Malakree

What are peoples opinions on the Shaman since it doesn't stack with the Sludgeraker. Would you still take both, does having a Sludgeraker make the 2nd/3rd shaman less good in peoples opinion?

Problem is thats not really consistent the ironjawz lore. Orruks get bigger and stronger as they flight and win, so the ardboys are aspirants to become brutes. What you're describing is the Kruleboyz.

Important to point out that the gnashtooth is a mount so it can take Fast Un, Weird Un and Smelly Un, it's a free bonus if you aren't running any other mounted units for some reason. EDIT: Just a thought while I'm browsing here to see what people thing about the various Kruleboyz stuff

So getting a better look at some of the warscrolls etc. after getting my battletome this morning. Morgok's Krushas are not bad for 90points. Makes them 5 points more expensive than Ardboys, 9 wounds not 10 but the attacks characteristics are so much better. Not to mention they get the +1 to hit against 4+ wounds. On the other hand Ironskull's boyz are mental. Basha and Hakka are both just better versions of ardboys. They get +1 to hit and have -1 rend in addition. Bonekutta has 1 less attack but gets +1 damage and -1 rend. Gurzag has a mental 5 attacks, 3+/3+/1/1. He's strictly better than a prenerf Ardboys boss. The real icing on the top though is the unit wide 6+ ward save which goes to 5+ for Gurzag. Sure you lose a model and 2 wounds but they are even 5 points cheaper than standard ardboys!

Yeah you'll just have to deal with having all your arti in combat with goregruntas thus unable to ever shoot the MKs.

Combat phase. You can't unleash hell outside of the charge phase.

Brutes are superior offensively with both great damage and a bonkers ability. Ardboys are better defensively because of greater wounds, model count and the ward save. Personally I wouldn't rate units of 5 Brutes but units of 10 are awesome. Units of 10 ardboys on the other hand are a tanky pain in the ****** and the rally bonus is nuts. IMO 10ardboys > 5 Brutes. 10 Brutes > 15 ardboys.

It doesn't need the orruk keyword, just the Kruleboyz keyword. Same way hobgrots aren't orruks but have the Kruleboyz keyword. It just means they won't benifit from the venom weapons.

Just checked, actually correct. I suspect it'll be errata'd real quick but atm you can't run it in a Kruleboyz army.

It specifically says Orruk Warclans units so it doesn't discount things like the Megagargant allies.

@Gothmaug @Jabbuk@Smash @Lanoss To quote the Rulebook It literally says no.

Obviously it is but I could see a few games over the past ~2 months where if I'd been able to do that it would have won me the game.

Retreat in your movement phase, start of their hero phase you rally MK is riptooth, honestly though for the cabbage I've never had any problem with it being what I say it is, 90% of people can't even tell which weapon is what. Brutes are the 2handed spears and you use them in blocks of 10. Gore-gruntas the general consensus is the Choppas but it isn't a massive difference, if there's an aesthetic preference you have it's not going to make a noticeable impact.

I guess, analysing my own thoughts on it (EDIT: self reflection here), if I'm taking arcane tome it's for mystic shield/lifeswarm, on that basis I'd rather have a hail mary which might win me an otherwise unwinable situation than an efficiency boost. So personal preference wise I'm not expecting to use whatever the "extra" spell is that often since I'd just pick mystic shield instead. Might be more inclined towards flaming weapon if we got MD hero phase fight back. Rally is either hero phase. So even if you lose prio you can use it at the start of their hero phase, with getting models back on a 4+ on a unit of 15 with 1 left you're looking +7 models which is mad.

If I'm not casting Mystic Shield or Lifeswarm I want something that is guna get me out of a massive hole in the group. Anyone who has had foot of gork do 50+ wounds in one cast knows what I'm talking about.

