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Gwendar

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  1. Gwendar
    I think they'll show up more often, but I'm still not certain on their competitive usefulness. 500 points (because I consider the Clawlord essential to elevate them above Monks) for a unit of 40 is hard to swallow, although there's plenty of us that run 630+ points worth of a unit + hero with Fiends so I guess it isn't that much different. They definitely won't make matchups against the current meta bullies anymore even since they'll blow them off the table before they can touch anything. Against everything else? Yeah they'll delete them, but generally 40 Monks will too. I've been inclined to try them by doing 2x20\1x40+1x20 Clanrats and 1x40 SV as battleine.. but when I can pay 560 points for 80 Monks that will do around the same damage it's hard to make that choice. So, my ranting aside... yeah, they're great, but I still think they need to be around 360 for 40, barring a warscroll rewrite to justify their current cost. Well, in my statement above this it would fit pretty perfectly. Matching a Clawlord\"Clawlord on your Mom" works best with Stormvermin present to give them +1 attack. Just a slight more resilient and mobile Clawlord is all it boils down to.
  2. Gwendar
    @Num change all those within\wholly within ranges of 12" to 13" and we have ourselves a deal 😉
  3. Gwendar
    I dunno.. It's still one of those things that is great when it works, but when it does 3-4 MW's across 2 phases it feels horrible. It really wants to be cast right on top of a bunch of squishy heroes, but now KO is better at doing that than we are 🙄. I'll take it now and then, but overall I'd rather have another 20 Clanrats most of the time. The issue is that it left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.. Tom and Vince on WW are also quite vocal about how horrible it still is when it's literally never taken by Skaven armies anymore and always by KO that run Spell in a Bottle or whatever. I find that it's no worse than Teclis + Spell portal or the SC Comet just to name a couple things. He is right though, with the reduced range you're probably getting it out on T2\3 when your own stuff is just as likely to be in range of getting hit by it as the enemy.. and again, with the swingy damage it won't always be something that someone will stay away from if it means they can snag an objective from you real quick.
  4. Gwendar
    True, but again I'm thinking more about those 3 out of 5 games where I don't play against Seraphon, Tzeentch or Lumineth, which is what I think you're aiming to do; hell if I get top 10 in a 30-60 player event I'm content. In those games against magically inferior armies, you've got a near guaranteed chance of it not getting unbound and even against those armies with Thanquol you can be okay, especially if you make sure you're out of unbind (which I know can be hard if they go first and get closer, but usually we're forced to go first due to our high drop count and Tzeentch\Seraphon\Lumineth generally playing low drops). It's definitely not a requirement anymore like it was with the whole 9-Fiends-across-the-bridge-alpha-strike lists, but it still works well a lot of the time as a utility piece. This is true, although with proper pre-measuring of the opponents threat range I generally haven't had issues in that regard. At most I'll get alpha'd from them getting a double turn, but then I have the chance at getting one myself and all\most of their heavy hitters are now right in front of my Monks and Fiends that sat behind those 60-100 Clanrats.. even if they get BS'd off at this point, I generally have enough stuff to clear the board and cap objectives for 3 turns 😉 I get your points with all of the above, I just want to give some alternate views. AoS really boils down to deployment and objective control, so bodies and 3 threats minimum works best. You could consider dropping Jezzails and taking a Bell if you're that worried about BS simply because the 6 Fiends can also take out support heroes with about the same statistical likelihood as 6 Jezzails. Of course, I like having both so you can double down on something like Kroak or target 2 separate ones. But yeah, definitely let me know.. I play more than just Skaven so you don't have to worry about a mirror match 😅
  5. Gwendar
