Malakree
-
Posts
2,760 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
5
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Store
Downloads
Blogs
Events
Posts posted by Malakree
-
-
7 hours ago, broche said:
but 60 pts is a lot.
It's the same cost as cogs which is my point. It's also not something mandatory for turn 1 which means you aren't forced into strange plays involving hiding the wizard essentially removing him from the game.
Additionally you can throw out a mystic shield turn 1 which is ofc huge for the cabbage with ironclad.
I might agree on the weirdfist, haven't played it yet so it's theoretical.
-
So playing at a real tournament this weekend instead of a more casual one and it has house rules about no ability stacking.
Honestly without IJ are weak. We really rely on the massive explosion turns with multiple waaagh! Going off.
I'm still on the fence about the broach having not played a game which has stacking without it.
I think with the broach in play we sit as a mid T0 army (the borked ones) because of the huge swing value we have.
Without stacking we are a top of T2 army, solid 2-3/5 with most lists.
With stacking but no broach ironjawz are mid to high t1. We will occasionally take games off tournament winning lists and are a reasonable 4/5.
Also I'm not entirely sold on the cogs, at 60 points they are very high risk for their cost and are very random on the value we get. Yes they are fantastic for ggs but bloodtoofs+cp for charge reroll actually gives us that anyway and 4/4/- is garbage whether it's 1 or d3.
I think we might actually benefit way more from an emerald lifeswarm, at the same cost, or even 40 on an aethervoid pendulum with 20 in the bank.
Not to mention that just having the 60 left gets you an extra cp AND 60 towards a triumph.
Yes I love the cogs, yes I love my "I rolled an 8 so I move 14" but I'm just not sure they aren't more of a hindrance than a help. Would you rather have everything move and charge 2" more or deal d6 mortals to a bunch of stuff?
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, Txplays said:
Want to try my Hag with 2.0. List 1 or 2, any suggestions?
Allegiance: Destruction
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Armour of Gork
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Allies
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 380 / 400
Wounds: 109
Allegiance: Destruction
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: The Golden Toof
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Allies
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)
Ironfist (180)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 380 / 400
Wounds: 115
Ironskullz boys sadly aren't allowed in an ironfist since it's not keyword bold for the ardboys. That means it must specifically be a unit of orruk ardboys so list 1 isn't legal.
-
1
-
-
Honestly I feel like they need to just do a Great Waaagh! book in the legions style.
- Morks Little Waaagh! - Gitmob, Moonclan, Spiderfang, Troggoths and Aleguzzlers
- Horde of the Great Devourer - All Ogors
- Fist of Gork - Ironjawz, Greenskinz, Bonesplitterz and Aleguzzlers.
- Braggoths Bestial Tide - All the various mounted elements of Destruction (so the chariots, boar riding heroes etc.
- Savage Hordes - Bonesplitterz and Spiderfang.
Check the new updated Monstrous Arcanum They have added the leader keyword to her and a bunch of other behemoths!
EDIT:
FIMIR WARRIORS ARE NOW BATTLELINE IF A FIMIRACH NOBLE IS YOUR GENERAL !!!!!!!!
-
5
-
1
-
1
-
20 minutes ago, broche said:
i'm having a reflexion about brutes. It seem right now Ardboys just seem a better overall choice every time. For simplicity, i'll assume Ardboys have big choppa for comparaison
- 4 pts vs 6 pts per effective life.
- More models for objectives and Shaman casting bonus.
- +2 to charge and better bravery.
On the counter part, Brutes hit arder (10 vs 6.67 base, but brutes have some buff Ardboys can't get like reroll). However, if you add a warchanter and +2 attack from waaagh, it become less relevant (and they do cost more)
The most important difference is something @Sangfroid was advocating pre-AoS2. The Smasha for the Brute Boss is one of our very few ways to get -2 rend, that is beyond massive against a lot of different things, for example a stardrake.
-
1
-
-
53 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:
I'm of the opinion that if you are rolling 1 of the 18 missions your list must have 3 scorers for when you roll arcane power. That can be any way you see fit but when playing mixed destro we don't really have access to reasonable battalions to get the extra artifact or a beefy monster wizard (other than troll hag and Arock).
I played one of those at the weekend, other guy goes "so which of your heroes can score it?"
Oh all of them, 4 heroes 3 with artefacts and a wizard ?
