Malakree

Man I'm really eating my own words on the whole Brute thing aren't I, going to try 2 blocks of 15 ardboys next week just to see how I feel about it but those Brutes seem to be doing a ton of work for people.

Mainly it's my go to because all the stuff is just good and the CA is amazing. Bloodtoofs is less generically good and more good for specifics, it doesn't help that some of it's stuff is either bad or flat doesn't work like the effect which requires a realmgate on the board.

If anything it might apply even more so as coherency didn't change at 5s and is super restrictive at 10s.

If you've already got 5 with one of the weapon types I'd make the next 5 with them so that you can run it as a block of 10. Realistically though you should wait for the next book to drop.

As smashing and bashing is the last applied thing it takes precedence over any other effect which would contradict it.

The hunters battalion. 1 per hero phase and 1/2 from the start of the round is 3/4 base per round. Adding a 50% chance to get a single CP which might be first or second turn in the round just feels unreliable, hence my use of the term mediocre rather than useless. I specifically downgraded to a fungoid over a 2nd weirdnob for the CP generation/triumph and it was a mistake. I could have made way better use of the extra faction spell.

Just did a one day tournament yesterday. There were 2 Ironjawz players there, both using ironsunz. The other player finished middle of the ranks while I managed to come in an impressive last place due to my supreme tactical skills which involved charging a mawkrusha into gotrek for some reason. We had two very different lists, I had double MK with 2wc, weirdnob, fungoid, 3/3pigs 5/5ardboys. He had an MK, some heroes and 30 Brutes. I had a couple of takeaways based on both my own gameplay and the general things I was hearing from the other players. Ridiculous rend or Mortal Wounds are required - I managed to get a mawkrusha to +3 to save ignoring the first rend. You needed a rend of 4 to get it off a 2+. This sort of thing seemed to be not uncommon across the tables, I was hearing tales of a Nagash that had a 2+ save vs -2 rend while rerolling 1s to save. The other way to deal with it is just overwhelming quantity which sadly we don't really do. Brutes are actually not bad - Anyone who is vaguely familiar with me knows I loath Brutes, their overcosted, slow and really situational. Thing is that the situation in which they are good is the situation we are in, monsters are running around everywhere and 5+ wound models went way up in value. CP generation feels really mediocre - I'll be honest, this one surprised me. It's a combination of a few things, CP's not carrying over means that things like the fungoid, which trigger in your hero phase, are really awkward as if you go 2nd then they don't even carry over to your opponents turn, as a result the reliability has tanked a bunch. Combine that with being unable to use the same CA twice, one CA per unit and the amount that get thrown at you anyway suddenly the 2/3 you do generate are less important. Amulet of Destiny is Broken - Seriously, it's dumb. Next one day is next week I think and I'm going to try swap out the Ironsunz and 2nd MK to go Ironclad, Amulet of Destiny and Weird Un. Don't make stupid charges - Pretty obvious one I know, sadly orruk see charge, orruk make charge. The overwatch ability means you get punished even harder and realistically you need to be charging in your hero phase or doing multiple charges in a single turn. Personally I see there being a couple of different playstyles, double MK leaning towards an alphastrike style, I'll probably try using this next. My other thoughts are Wrath of Gork MSU ardboys in Big Waaagh with the most stable being the more traditional, single MK with large infantry board presence. Will be interesting to see how things pan out as I hopefully have several lined up over the next couple of weeks to try different things!

I was to busy wondering if I can con someone else to buy him for me off their sub, or if I actually WANT the sub myself

The spots are really cool!

Sorry did you say tripple cabbage, right you are! Just need to finish painting the third and jobs a good 'un. Need to get it done before july 10th so I can use it at thwg 1 day event!!!

The issue being that you do your kills then your damage goes through. So if you do 10 damage and break coherency that 10 damage is going on what they lose to coherency.

There is a video somewhere of how to magnetise the megagargants so that you can swap between them easily.

If in base to base it will. That base size is a fraction smaller than 6"

The new rules only apply to units with 6+ models.

You can't take split weapons. The whole squad has the same weapon choice. Oh and it should be dual wield.

There are no rules at all which take battlefield roles away from a unit unless it has a conditional battlefield role that is satisfied, ie. something becoming battleline if x general is taken. As none of the battlefield roles are conditional it means they are all active all the time.

Uh in the setup I'm talking about they would have to be able to remove 2 models to cause an issue and it has plenty of give to get back into coherency easily? My current guess is that the points included are the ones which will be in the new warclans book not for our current units. Until that book comes out brutes are so niche it's unreal.

On ardboy bases it's not difficult just really fiddly. It's brute base size where it becomes realistically impossible. If the enemy forms any sort of line I can get 90%+ of ardboys in melee range. It's really not as hard or complicated as people think.

