Darksteve

That's a fair point. I've only used them in conjunction with our buffs and Brass Despoilers.

Why do people over in BOC think bullgors are bad? Theyve performed excellent for me in testing so far. For the hero it depends what youre taking. I take a doombull to buff my bullgors even more. If you are taking all brayherd though a beastlord can be excellent. They are both beatsticks in combat.

@Battlefury I am also of the opinion that Brass Despoilers is worth foregoing pretty much all the slaughterhost synergy. I took the following to my FLGs today and played against a Hammers of Sigmar list in the mission were you can burn objective in your opponent's deployment.: Allegiance: Khorne- Mortal Realm: Ghur LEADERS Bloodsecrator (140) - General - Command Trait : Violent Urgency - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (280) - Artefact : Amberglaive Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Bronzed Flesh Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Blood Sacrifice Doombull of Khorne (120) UNITS 10 x Bestigors of Khorne (120) 5 x Blood Warriors (100) - Goreaxe & Gorefist 10 x Bloodreavers (70) - Meatripper Axes 6 x Bullgors of Khorne (320) 5 x Wrathmongers (140) 10 x Gors of Khorne (80) 10 x Gors of Khorne (80) BATTALIONS Brass Despoilers (190) ENDLESS SPELLS Wrath-Axe (60) TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 134 LEADERS: 6/6 BATTLELINES: 4 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400 My opponent got to choose and went first. Poor screening and a health underestimation of Stormcast deepstrike led to a unit of Sequitors, and two characters deep striking just outside of my Bloodthirster turn 1. One of his heros popped an ability allowing +3 to charge for units wholly within 12" and the block all charged my poor BT wiping him out before he could hit back. The rest of his army shuffled in front of his objectives and a unit of the crossbow guys tried to snipe my bloodsecrator but failed. On my turn one I got bloodboils off and killed his named character who deepstruck and then the bullgors shuffled sideways and just destroyed the sequitors. Everything else of mine moved up a bit and made ready to recieve a charge. Ended up not being an issue as I got the double turn used murderlust to get my bullgors in position to throw a charge up the field and deleted another unit of Sequitors, This one came back on a 5+ because of the Hammers ability. So the unit ended up teleporting back behind my lines. I didn't take great notes during the rest of the game, but I ended up rolling better on burning objectives than he did and came out ahead by 1or 2 Vps. Game takeaways: Bestigors and Bullgors are absolutely amazing. The bullgors being followed around by the secrator, wrathmongers, and doombull could go into anything and with 7" base movement they could get where they needed to be. Blood sacrifice is an amazing prayer. Because we have a number of things that happen at the "Start of the hero phase." and because we can pick the order we can really get some good synergy going. For example, if I needed a few bloodtithe to use murderlust in my hero phase but I only had 1 or 2 at the start, well order the abilities: Blood Blessings, Axe Summon/Movement, Bloodtithe option. That was if the axe kills stuff you can immediately spend that bloodtithe, likewise with the blood sacrifice blood blessing. This led me muderlust bullgors fairly often and let me throw them at threat after threat. Bloodthirster is a really funny distraction carnifex. 280 points and I've seen a few opponents wildly overcommit to killing him. Brass Despoilers is strong as a battalion. Rerolling hits of 1, rerolling wounds once per battle and slapping the khorne keyword on everything is amazing and I would rather take it than most of our book battations. Gors with shields are surprisingly tanky battleline. For 10 more points than reavers you get 6" with + 1" run and pile in, run and charge, and a 4+ save in melee with the shields. Missing the rend is a little sad but honestly is probably worth it for what they are there for. Game 2 I played 1500 against Daughters of Khaine. The mission where the objective value starts at 1 when you first get it, then goes, 2, 4, and 8 if you hold it all game without burning it. I'm not good at remembering details for actual battle reports but the list I took was Allegiance: Khorne - Mortal Realm: Ghyran LEADERS Bloodsecrator (140) - General - Command Trait : Violent Urgency - Artefact : Talisman of Burning Blood Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Bronzed Flesh Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Blood Sacrifice Doombull of Khorne (120) - Artefact : Ghyrstrike UNITS 10 x Bestigors (120) 6 x Bullgors of Khorne (320) 5 x Wrathmongers (140) 10 x Gors of Khorne (80) 10 x Gors of Khorne (80) BATTALIONS Brass Despoilers (190) ENDLESS SPELLS TOTAL: 1500/1500 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 100 LEADERS: 5/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400 Once again the main takeaway I had here was that with gors eating charges with bullgors ready to follow up bullgors can pretty much wipe out anything. Usually when I play against this guy daughters can run circles around my less mobile hammers, but with the bullgors being just faster than most of the traditional Khorne non-cavalry hammer units I was able to leapfrog them from unit to unit with the bloodsecrator and wrathmongers just running behind every turn to keep up. TLDR: I think Brass Despoilers is amazing and I am looking forward to trying it out more. I am going to get in another game against stormcast Monday and I think I might give the following a try: Allegiance: Khorne - Mortal Realm: Ghur LEADERS Bloodsecrator (140) - General - Command Trait : Violent Urgency - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Bronzed Flesh Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Blood Sacrifice Doombull of Khorne (120) Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (280) - Artefact : Amberglaive UNITS 6 x Bullgors of Khorne (320) 5 x Wrathmongers (140) 10 x Bloodreavers (70) - Meatripper Axes 10 x Bloodreavers (70) - Meatripper Axes 10 x Bloodreavers (70) - Meatripper Axes 10 x Bestigors of Khorne (120) 10 x Bestigors of Khorne (120) BATTALIONS Brass Despoilers (190) ENDLESS SPELLS Wrath-Axe (60) TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 134 LEADERS: 6/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400 The thought is that making my battleline all reavers means that I can afford another unit of bestigors, who are phenomenally independent. Any advice or suggestions would be welcome.