To be honest with all the new artefacts from the realms and the fact you don't have to have a general to use their CA the Hag seems like the Queen of Mixed Destruction. She's got a fantastic spell, is a wizard, has regeneration, solid shooting attack and a built in -1 to hit in melee. Add in an Artefact like the Ignis Scale from Realm of Fire (+4 MW save) and a command trait, what an absolute beast.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, DerZauberer said:
So you had your whole force within 10" of your Weirdnob the whole time? There is 31 Orruk Heads in your force.
Not the whole time, but it only needs to be 1/2 turns. At the end of turn 2 he only had Nagash left and I got priority turn 3.
You don't need to shut them down for the entire game, you just need to stop the -1 to hit, half movement etc. on turn 1.
1 hour ago, DerZauberer said:I literally hate that spell. In 20+ games I literally never got it off. Maybe that's why I dislike them ...
Look at it this way, you are as likely to get foot of gork off with a weirdnob on arcane as you are to get cogs off from a Wurrgog without arcane.
1 hour ago, DerZauberer said:Is there any other popular one drop besides Dreadwood Sylvaneth and other Ironjawz? (both melee focused forces) Could imagine that 2-drop is still enough to decide on first turn in most cases. Or let's say, in my games till now it always was enough.
I think the ability to decide first turn or not is crucial for Ironjawz. If you are against something like nagash you can force turn 1 onto them leaving him out of range to cast spells in his first turn, especially since you can only target through the Spell Portal once per phase.
1 hour ago, DerZauberer said:I just think magic is a arms race which ironjawz can't compete anyway - or let's say have to invest a lot. Essentially if you really want to compete with magic armies - like you've said with nagash - your board presence is an 10" bubble with 1" weapon range. And then you're still on even footing, so you still get dispelled. All other circumstances are not in your favor.
You don't need to win the magical arms race, you need to not be crippled by it before your explosion turn. Those are two very different things. After you've had that turn it's way to late for their magic to swing the game. Who cares what Nagash does if he's the only piece left on the board by the start of Turn 3.
240 points is nothing to invest in ensuring you get the cogs off and ensuring you can remove the shackles before your movement phase.
-
5
-
-
So the 2 weirdnob is because he is a powerhouse caster so competes at that level. As an example i faced a nagash list last weekend and was on an even footing with his +3.
I might not have been able to stop all his spells but I could pick key ones to try and unbind. Also it doesn't stop us being a 1 drop which is a huge boon.
Additionally it becomes easier to brute force through any unbinds the opponent might have, which given how key the cogs are is important.
I'd run 2 for several reasons.
1) unbinding key endless spells like the shackles.
2) if one dies you aren't screwed.
3) 2 unbinds instead of 1 is a much bigger deal than people realise.
4) FOOT OF GORK!!!! (I might have a problem...)
Essentially we are both reliant on the spells for mortals/cogs and vulnerable to the mortals from spells. The combination of the two makes having 2 weirdnobs very powerful for us in a way the fungoid/wurrgog aren't.
Not to mention the extra chance at an ironjawz move.
-
2
-
-
Allegiance: Ironjawz
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 7x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 13x Big Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
Bloodtoofs (120)
Ironfist (180)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 118
I would run something close to this.
-
3
-
-
6 hours ago, EddieWouldGo said:
Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)
Have you got a fungoid instead? He's close to strictly better.
-
I do put moves on them @PlasticCraic When your cabbage is going 14" and the pigs 11" before Ironfist with +4" on their charge you really don't need more movement on them.
As to the charging, Imagine your opponent has a line of 10 skinks, you destructive bulk at the end of the line so that you have 3/4 in 3" you inflict 4 casualties. Unless he wants to eat another destructive bulk he has to leave 1 model in range of the Cabbage, this means that somewhere down the 10 skink line there is now a 1 skink hole.
A low end charge roll for Ardboys would be a 4, which keeping a command point back to reroll almost guarantees that or better. So that's 10" you then have your ardboys charge through the 1 skink hole onto whatever is behind it and leave 1 or 2 trailing through his skink line. This pins the unit since he can't retreat and make coherency but it also gets your ardboys into whatevers behind. It gets harder if he has a larger unit or double lines them, but doing that increases his investment and reduces his screen width.
