svnvaldez

No one should make any generic statements whether or not something is good or bad. We all should only be providing our personal experience. My personal experience with AOS prior to matched play / points in the original GH was not positive. I also think that GW has been clear Matched play is here to stay. It has been in every GH since the first. So has Narrative and Open.

How is it helpful to make generic statements about how a whole population felt about a topic? I for one was not sore about End Times. I bought the starter set at launch. Sure some people might have liked it. I did not. The game was only enjoyable when I played with a buddy and we played a form of what you would call narrative now.

This exists... it's called 9th age. I don't understand what you want. 9th age is community 8th ed. If you want this for AOS why not make it? call it 9th realm or something. All the power to you. I won't be interested in this game but would your efforts not be better served starting this project then complaining about GW matched play on TGA?

I think a few people in this chat need to go try 9th age... A few of you seem like your not interested in GW matched play. Which is fine... but it is hard to listen to the same complaint over and over again that the game was better without points... or that we the community should just house rule the game. Balance in matched play could be improved yes. Summoning is particularly bad at the moment. But I'd rather play GWs game than a fan made mess of matched play. And guess what... if you want to introduce house rules or modify points you can... it's called narrative / open play.

Honestly I’m still waiting on the 2 week FAQ before investing in any list. I want to know if they modify the bloodtoof trait and if they continue to let BigG have a mount trait.

I bet it’s the hidden sleeper ppl aren’t talking about enough

I was thinking similar! Buff up a unit of ardboyz or brutes and auto teleport into a line then auto charge someone’s face off Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: BloodtoofsMortal Realm: ShyishLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- General- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Trait: Get Da Realmgate - Artefact: Quickduff Amulet - Mount Trait: Mean 'UnMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet - Mount Trait: Weird'UnOrruk Warchanter (110)- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatBattleline5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute Choppas- 1x Gore Choppas5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute Choppas- 1x Gore Choppas20 x Orruk Brutes (560)- Pair of Brute Choppas- 4x Gore ChoppasBattalionsBrute Fist (120)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 126

If both players do the above, then both players have optimized the pre game and have an equal chance to win on the table. Then the winner of the game will be the player who makes the right moves and gets the right dice rolls. My argument is only that 1) it is important to recognize there exists a pre game in AOS and 2) Many games I play have a pregame so I don't take issue with it. Below is from pre rotation MTG https://mtgadecks.net/ If you do not have one of these T1 decks you are not going to be winning an event. I see AOS the same way. For me the balance I hope for with AOS is that 1) most armies are at least viable... ie you can at least participate in any game you play regardless of your list. This does not mean you will win... only that you can have an engaging game, 2) that there exist multiple top end builds to chose from... for me a number like 4 or 5 builds is plenty and 3) the top builds rotate in order to keep the game fresh.

I would call this the pre game... That a player can either participate in or choose not to participate in. My argument is that players have an equal chance of winning at the point of agreeing to a game in the future or signing up for an event.

Please stop. No it is not. What is WAAC anyway. There is nothing wrong with trying to win a game at all costs as long as you are following the rules of the game. That doesn't ruin anything. If by WAAC you mean someone who is actively cheating... then write a Cheater not WAAC. People who blame WAAC players have no idea what they are talking about.

So I hear you completely... when I play in organized matched play I only use my tournament army. I'm not really interested in "toning down" or "balance" I'm interested in winning. However when I play a game with my brother or a friend I'd say i'm playing something closer to open play. I either write both army lists or I ask to see theirs and then match it in power. I would tell them not to play in a tournament. Or be okay losing a few rounds and only getting in 1 or 2 games with other people on lower tables. I would disagree with this. I think it's much more like playing Monopoly against a person who knows the optimal properties to purchase and such. If two people agree to play a game of AOS or Monopoly they both have an equal chance to win the game at the point of agreement. The issue with AOS vs Monopoly is AOS is not a symmetric game like @hughwyeth wrote. AOS has a pregame and during that pregame you build your army. I would say that if one person wants to participate in the pregame and the other does not then there is no reason the more prepared player should not have the advantage. This pregame exists in most games I play. MTG, WoW battlegrounds, etc.

Honestly I even think its balanced enough for tournament play with cash as long as all participants realize what they are getting into. TO need to be aware that prizes incentivize bending the rules as much as possible. TOs need a tight pack and be ready to make tough calls and ejections if needed. Nothing wrong with everyone running one build if they are there to win. Everyone should be aware of what they are getting into though.