I was thinking in a similar vein, but I do really like the bloodtithe system as of the new book. I am looking to try the following at my FLGS tomorrow. Ill let you guys know how it does. Any suggestions are appreciated of course! ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Chaos - Khorne) [2000pts] ++ + Uncategorised + Skull Altar + Leader + Bloodsecrator [140pts]: 3. Gryph-feather Charm, 6. Violent Urgency, General Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage [280pts]: 3. Amberglaive Slaughterpriest [100pts]: 5. Killing Frenzy, Hackblade & Wrath-hammer Slaughterpriest [100pts]: 1. Bronzed Flesh, Hackblade & Wrath-hammer Slaughterpriest [100pts]: 2. Blood Sacrifice, Hackblade & Wrath-hammer + Battleline + Blood Warriors [100pts]: 5 Blood Warriors, Goreaxe and Gorefist Bloodreavers [70pts]: 10 Bloodreavers, Reaver Blades + Other + Wrathmongers [140pts]: 5 Wrathmongers + Battalion + Battalion: Brass Despoilers [910pts]: Brass Despoilers, Doombull . Bestigors: 10 Bestigors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns . Bullgors: 2x 3 Bullgors, Bullgor Great Axes, Warherd Banner Bearer, Warherd Drummer . Gors: 10 Gors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns, Gor Blade and Beastshield . Gors: 10 Gors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns, Gor Blade and Beastshield + Allegiance + Allegiance: Khorne + Game Options + Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost + Realm of Origin + Realm of Origin: Origin: Ghur + Malign Sorcery + Judgements of Khorne [60pts]: Wrath-Axe + Realm of Battle + Realm of Battle ++ Total: [2000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe

Unbuffed a unit of 10 dogs double fighting is 21 average damage to a 5+ save model and 26 damage against a 6+ save model. An IR BT averages 21.5 against both with 4 being mortals in an 8" Aoe. Other than that I agree with what you said.

I cant comment from experience directly as I dont own 3 Bloodthirsters, but in theory I think the option with dogs WOK and 15 BW is the best bet. However, I would split the BWs into a squad of 10 and 5. That way you have more flexible board prescence for very little loss.

Mighty Lord is silly fun. I usually send him off like a bullet against big stuff. Once I reality split my opponent just once he becomes a very effective zoning piece against big monsters. He's split a great unclean one, 3 of the daughters of khaine shrines and some others. Always feels silly fun to do. The issue I have with them atm is the cost. If they come down a bit ill look at them again. For now im experimenting with Brass Despoilers

So I'm not sure why you think these things, but pre-nerf 1 cannon + wrathmongers had the same number of shots as two cannons, only one less melee attack with a hellblade and the mongers could easily buff nearby units. 3 cannons is likewise not better than pre-nerf two cannon mongers. @n1ceguypaul As for skullcannon viability now. They average 2.2 damage per shot with locus and killing frenzy which isnt great for 140 points. They fufill a role just are disappointing for thier cost. I am in a similar boat having bought 2 cannons before the faq and have since shelved them for now

I really like this concept. I had posted a similar list a few posts back. For me though I cut the reavers and beastigors for more regular gors with shields as having 80 point 4+ save screens in melee seemed great. Bullgors seem absolutely amazing in brass despoilers with great axes

I saw some people mentioning Brass Despoilers so I threw a list together. What do people think? BOKBrassDepoilers.pdf Allegiance: Khorne - Mortal Realm: Ghur LEADERS Bloodsecrator (140) - General - Command Trait : Berzerker Lord - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (280) - Artefact : Amberglaive Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Bronzed Flesh Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Blood Sacrifice Doombull of Khorne (120) UNITS 6 x Bullgors of Khorne (320) 10 x Gors of Khorne (80) 10 x Gors of Khorne (80) 5 x Blood Warriors (100) - Goreaxe & Gorefist 5 x Blood Warriors (100) - Goreaxe & Gorefist 5 x Wrathmongers (140) BATTALIONS Brass Despoilers (190) ENDLESS SPELLS Wrath-Axe (60) Bleeding Icon (40) TOTAL: 1950/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 124 LEADERS: 6/6 BATTLELINES: 4 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400 The idea is to present threats in the bullgors and the bloodthirster, both of which are marginally quick and use the gors and blood warriors as screens/sacrifice targets

I would love to see a list from you, that you have had success with so that I can see where I may have gone wrong.