With a WC buff you're comfortably looking at 6 attacks per Ardboy on 3+/3+/-1/1, that blenders a lot of things.
If you roll a 10 on your charge, as I did in one game, you suddenly have 16" of movement to play with which might even let you just run round the screen.
It essentially boils down to having the smallest point of contact available for your cabbage forcing your opponent to play around it. Now obviously there are ways to stop it but every-time they do that you are further reducing the amount of board presence that they can achieve because they need more and more screening.
At some points it becomes better to just let your opponent go first and either mess up his screen or waste his first turn. The threat of it can be as powerful as pulling it off. Getting the Cogs off is mandatory though, without them you can't pull it off so Seraphon with their global unbind are a huge threat. That said if you can get an Arcane terrain piece you are looking at +3 on a weirdnob or +1 with a RR on a fungoid. Also depends on deployment zones etc.
-
1
-
-
2 hours ago, Skabnoze said:
I'm not saying that there is not going to be potential for counter-play. My point is that I think people will adapt to the concept of first-turn alpha strikes as a number of forces can now do this to various degrees. If that happens then it won't be a guaranteed thing to necessarily be able to cripple someone with that tactic. And of course it will depend upon what army they are playing as some will probably be able to better handle this than others.
I'm not saying it is a bad thing and everyone should forget about it. I'm just saying people will probably adapt and it won't be nearly as strong in many cases.
Which is why I said they will have to both screen and give up board position. They can't just throw a bunch of marauders out front, push stuff up behind it and then take the centre of the board as we can crack holes in it quite easily then flood through and maul the army. An example of that is the dude I played who screened with a wall of nighthaunt ghosts, I wiped them out with only the attacks of my MK and then the brutes got through onto his VLoZD. Or the 3 GG's killing off 31 skeles creating a massive hole in his ability to screen the rest of the army/objective.
The pure power which comes out of our Blitzkrieg now is enormous and when combined with the extra charge range we need only the tiniest of gaps to break through onto the key units.
This is why I think we are T1, because the threat of what we can do forces our opponent to play in a way which lets us claim then control objectives. Realistically our opponent needs to build a screen 2 units deep and then keep his entire army behind it which, combined with the various battleplans, basically hands us the objectives. More over the longer someone waits the more times we can alphastrike. When you add in that with a 1drop battalion we can easily force them to go first we can then fish for a double turn.
I'm not saying we are the best army out there, I am saying we are absolutely competitive with them. If someone doesn't build their list and then play directly to stop us we will roll them with no issues, even if they do it's still an even game.
EDIT:
2 hours ago, tchad78 said:You stole my CP! I've rolled 0 extra in 2 games.
Your donation to the better Megaboss was appreciated!
-
1
-
-
32 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:
This is assuming that someone has one big screen rather than a layer of smaller units. For example, a couple cheap units such as skinks or greenskin orcs.
But again, I think people will move towards tactics to mitigate the issue of getting punched in the face on the first turn.
It also assumes that we can't punch a hole in it with destructive bulk.
When you add +4 to a charge (or +6 for ardboys) suddenly the ability to get through a tiny hole created by those kills is increased drastically. Not to mention that if you charge correctly you can force your enemy to open a hole or let you get a second charge.
There's also the fact you don't even need to blow your load in one go which is vicious.
-
1
-
-
40 minutes ago, Imperial said:
I tryed last time with Goddrack. 2 GG with +2 hit and charge from 8" left Alariel 3 wound
Second chuka dont fit because of allies restriction (1 unit per 4 in main list) and orruk warboss with banner to good for many attacks from GG.
Drop it and take 3 more pigs if you can.
-
4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:
What... exactly are we doing with screening? I’ve been under the impression that “Ardboys are dead” so we just run brutes and GG?
Sorry it's that the opponent has to both screen you AND give up board position.
-
1 hour ago, PlasticCraic said:
@Malakree glad to hear it works so well! About time we had something a bit bent!
Can I ask what your opponents were? Was there any "unkillable" stuff you went up against (2+ RR1s), and if so how did that go? I guess because you went first, most stuff wouldn't have the buffs off, which helps a lot! Would you still bounce off a Staunch SC army?
I faced one stardrake and should have taken first turn but didn't. I also deployed wrong and got punished.
He didn't lantern his sc first turn so it was 2rr1 despite that 5 brutes took off 10 wounds. If I'd gotten the other 5 in it probably would have killed it.
