (in the first round...) - then it's better to deploy normal and get the awesome movement we have instead of nothing. The Command trait for Ambush in the second turn plus the +1 to Hit for Ambush seems worth trying. In general I would have preferred a more flexibel approach and get an Ambush  from all sides of the battlefield (9" away from enemy).

How is everybody planning on using the ambush? Just small units for getting Objectives and annoy the enemy or trying to put "half the army" in ambush?

Or did i overlook something? 

 

The Herdstone is definitely a nice idea, but more useful for a static approach and not for fast forward movement.

Pointwise it seems fine:

- Gors/Ungors were always good for the points, the bonus for massive regiments is a nice topping

- Raiders seems to be in line with most shooting units in GH2

- in my opinion Bestigors should have been directly 120 points without massive regiments rules - they are the "elite" Brayherd and should be less bodies then gors, but not such a big issue.

- With GH1 I found the beastlord too expensive with his weird generals ability (Gorthor was just better ?), but with all the artifacts now I will try him and leave compendium behind.

- nice drop for the shaman, still the real hero for the Brayherd ?

[PAR]

really excited by all the ghb2 beast stuff looking like loads of new stuff to try out 

herdstone is really nice touch

the axe is a must take just for giggles 

[Swamp_Toe]

from the look of things the beastmen and relegated to an ally roll as primary. The can ally with most chaos but as an army (primary) the ca only ally with old stuff (ie. warherds, dragon ogres, giants) So were does that leave us....

-running hordes, with a couple units of elites or just use as allies for the other factions as pincushions, or ambush

 

Ambush I see being great against CC armies. Give them turn one to allow them to advance and fill in behind to get that objective, secrator, or bolt thrower. The turn 2 ambush artifact is interesting allowing you to do the same thing as before, or keep your units off the board to deny ranged armies targets and give you a chance to play for the double turn. Otherwise use the horde as a pincushion for there arrows buying time for th elites from ANOTHER army to do the work.

I'm thinking of running war herds primary to get my doombull,  3-4 units of bullgors with GA and 4 ghorgons  with a horde of gors with shaman as an ally.  If only we could have marks of chaos again.... but that would be too OP for stormcast/sylvaneth to handle

[James Ramsay]

How does the shaman summon monster spell work? Can you summon any chaos monster? Its not bolded..so is it a keyword thing or not?

Herdstone vs balewind vortex. Can you be in range of arcane buff from it and be on the vortex? Do you measure the height of the stone or not? 

 

 

[Sennyo]

the shaman spell lets you summon and Monster with the Chaos and Monster keyword, this include the likes of the jabbeslythe, the gargant, the glottking, etc. they do cost point like all summons in matchplay and sadly ive yet to see someone summon Archaon with the shaman

[Nubgan]

The new community article makes them sound pretty damned decent tbh and clarifies a lot of the stuff brought up recently:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/22/rhuairidhs-brayherds/

 

[Johann]

So Brayherd got slammed today on twitch... just heard it and have no details:

someone has more Infos about the lists and other new stuff?