I think the idea is that a Wurrgog Prophet would never joined a clan of Ironjawz, the only situation that happens is when they start forming together into a Big Waaagh! in that way Ironjawz would never actually be "allies" they are either a united force or two separate forces. There's also the fact that from a rules perspective each faction keeps one of the core aspects of their theme so Big Waaagh is no longer a single homogenous force but rather a gathering of the different powers into unified front. So very dumb, still don't think I'd want it over foot of gork. If I'm casting a cheap ability it's going to be mystic shield or emerald lifeswarm

That's what I meant. If I can't get 1 drop then I'm aiming for 4/5. I refuse to run an IJ list without 2 WC so I'll have enough heroes to get the extra artefact if I can't 1 drop. I'll probably stick to double MK lists till I finish my next 10/15 Brutes. After that it's probably one of these. Allegiance: Da ChoppasLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)- Boss Gore-hacka and ChoppaOrruk Warchanter (120)Orruk Warchanter (120)Battleline10 x Orruk Brutes (300)- Pair of Brute Choppas- Reinforced x 110 x Orruk Brutes (300)- Pair of Brute Choppas- Reinforced x 110 x Orruk Brutes (300)- Pair of Brute Choppas- Reinforced x 110 x Orruk Ardboys (190)- Reinforced x 13 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)- Pig-iron ChoppasTotal: 1995 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 152Drops: 1 Allegiance: Da ChoppasLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)- Boss Gore-hacka and ChoppaOrruk Warchanter (120)Orruk Warchanter (120)Orruk Weirdboss (160)- arcane tome Battleline10 x Orruk Brutes (300)- Pair of Brute Choppas- Reinforced x 110 x Orruk Brutes (300)- Pair of Brute Choppas- Reinforced x 115 x Orruk Ardboys (285)- Reinforced x 25 x Orruk Ardboys (95)5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)Endless Spells & InvocationsEmerald Lifeswarm (60)Total: 2030 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Wounds: 144Drops: 4 First is obviously a 1 drop while the 2nd is 4 to get the arcane tome so the footboss becomes a weirdboss. I think every list I write now will be 1 drop, 4 drop or not have a battle regiment. IMO if you are going for a 2 drop you should just man up and go for the 1 drop or just take the enhancement powerspike. Otherwise you're doing both while getting the benefits of neither.

I personally think I'll always be aiming for 1 or 4/5 with the question being whether to take the extra drop for the warlord cp. I actually found that a cabbage without the damage build was just not enough of a threat to justify it's points. I ran big Waaagh! because it provided the 6++ which let me go damage with everything else. Since the damage has been rolled into it's base stats I now think the defensive artefacts are worth it. Can flaming weapon go on mount attacks? I'd grab the arcane tome. Mortal wound cast command trait and foot of gork. I'd be really tempted by that in big Waaagh with big G so I can be more blazee with my general.

Swapping 2" move for a 6++ and +1 to hit isn't actually that bad the moment amulet of destiny is off the table. I agree that fast un has a bunch of really interesting option it provides and offsets the loss of that 2" by what is essentially a 10" move if I desperately need to do the turn 1 alpha.

Because my first mawkrusha has the amulet of destiny 🤣 it means I get ward saves on both cabbages and can somewhat offset the move penalty with fast un. Essentially if I'm running a cabbage it has amulet of destiny, thus it's only actually a question as to what do I take on my 2nd cabbage 😁 This was actually my point, there are actually several upsides to the spears in terms of usability in 6s. Just because you can do the crazy formation in theory doesn't mean it can happen in games. There are always going to be choke points etc. Where what you're actually doing is gaining 6 attacks from the back row rather than 4 from the front. Combined with the bonus to impact mortals at 6s it's not strictly worse. Even in 3s I'd say it's only marginally worse.

Yeah i know, I didn't bother to update the points etc but that's why it's 130 points under, because it's 2k with the new points 😉

I think I'd rather just take the fast un +armour of gork combo if that's the alternative. Thus reason I might consider the foot of gork is the raw potential it gives. Anyone who used it preremoval has had those games where it decides the opponent doesn't need their stuff. Flaming weapon isn't in that league when you consider that the boss is now secondary to the mk fists. Something that's not true before the book release.

One point is that with so many heafty casters dominating the meta atm relying on spells to do stuff is just asking to get dumped on.

This is 2000 points, 3 shots each in bonegrinz, be an absolute nightmare to remove them all. Also worth noting that the maniak weirdnob can actually take a mount trait because the monster keyword is only a prerequisite for 3 of the 6 mount traits.

Personally I value mortal wounds quite highly especially given the current save environment. I also value damage which comes out in unusual phases, as it allows for shenanigans. My point is that it's not as cut and dry as you are making it seem, especially in bloodtoofs armies with units of 6. I considered the arcane cabbage mainly to be able to cast lifeswarm and then took foot because it's foot of gork. Did NOT consider the +cast command trait, That's awesome.