I'm tempted to say prophet of the waaagh! Is better than ironclad for the list, you make so many rolls that fishing for the extra attacks is great.
Edit: @LewDog you use it in your hero phase. It then activates in your combat phase.
-
2
-
-
12 minutes ago, Jgroover said:
How did you get 8 waaagh rolls with 3 command points?
Aetherquartz Broach. Whenever you spend a CP you get it back on a 5+
So I had 4 and kept using the Waaagh! till I had 1 left. End result was 8 Waaagh!-
2
-
1
-
-
Just now, broche said:
@Malakree It's good for sure, but not sure it's better than other t1 army. Like DoK and Idoneth can still wreck you. You'll still have a hard time getting to a slann hiding behind 2 bastilladon and summoning stuff. It seem to me that there's still is lot of broken stuff lingering around
Oh no doubt, it definitely puts us in the T1 bracket of "obliterates any none T1 army" though. Where in T1 is questionable, mainly because of our vulnerability to Mortal Wound output, but if you go against someone using a suboptimal army or who makes a single mistake you can easily take them apart.
-
1
-
-
In case anyone was wondering
QuoteQ: Can I spend 2 or more command points to allow the same model to use the same command ability more than once in the same phase? A: Yes, unless specifically noted otherwise
QuoteQ: Can I use the Mighty Waaagh! and/or Waaagh! command abilities to affect the same unit more than once in the same phase? A: Yes.
In the latest FAQs. It's now official that a single Megaboss can Waaagh! until you run out of CP's.
QuoteP85 – Artefacts of Power, Relics of Hysh, Lens of Refraction Change the rules text to: ‘Once per battle round, the first time a friendly unit within 6" of the bearer suffers any mortal wounds inflicted by a spell or endless spell, roll a D3 and reduce the number of mortal wounds suffered by the roll.’
It was nice to actually have defences against spells while it lasted.
QuoteGeminids of Uhl-Gysh card, Tendrils of Shadow and Light Change the rules text to: ‘After the Shadow Geminid model has moved, each unit that has any models it passed across suffers D3 mortal wounds. In addition, subtract 1 (to a minimum of 1) from the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by each unit that has any models it passed across until the end of the battle round. A unit is not affected by the Shadow Geminid model if it has been passed across by the Light Geminid model earlier in the same battle round. After the Light Geminid model has moved, each unit that has any models it passed across suffers D3 mortal wounds. In addition, subtract 1 from hit rolls for each unit that has any models it passed across until the end of the battle round. A unit is not affected by the Light Geminid model if it has been passed across by the Shadow Geminind model earlier in the same battle round (a unit can be affected by one or other of the models each battle round, but not both).’
This is well needed!
QuoteQ: When one of my models piles in, if it is equally close to two different enemy models, do I have to finish the move as close or closer to each of those models? For example, if my model is in base contact with two enemy models, does it have to finish a pile-in move in base contact with both those models? A: Yes to both questions – if this is impossible the model cannot move.
So we are back to rotating around units using the same pre-AoS2 movements and pinning now happens with two models not one.
Overall
- Really sad about the loss of the Lens of Refraction. Especially since Aetherquatz Broach is still close to mandatory for a lot of our lists. (more on that below)
- Geminids we OP and thankfully they can no longer stack both Debuffs on us. Still sucks in combination with some of the other wizards though.
- The pile in ruling is god awful, it has in a lot of ways just reinstated the previous editions rules. There are differences but not sizeable.
- Multi-Waaagh! is disgusting although further consideration is given down below as to why it might be fine.
Multi-Waaagh!
So I used a list with this in at the throne of skulls tournament over the weekend and it's filth, I didn't expect it to be anywhere near as much filth as it actually is but it's just disgusting. Using Bloodtoofs you generally get to pick if you want turn 1 then casting Cogs gives you such a giant threat range. I'd say this build is really strong and the opponent HAS to move to counter it or you will really wreck them. Despite this, after consideration, I'm actually inclined to agree that it's not broken. Very strong, but not broken. If you do go off then it's one turns worth of huge explosive unstoppable power, or you can stagger it out to get several turns of powerful but not overwhelming strength.
The problem is that the Aetherquartz Broach exists.