    I definitely prefer 1. I've pretty much exclusively gone down to only 6 Jezzails for the sole purpose of killing support heroes. Even without a Warpspark (but still with RR's to hit) and being on 5's to hit, if only 3 of those go through then you're looking at a dead hero.. and for 280 points, I don't think we have much better to fill that specific role. Units of 9-12 are just able to punch stuff that's a bit bigger, but even then they'll often struggle to 1-shot anything at that wounds\save level. You do have Windlaunchers that could also snipe out a hero so that's another reason I don't feel you need 9 Jezzails anymore, but that's just me. List 2 you pretty much summed up; unreliability. I've been playing a lot more competitive\tournament minded people the last few weeks and have learned a lot from that and changed a few things I was previously set in. DW's and WLC's are great when they work but that's the problem with them. 6 Jezzails will more consistently work and they're cheaper. I think if you wanted to take DW's or WLC's, you would need 2-3 to justify it.. but again, is that worth the points cost compared to 6-9 Jezzails who could do the same thing for cheaper and more consistently? Something I've come to realize is that it generally isn't worth building specifically towards countering those 3-4 S Tier meta armies unless the build can work for everything in between. Thanquol is still up for debate for a lot of the top tier Skaven players; generally between himself or just running a Bell with Master of Magic for less (I dislike this as it would mean I couldn't get Deranged Inventor as a MMMWP failsafe). I personally like him, but he definitely isn't in every list. Just like any other big hero, any good tournament player will see what he can do and remove him from the table, keep him outside 8", etc. We work well in that we can be present in multiple phases and don't do any 1 thing exceptionally well... which is why the "classic" 40 Monks +6 Fiends + 6 Jezzails still works well and is what I keep going back to. Oh, and worth mentioning that if you're taking Thanquol, Soulscream Bridge actually isn't too bad and you could take it by dropping a CP + Pendulum. Anyway, good luck to you.. just get that practice in. If you want to get some games in via Tabletop Simulator let me know and I can invite you to some discord groups 😉
  6. Gwendar
    I appreciate your reference 🤘 I would agree with Doomwheels, which is why I would always take 2 to average them out.. but yeah, is that worth it for 300? Probably not, at least not compared to 6 Jezzails and they would certainly not be something I expect to be in range of (nor the best target for) MMMWP or a Warpspark. And yeah, Jezzails are definitely just worse versions of Longstrikes, but they are our best 5 wound hero killer next to the previously mentioned Windlaunchers. 2 WLC's are obviously good too, but swinginess generally isn't the best idea for competitiveness.
  7. Gwendar
    Yes actually, they could work if you split those 6 shots onto a support hero in the same way you would use the Jezzails\WLC to target them. If you assume the Fiends are getting Deranged Inventor (lets say MMMWP fails to go off and you have this as backup) + Vigordust + Spark then on average they'll do 6-7 damage vs a 4+. The d3 damage can be swingy, but at the very least you would need 3 of the 6 shots to go through unsaved (which at -3 rend is likely to happen) and even if you roll all 1's or 2's you can still kill them with the +1 damage. Not to mention they don't require Line of Sight. 6 Jezzails will do about 5-6 damage, but may be more "consistent" in that regard with a spark, meaning only 2-3 shots need to go through unsaved. Plagueclaws I'm still on the fence about really. They're very "all or nothing" much like the Mortek Crawlers, but at least those have a flat damage characteristic. The d6 damage in itself is unreliable compared to the above 2 options, though Plagueclaws would give you a small anti-horde option as well as a potential hero sniping option all in one if you get really luck with rolls. The issue is that even when targeting 10+ model units 1 of them is only going to be doing around 5-7 damage on average which seems pretty abysmal for a 150 point investment that's looking to remove hordes of 20-40 models. I don't know that bringing a Priest for the sole purpose of buffing them with RR Wounds is worth it either as it only adds another 1-2 average damage and you can get Thanquol with 4 Warpfire Throwers for about the same when it comes to a horde clearer who brings magic utility that he does. As for Arkhspark.. I did it a few times, liked it as it made them more consistent but I still think it's overcosted considering the taxes involved. I'd rather see it change to 80-100 points and be 1-2 Engineers\Bombardiers and 1-2 WLC's and not require the "main" battalion with the AW. 2-3 Doomwheels are pretty consistent at support hero killing and give us some mobility. It just sucks when you really need 5-7+ shots and you roll 2-3; although if you get 2-3 wounds on that hero then you can charge them and do another d3 MW's 😅
  8. Gwendar
    I don't normally get in on these rumor debates. The last one with the sword could be Skaven, but it could just as easily be Vampires or Elves. This one is trickier; Could be Vampires, could be 40k, could be who knows what. But I'll throw you all a suggestion Skaven related; flesh-crafted Moulder wings used by a new Eshin flying unit 😉 As much as I want a Skryre+Eshin combination, I think the more realistic approach may be to update both the Moulder and Eshin lines together and combine the two in a way such as this. Who knows.. they may just update every Clan in some little way to show interaction between them.. or maybe it's purely Moulder.