100% Everyone read this as it sums the state of GW up well

IMO "four or five core builds" is decent for a competitive game. MTGA during the last rotation only had about 3-5 core builds so I find this standard. Yes slaanesh summoning is an issue. Not its strong imo but because it is non interactive. No one wants to play the guy who gets a free second army. No. See my above post on why I think they will only aim for semi balance. Yes.

IMO AOS currently aims to be a semi balanced interactive tabletop game with beautiful models. In my opinion AOS as is, is currently hitting that mark. Moves such as digital points and frequent 2.0 updates to get books current makes be confident that the game will remain in a good state. Will it ever be fully balanced? IMO no. I don't think GW wants that either. I think the target is for the new hotness to be slightly better than older books to promote sales yet allow the older armies to remain viable. Often in the past GW has missed the mark on semi balanced and gone into the realm of broken and non interactive (Vwing, Changehost, Activation Wars, etc). Slaaneshs' DP are probably the biggest offender currently. However FAQs have me hopeful that most things will be brought in line relatively quickly.

Maybe consider leaving the Krukk at home for 1k? Just take a unit of 30 behind a 10 man screen? Give them the spell +1 to hit. Maybe something like this? Allegiance: Bonesplitterz - Warclan: Drakkfoot Leaders Maniak Weirdnob (120) Battleline 30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360) 10 x Savage Orruks (120) - Chompas Behemoths Rogue Idol (400) Total: 1000 / 2000

With all rules questions the first thing I do is drop all preconceived notions of what I think is right. Then I open up my trusty PDFs of all rules that I keep on my computer (thank you russians for making these free lol - I'm in the 30 and under crowd that do not believe in digital property rights ). Quick Ctrl F of "cover" in the "errata of the core book" and "designers’ commentary of the core rules" return no results. Ctrl F of the Core Rules has 6 results - only 1 of interest imo. "Add 1 to save rolls for a unit if all of its models are wholly on or within a terrain feature when the rolls are made." Ctrl F "wholly on" only returns 1 result in the 3 documents. Ctrl F "within" returns 94 results in the 3 documents. "Wholly within" and "within" are typically followed by x inches. Probably should be an FAQ of what "Wholly on" means since you probably don't want to write "Wholly within zero inches" to mean you are physically fully on something. RAW your friend might have a point. Probably not the ROI of cover but typically I don't care much about ROI. First time I have ever heard of this however, and never have played it or seen it played this way. I'm sure there are countless examples like this that need an FAQ. I try not to think about it too much. KEYWORD and KEYWORDS drive me crazy personally. A keyword and the plural of the keyword are not really the same keyword imo. A benefit of being a tournament gamer is if this came up in game... I'd just call the TO over for a ruling. It doesn't really matter if the TO gets the ruling right or wrong imo. That is the way it's going to be judged and tough luck for the guy he rules against. But if you lose a game on 1 bad TO calling you probably should have been winning by a larger amount... that way one human error won't cost you.

@daviseford Could you look into why “Turn One Start of Round” gets placed on the last page? These reminders are amazing BTW.

Have we had reliable confirmation on the max unit size of Ardboyz? 20? 30?

As long as you have a solid plan for them, have built buff spells into the list, and have enough CP and characters to keep IP up I think they are super solid. Assuming we can have them in 8s I’ll be taking them for a bit. I like the idea of pre game moving them up in a sideways line with 30 arrows behind. You can then either buff the arrow or the stabbas and alpha. The arrows can fly over the stabbas with the spell if you need to get into firing position.

Be ready to have your soul crushed painting! It legit took me 2 years from start to finish with my 90 boyz. Do not be the fool who decides to try your best painting a Bonesplitterz army. I was averaging a boy a month... darkest days of my hobby life lol.

Until someone wins a GT with Clans (then I will just net list ) I am starting every list like this! Throw the 30 away and get board coverage. Krukk in the back field for later. 100 Sav boss 120 Boar mage Breath of Gorkamorka 120 Boar mage Bone Spirit 120 Boar mage Brutal Beast Spirits 360 30 Sav arrowz out of Krukk 240 20 Sav arrowz in Krukk 240 20 Sav arrowz in Krukk 140 Krukk Drakkfoot clan 1440

And think of the time saved in accounting and dice rolling!

He means 90 attacks: 15 will be 4s, 15 will be 5s, 15 will be 6s. The 6s proc. so 15+15+15x2 60 hits 30 wounds

I kinda think ppl are really going to want Gordrakk and 2 chanters for 10 points each round. Or maying 3+ chanters and the normal boss. I think ppl are going to want the +1 hit and wound asap