In my final game, we ended up squaring up for a turn before I actually committed so I had 4 command points. I decided to keep my final CP back after I had spent 3 to get 8 Waaagh! running on my megaboss. My thought was "I can keep going and get at least 1 more attack but I'm not sure it matters" as it turns out it would have done if he had won priority turn 3 but even then I was going first so I had the wins doubles advantage. I rolled one 6 out of my 8 dice and got 9 extra attacks with my entire army. On my first command point I got 4 Waaagh! running. That means with no battalions the Broach would have given me a free 3, it is such a horrific artefact for us that it's mandatory for every Ironjawz army that's even thinking about using the Waaagh.
My unit of 3 pigs then proceeded to kill 31 skeletons despite a 5+(4+ vs no rend) save followed by 6++, 6++ against the individual wounds. Earlier in the tournament I killed 27 skeletons with them in a single turn with him having 6(5)+ rerolling 1s as his save.
The smallest number of additional attacks I got out of my Waaagh! turn was 5 and I held a command point back in most games in case I needed to reroll a key failed charge.
With the state of the game as it is right now as long as you aren't terrible, like me, Ironjawz are easily T1. Unless your opponent makes some very serious considerations with regards to countering what we are doing with screening AND giving up board position you can essentially remove them from the board T1 or T2.
Long story short, the Broach is Overpowered as all sin and mandatory for us until it's nerfed.
-
1
-
2
-
17 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:
I guess you could take allies for a few ogres, but are there any ogres mages in the whole game?
Firebelly would be perfect, butcher is also an ogre mage.
-
@Durnaxe do you need to keep the units as you go up points or can you completely change your list?
Going for wc2 you could pick up some gitmob rock lobbers, you get 1 per 4 units total and are 100 points each.
-
1 hour ago, Izikail said:
Does a weird first realisticaly need a mbmk. Im trying to not store that massive size of the mk if i can, but within faction it fills a unique roal
No, the cabbage works for two things.
- Mortal wound output and big damage with good rend.
- The Mighty Waaagh! ability.
With a weirdfist you are trying to get the MW output from the shaman instead so it's less relevant. While on the other side of it a 140 points Footboss or Warboss on Boar (greenskinz) can fill the Waaagh! roll easily. In a lot of ways you're less reliant on the shock power that a cabbage brings.
-
One thing is you can only have 5 units in the ironfist, I would suggest merging two of the gg squads so you have a unit of 6 then make that the bosses unit.
Take ironclad and miasmatic blade (ulgu 1) on the cabbage. It will make him super hard for the dorfs to kill because he's limited on spells.
Grab a sword of judgment (ulgu 6 weapon) for the lulz to turn him into the ultimate heroslayer (and monster) with 2 warchanter buffs on him.
It's a bit tailored towards the dispossessed but it's super close to what I'm running next week at bobo so it's not totally tech'd for them.
-
2 hours ago, ChatBatFun said:
Has anyone used big stabbas as allies? just to help with monsters.
Ironjawz have Brutes which are disgustingly good at killing monsters so it's kind of a none issue.
EDIT: That said they may actually be very useful for dealing with RR2+ saves. Problem is they are a bit over expensive for the limited number of attacks and don't have any internal synergy with the rest of the Ironjawz.
2 attacks at 4+/3+ means that for 100 points your opponent is averaging 1 save at -2 for 3 damage. So 200 points to inflict 2 saves at -2 for 6 damage total. On the other hand Brutes are 180 points whose boss with the Waaagh! buff will inflict ~+1.5 saves at -2 for D3 damage with just his smasha then you get the rest of the unit.
On paper they look nice but I think that we are better off putting those points into Brutes instead.
AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
@Andrew G I like the idea, honestly though I think if I were going to run what you are I'd go with an Ardfist instead. Your list is very hard to shift and the Ardfist is potentially 450 points returning to the board.
Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
- Allies
Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
Battalions
Ardfist (170)
Endless Spells
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 186
This isn't quite the list you were running but it's very similar, the main thing is the loss of the aetherquartz Broach, changing 5 brutes --> 10 Ardboys and Ironfist --> Ardfist. Plus you get 30 points for the prismatic palisade to potentially ****** some shooting over.
If you desperately wanted to keep the broach you could swap the Ignax's Scales for Daubing of Mork on him which would let you have the Broach on the second WC instead.