  9. Gwendar
    HPA's no, probably not.. not unless they went to 200 then I would definitely think about running 2. I enjoy them for their "counter-charge" style because of their 2d6" movement... but that's also a big reason why they can be hard to use competitively if you need to go offensive and they roll 4" to move. Doomwheels I still think are worth it, but I feel the same in that I need 2 at a minimum. They're still up for debate for me between 2 DW's vs 6 Jezzails, but 6 Jezzails will more consistently pop off support heroes.. again, because the random 2d6 shots and d3 damage can be the difference between killing it and doing only 2 wounds to it. This was the LRL list: Not many are going to be a match for them when it comes to magic. I think shooting is the better route to go in our case, but if they're allowed to get all those buffs off you're going to have a hard time taking anything out no matter what. The difficult part of this list was that he actually had enough bodies to screen\zone out deepstrikes rather well. 80 Monks did a total of 8 wounds which is just incredibly disheartening to watch.. and that's due to the multiple saves and -'s to hit which applies to shooting as well, meaning those inherent 4+ to hit now goes to a 5+ (or 4+ with Vigordust) and good luck killing anything. Even if you manage to kill the Wardens then he has 40 Sentinels and Teclis that will shoot\magic you off the board. The unit of 20 did ~11 MW's alone to the Warpgnaw and the units of 10 were averaging 3-5 MW's when they used the ability\spell to make them do MW's on 5+'s. I don't want to seem salty, but I definitely think they're a bit overtuned and most certainly an army I don't think we really have the tools to deal with without winning priority every time; at least not in this particular setup. He lost to KO 1st round, but they obviously struggle with board coverage. Battle for the Pass was easier for him to simply turtle up, prevent anything shooting at something important, wipe me off the board and then have 3 turns to claim objectives. The guy is an incredible player and I definitely can\intend to learn a lot from him. He was the guy who took 4th at this past LVO with Skaven.. so I don't want to discount him for just outplaying me. But it really did feel quite disparaging pretty quickly.
  10. Gwendar
    I believe it's -'s to hit in general, not just melee. The shining company rule gives them -1 and they get another from a spell if I recall.
  11. Gwendar
    I'm with you, but still wrote a couple lists with them just to test. I do not see them being the competitive choice when I get similar damage output from 40 Monks, of which I can bring 80 of for only 60 more points (if you include the obligatory Clawlord, as you said). I'll be honest, after the TTS tournament this weekend and going 1-2 I'm heavily debating going back towards a Fiend\Monk\Jezzail list with Bridge. Double Warpgrinders has been working okay, but against anyone zoning them out it's hard to do anything significant with them and they'll just get deleted unless you get a double. In a tournament of 30-200+ people, you could fight a bunch of these meta lists or none at all; my Lumineth opponent got 3rd at LVO this year building towards handling OBR and he never played a single OBR player and 19 were present at the event.. so I'm trying to rethink how I list-built. Speaking of my Lumineth opponent, the short summary to me is that Lumineth is a hard counter for us; they're weak against MW spam but with the FNP auras and multiple -'s to hit them.. it's rough when our stuff inherently hits on 4+'s and he was easily making the Monks hit on 5's or 6's even at 40. When 40 Monks crash into 2 different units of only 10 Wardens and kill 5 and 3 of them respectively it's just incredibly disheartening. Again though, with the -'s to hit then shooting at them isn't going to give much better results.. and then you have Teclis, but no reason to go into that again. Guy is an incredible player and being unfamiliar with Lumineth didn't help.
  12. Gwendar
    Correct. If my opponent doesn't leave me anywhere to bring them in then they can stay off.. I generally keep the Bombardier pretty far back to make sure nothing short of Kroak is in range to dispell it. Like I said, in my altered list I plan to run a Warbringer who should be able to run up and at least reach one of the units to support them if needed.. all depends on the battleplan, opposing army and deployment which is why this being so adaptable with it's 4 null deploys works out reasonably well. Should I get the turn priority then he can try to get off DDF and hopefully get it onto both units, but the strategy isn't reliant on it.
  13. Gwendar
    Yeah, it's pretty great but it really is reliant on the Cogs going off so the Monks get +3 to their charge in total; rolling a 6 is far easier to do than hoping for that 8 they would get without it. It's versatile enough, especially with my changes to it. Could always start with the Monks on the table, give them both DDF from the Warbringer and Grinder the Clanrats to take objectives later on, but in this scenario without DF\DDF I exclusively keep them underground.