Cannons in thier current state have an average shooting output of 2.2 damage per model per shot if they get 2+ to hit and have locus on them. That is before saves or fnp are taken into account. Now 3x cannons will put out 6.6 damage before saves per volley. That means that, if they get to shoot, charge, shoot, they get an average of 19.2 damage per turn before saves or fnp. 30 bloodletters with about 20 in combat with the same buffs do about 18 damage before saves. The differences obviously being that skullcannons output drops to 6.6 at range as opposed to 0, the Bloodletters having 9 more wounds and the ability to reroll charges and replenish thier numbers, the skullcannons having a better save. Skullcannons are mostly unplayable as for 120 points more than 30 BL you get 6.6 ranged damage, less wounds, less mortal wounds, and only slightly more rend. Plus BL scale much harder with any buffs that affectthem both.

At 105 4 skullcannons cost the same as 2 plus wrathmongers did for the same number of shots. 100 would be even better obviously

If in GHB 2019 they lower skullcannons to 105 ppm they will be as good as they were pre FAQ. Here's holding out hope for viable artillery for my army

So I believe you can, but you have to order them in a very specific way. You have two abilities that let something happen after you first fight. 1 lets another BT fight and the other lets you fight again. If you let the next BT fight immediately then you will still qualify for the other fight again ability as you have not fought again before the ability is resolved, which is what they addressed.

Sorry, but in order to get 32 shots with 8 skullcannons pre nerf you needed to be in close combat. 8 skullcannons at 2 shots a piece pre-nerf is 16 shots. 32 comes from shooting again in the combat phase after you killed a model. If you have 32 shots in the shooting phase you needed 16 skullcannons which is 2240 points alone. Also khorne is argueably not really that good at cc compared to other armies like stormcast, daughters, etc.

The key here is context. The cannons alone there are 1120 points, then you need at least a bloodthrone and at least 3 battleline plus whatever the battalion costs. 32 shots predicates that you get 8 skullcannons in combat every turn and suffer 0 losses between combats and then assuming average rolls you wind up with 64ish damage a turn from shooting from your whole army. Not bad, but not game breaking by any means. And thats assuming your opponent makes 0 saves. At 2.2 damage average per shot per cannon you really need to have that 2nd shot to be worth 140 ppm.

I'll try and be as thorough as I can be here. Before the faq you had a modelthat put out roughly 4.4 damage a turn per phase it got to shoot at 30" At 140 points that is in line with most other played artilleryand gave khorne an interesting tactical option. I would hardly call 4.4 damage "cheese", its not like it was a 72ish mortal wound turn 1 bloodletter bomb. Now its half that damage for the same cost, putting it outof line with other artillery in the game. This seemed to be a unnecessary nerf to a new playstyle.

The issue is that when the cannons were able to be buffed they weren't nuts, just playable. Now they get to be bad again which is sad. I would personally like to have more models where fielding them doesn't feel like I'm just taking a worse unit from another army.

I wonder why they walked back their claim after one of the rules designers claimed it was intentional.

You are absolutely correct. My intent was to point out that using the highlighted rules text to say the other poster was *clearly* in the wrong actually didnt support the point the detracting poster was making.

I did like that the highlighted combat phase text actually doesnt preclude using melee attacks. "Must attack with all melee" != "can only attack with all melee. "

Would love feedback on this list from my fellow Blood God devotees. ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Chaos - Khorne) [2000pts] ++ + Uncategorised + Skull Altar + Leader + Bloodmaster, Herald of Khorne [80pts] Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage [280pts]: 3. Amberglaive + Artillery + Skull Cannons [280pts]: 2x Skull Cannon + Battleline + Bloodletters [300pts]: 3x 10 Bloodletters, Hornblower . Icon Bearer: Bloodsoaked Banner, Gore-drenched Icon + Other + Wrathmongers [140pts]: 5 Wrathmongers + Battalion + Battalion: Gore Pilgrims [820pts] . Blood Warriors: 2x 5 Blood Warriors, Goreaxe and Gorefist, Goreglaives, Icon Bearer . Bloodreavers: 10 Bloodreavers, Reaver Blades . Bloodreavers: 10 Bloodreavers, Reaver Blades . Bloodsecrator: General . Slaughterpriest: 5. Killing Frenzy, Hackblade & Wrath-hammer . Slaughterpriest: 1. Bronzed Flesh, Hackblade & Wrath-hammer + Allegiance + Allegiance: Khorne + Game Options + Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost + Realm of Origin + Realm of Origin: Origin: Ghur + Malign Sorcery + Judgements of Khorne [100pts]: Bleeding Icon, Wrath-Axe ++ Total: [2000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe

Correct. Currently the only way to buff the skullcannons number of ranged attacks in the army is wrathmongers. Editting to avoid double post. Mathmatically, with the same buffs, 2x skullcannons at 280 points average ~30 damage against 5+ models compared to 30 Bloodletters at 300 averaging ~43 damage against the same. Keep in mind cannons are much easier to buff and get in as well.

Yes sir and not just them. You could have Skullcannons fight out of order as well, and if you are bloodlords you could do it guaranteed. Or if youre reapers the unit you select can fight twice out of order.