  14. Gwendar
    Alright, here's a few lists with the new GHB changes in mind (and no, Warscroll Builder isn't updated; I manually changed the points) so thoughts are always welcome and wanted. I really considered 6-8 Rat Ogres with a MM\Packmaster.. but I still think they're too expensive for what they do. If they went down to 70-80 I would definitely consider them a lot more, but right now 40 Monks are just better and cheaper. With the Warpgrinder Monks list doing reasonably well, I feel like branching out a bit more so these are mostly very mixed lists. I've largely come to terms with Jezzails being taken in 6's for the sole purpose of 5-wound support hero sniping; 9 won't be enough to take out Kroak\Teclis\etc anyway and I would always need another unit of something to finish the job. That said, I think there's something in running 12 now... but I know I won't get the bits together again to make 3 more since the first 9 were a pain in the ass to begin with 😅 Anyway: Warbginer+SV+Monks+Jezzails Thanquol+Acolytes+SV+Jezzails Thanquol+Fiends\Warpgrinder+Jezzails Warpgrinder Monks+Warbringer+Jezzails Warpgrinder Fiends+Monks+Jezzails So.. that last one is an alternate take on my current and something I doubt I would ever take to a major tournament. The 12" range on the Ratling Cannons means unless I go 2nd and get a double turn they would likely be dead against anyone smart enough to screen them off from shooting anything worthwhile. The 2nd to last above it is a more practical re-work of my current, swapping the Warpgnaw, Bombardier and 3 Jezzails out for a Warbringer, Extra CP, 20 Clanrats and Engineer. Nearly 200 wounds and access to DDF while the Warbringer can be about as killy as the Warpgnaw with Ghyrstrike. We'll see what the realm artifacts look like when the GHB releases, but without Ghyrstrike I don't see him being ran anymore as he would only average about 10 damage with Malevolent + RR1's to hit with a CP. I think the strongest choice here in terms of well-roundedness is the 2nd with Thanquol + SV + Acolytes, but I do really enjoy the idea of the 1st if all goes according to plan. It would do well against CC fast armies that want to charge me T1 and get a double turn; double DF Stormvermin is a big deterrent on top of DF Monks. I enjoy my Warpgrinder list, so I may continue running it using the updated 2nd to last list.
  15. Gwendar
    What's this? A full batrep after nearly 5 months? Yeah.. I missed doing them. I didn't plan to do any during this TTS tournament but figured I would for this 2nd game vs "that" Seraphon list (12 Salamanders). I'll say that I definitely like this list, although with Ghyrstrike (confirmed?) gone then the Warpgnaw no longer has a place in my point of view. He's incredibly glass cannon already and losing the 2's\2's will hurt too much. Once the tournament is over I think I'll start theory-crafting some new stuff, maybe even with Stormvermin. For those curious, 1st game was vs a StD list with Archaon. I royally flubbed it and it was over fairly quick. I went against my better judgement and tried to focus Archaon down to no avail, who then deleted Jezzails (who I had just close enough behind the Clanrats), Monks, Warpgnaw, etc since he can pile in multiple times. Dude was cool and a tournament Skaven player so we talked about a lot for about 30 minutes afterwards.. got a lot of useful insight from him 😉 Don't know who my 3rd game will be against until later tonight, but it looks like it may be between Lumineth, DoT, more Seraphon, CoS or KO on Battle for the Pass. I'll try to get another report up for the final game.
  16. Gwendar
    Seraphon - Scorched Earth My List Seraphon List T1 Took no notes, so I'll be going off memory here and I expect the scores in-between rounds to be wrong except for the final score. I win on drops and let him go first and he generates CCP and absolutely stacks the buffs on Kroak, making him nigh-unkillable with multiple FNP\pass-off saves and sitting on 2+ RR 1's. He put all 4 of his Salamander unit in the sky and brought 1 down to remove the Jezzails Clanrat screen but that was largely it. He did manage to get 1 of the Salamanders in range of the objective and take it from me. I ensured during deployment there was no way for him to teleport behind me and proceed to get Cogs out with a RR and Kroak fails to unbind, but it's close. The Warpgnaw and Monks are all in reserve and I pop 1 unit out to the top of the board and the Warpgnaw comes out bottom left. Both make their charges and remove all the Skinks in the way and I take both objectives. 5-5 Draw T2 I get the double turn, manipulate the Cogs again to keep up the +2 move\charge and then bring up the other 40 Monks with a dutiful sacrifice from the Grinder team. Jezzails finish off the 1st Salamander wave thanks to a Warpspark giving me just enough damage. Warpgnaw and the bottom Monks charge into Kroak, Astrolith, Starseer and 5 Guard while the top Monks just barely make it into the Skinks (rolled a double 1, but the +3 still got me within .5"). Now, here was my biggest mistake of the game. For some reason, I decided to go with the Warpgnaw into Kroak first knowing full well I needed to go with the Monks first to try to remove the Astrolith and 5 Guard.. so the game would've ended right away had I done that. All in all the Warpgnaw did 3-4 damage to Kroak out of 10.. again, had I killed off his Guard first I would've taken off Kroak and that would be game, but oh well... live and learn. Top Monks clear the 10 Skinks and I decide to risk it and burn all 4 objectives to ensure he can't teleport and take them back once I move off. Kroaks spellcasting absolutely shreds both Monk units by around 10-15 models each and kills the Warpgnaw (with whom I've rolled ~4 5+ FNP saves across 3 games so far). He then teleports Kroak bottom middle and brings down 2 more Salamander units, which wipe off the Jezzails. 17-5 Skaven T3 I somehow win priority again but don't have a lot I can do with it so I just manipulate the Cogs again and Warp-Lightning is unbound by Kroak. Top Monk unit charges the Astrolith, Starpriest, Starseer and 1 remaining Guard and take out the Astrolith and put a couple wounds on the Starseer while bottom Monks run towards Kroak. Kroak yet again goes to town thrashing everything with spells and he brings down the last Salamander unit. By the end of his turn, I'm completely tabled. He didn't manage to get the top right objective, so I still scored it making it 22-8. From there, he won T4 priority and teleported Kroak to the top right objective to bring the score to 22-12. For T5, he burns all objectives but doesn't roll enough, making the final score 22-22 with a Skaven victory. Overall Thoughts Yeah this list is rough.. I think I played this about as perfectly as I could with the exception being my idiotic mistake of not choosing the Monks to take the Guard/Astrolith off the board before going into Kroak. I probably could've used the Jezzails a bit better as well.. I definitely think I would've been better off keeping them closer to the Gnawhole and teleporting them out of that little killzone (or you know, just put them further back) and they may have even been alive to take out Kroak. This game was way too close and a lot of things went right for me. Winning all priority rolls I think is what got me the win, especially since I didn't make best use of my double turn with the whole not-picking-the-right-unit-to-fight-first thing. Thanks for reading.. I'll try to do more of these; I missed doing batreps for nearly 5 months 😅
  17. Gwendar
    @Darkhan Yeah, absolutely silly things here. 40 Stormvermin + Clawlord is still a quarter of your list yet 2x40 Monks would get the job done better most of the time and cost marginally more. As for the minor decreases... yeah, they have a habit of changing one thing but upping something that goes together with it, effectively making a non-change. I would've gone back to running Acolytes if they changed back to 25mm, but currently they seem pointless. Curious to see that WLV went down to 80; I could at least somewhat justify it now in my Thanquol setups. @Skreech Verminking are you sure about that? I haven't seen that anywhere. Only that everything CoS and onward would get their points updates later.. my guess is either 2 weeks from now or during the 6 month FAQ's which would be this winter. Or maybe I read it wrong.. cause I think Seraphon got updates too. Oh well.
  18. Gwendar
    @Skreech Verminking That's... incredibly disappointing and I'm not in the least bit surprised. The minor decreases seem odd and upping Engineers by 10 makes no sense when their one and only purpose is Acolyte\Fiend buffing which has gone downhill as a strategy due to the meta. Skaven haven't been performing super well so I'm not sure how these were thrown together. Oh well.. there's a reason I said cautiously pessimistic 😉. The saddest part is that SV still aren't viable at 400 points compared to running 2x40 Monks, at least not for me. I may run them to try them out at least, we'll see.
  19. Gwendar
    @Darkhan Oh I plan to be updating you all after each. It's 1 game a day (trying to make it spread across 3 days due to everyone being in different time zones so no one's playing at 4am) so I have time.. if there's a link for us streaming in discord I'll post it here for anyone that wants to watch. Think I may actually switch the 2 WLC's (thus also dropping the NR's) to 9 Jezzails again in this particular instance despite saying otherwise a couple posts back. I spoke with a couple tournament guys and got a bit more feedback and that was both their suggestion.. so we'll see. Getting the teleporting Gnawhole shots with these long sight lines could be invaluable on top of the average damage being higher. Of course I'm most curious to see how the Monks do. It really depends on getting Cogs off or else I'll have to keep them in reserve another turn since there's no DF available to allow them to take a hit and hit back. Of course I gotta also hope I can roll a 6+ twice on 2d6 after that 😉
  20. Gwendar
    I just don't think it makes sense in this regard as I feel long range MWs is necessary and losing the WLC's isn't worth it. But yeah, a lot does need to go right in that scenario which is what I try to minimize; in this setup I really only need Cogs to go off which means the engineer will be sitting outside unbind as much as possible. I agree though.. anti meta is fun to play obviously but I still feel incredibly weak by comparison which is why I've placed us around the low C to low B tier. I think I'll submit the above though. Even if I roll average on 1 overcharged WLC + the normal shot from the other it would be doing around the same as 9 Jezzails. Hell, I could be real ridiculous and drop the WLC's and Engineer for 3 Doomwheels but that's approaching the ridiculousness territory. I need the Engineer specifically for the cast RR's but I definitely am excited for trying this out, although I'm not 100% confident altogether 😅
  21. Gwendar
    I've considered Fiends as well but it would be tight and I would need a 3rd Grinder for the Engineer (don't want to rely on a more expensive Grey Seer to get off Skitterleap) so for now this is what I'm considering after @Darkhan mentioned it: I could drop one of the Monk units and a Cannon, however I would need to also drop the other Cannon or something else to make room for the 3rd Warp Grinder if I wanted to use Fiends.
  22. Gwendar
    Considered it, but felt the Fiends would be the better option against Kroaks/Teclis' or Kairos.. assuming they don't zone them out. I'm concerned with getting the cast off but you've definitely got me thinking about another version... I'll get to tinkering 😉 Remember this is for Tabletop Simulator so people have already made models for the units, even if they're not all released yet. From the streams I've watched on the TTS discord for AoS, Teclis has been absolutely dominating as expected.
  23. Gwendar
    Alright, registered for a TTS tournament this weekend and stuck between the following. It'll be Battle for the Pass, Scorched Earth and Total Conquest and Lumineth will be allowed: Grinders/Fiends Thanquol/Warpgnaw: The 1st is experimental and dunno that I could change much of anything, but the 2nd is my current go to template and thus could be changed around. For example, I could drop the CP and the DW and bring a Bombardier to buff one of the WLC's on top of having a chancy 2d6 damage shot if needed. Alternatively, I could drop the WLC's and CP and have 9 Jezzails. Thoughts welcome of course before I officially submit a list. I want to bring 15-20 Gutter Runners or 10 Night Runners but.. can't really find a way to include them without sacrificing things I feel are necessary to remove threats.
  24. Gwendar
    There's a small group of more casual people at our local GW that don't use the double turn, and they once had a competitive league running that made it up to the players whether or not to use it and it was encouraged by the management not to. Since I strictly play competitive I just always run with it since all tournaments use it... unless I'm doing a teaching\casual game with someone who vehemently hates it then I don't mind. Tactics would change quite a bit obviously and I think it could lead to more cases of shooting and far cagier play unless you're an army that can AFF\AFL. Overall I'm fine with it.. I just feel the majority is heavily in favor of it with no changes. I just try to think of it from a neutral point of view in which you can try to snatch it from someone who has potential to get it instead of it being solely on a single dice roll.
  25. Gwendar
    I've always been on the fence with it.. but mostly against it. I feel one of the easiest ways to keep it in the game but also try to appease both sides is by somehow introducing +'s to the rolls, or spending CP to re-roll. I'm sure we've all heard every manner of tweaking it so who knows what they would do or if they would even do it. If turns were always back and forth it would fundamentally change how it's played and that could be good\bad. It would certainly change lists across the board. Keeping it but giving people a chance to steal it\get +'s to the roll could be one solution. Things like Flamers\Salamanders\KO ships teleporting in front of you and removing units that can be hard to zone out combined with board-wide (or nearly boardwide with spellportal) spells from Kroak, Teclis or Kairos\LoC just isn't a good play experience for casual or competitive environments. At the same time, I try to remember when we had the old Gautfyre that would just annihilate your opponent T1 😅
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