If you do the math Brute units with 2" reach weapons are just bad. They are Ardboys with 1 extra attack. I'll do the run down again. 15 Ardboys are 285 points to 10 Brutes at 300, Ardboys require 2 reinforcements while Brutes only need 1. You're essentially paying 15 points for 1 reinforcement slot. Brutes have 3 wounds each, 10 of them is 30. Ardboys have 2 wounds each so 15 is 30. Both have a 4+ save. Ardboys get 2 Shields per 5. That's 6 shields at 15 which equates to ~2 extra wounds. Ardboys have about 62 effective wounds. Brutes have 60 effective wounds. Ardboys have bravery 8 due to the banner. Brutes have bravery 6. Ardboys have a 3" -1 bravery aura around their glyphs. Ardboys get +2 to charge. At 6 wounds Ardboys are on bravery 6 and Brutes are on bravery 5. It takes 8 wounds to go through before Brutes and Ardboys have the same bravery rolls. Ardboys get 32 attacks at 1"/3+/3+/-1/1 Dual Choppa Brutes get 28 attacks at 1"/3+/3+/-1/1 2h Brutes get 21 attacks at 2"/3+/3+/-1/1 All Brutes get 10 attacks at 2"/4+/3+/-1/2 I ignored the boss choppa/Klaw question because it's so tiny it doesn't matter. Brutes get +1 hit against 4+ wounds On average you should get a boss, 2 gore choppa and 4/5 dual choppa brutes in because of their base size. This compares to a boss, 2 gorechoppa and 7 2h brutes. For the Brutes that puts ~20 attacks from normal brutes as your reasonable number. Giving this graph Comparatively for Ardboys the smaller base size means you should be getting ~12 including the boss into melee range. (Personally I'd be expecting to get 14/15 into range but that requires some real obnoxious unit formation) That's 26 attacks. So against opponents with no save (the better situation for brutes) you're looking around 4 extra damage without the +1 to hit and around 10 if you do have it. Brutes vs Ardboys Conclusion Brutes have a slightly higher damage output normally which increases to a sizable amount if the target has 4+ wounds. Brutes are also slower, more expensive, have less effective wounds, less objective presence and are more vulnerable to battleshock. Brutes are better in damage but are significantly worse in every other way. GG's 40 points more expensive Over double the speed Count for 2 models on objectives Significantly more resilient against battleshock, they have to take 10 wounds to even have to take one. Expected 4 in combat. (I did a post on the stupid as formation on the board that gives you 6 pretty reliably but again it's obnoxious). Impact hits ~2 mortals on the charge 17 attacks at 1"/3+/3+/-1/1 and 16 attacks at 1"/4+/4+/-/1 +1 to hit/wound on the secondary attacks if they charged. So gg's are really close in damage to Brutes especially considering that this is only 4 of them. Overall As it was a while ago, if you want infantry to stand and hold you take Ardboys. If you want a hammer you take gg's. The only reason to take brutes anymore is if you need the reinforcement slot, which is admittedly something which might come up if you want to go 6/6 ggs and 10/10 brutes.

Taker tribe with the take 2 artefacts trait. Take the tribe artefact on the general and the time on tour 2nd garg. 2 wizard SoB!

Kraggies warscroll specifically states he is your general even if he's not so that wouldn't matter anyway I mean the Mega's all getting the Battleline roll as well is pretty amazing for that, SoB auto fills it's battleline requirements for free because it's almost impossible to make an army which doesn't have 3 units in it. EDIT: The ability to take him in any allegiance is actually on his warscroll so it's not changed in anyway. Only difference would be if he gains the Orruk Warclans keyword or not.

Enhancements are only unlocked with two of the battalions you can't access. You're limited to the one drop battalion only, each Mega can include Mancrushers in their drops, or the GBH battalion which is Mancrushers only. SoB got buggered hard by the core battalions. EDIT: Note Also really worth pointing out just how good the new universal artefacts/spell lore is for Gargants. Arcane tome means you can make any mega a wizard without being taker tribe, Flaming Weapon is +1 damage to one of the wizards weapons, while Levitate lets you have flying gargants. The idea of a unit of 3 flying Mancrushers is pretty funny tbh.

You can't use Linebreaker as Mancrushers aren't behemoths. The only core battalion available is the battle regiment since you only have access to Commanders and Troops. EDIT: The GBH battalion for Troops only is also an option.

Ardboys and Brutes are pretty close in terms of usefulness. You can now get 15 Ardboys for 285, compared to 10 Brutes for 300 points. I did a whole comparison before but basically 15 Ardboys are slightly better than 10 Brutes if you have a warchanter buff on them. Brutes only started getting better than Ardboys when Ardboys went up to 100 (from 90) and Brutes came down to 130 (from 140). With a huge points difference now means that for infantry Ardboys are way more cost efficient than Brutes. Then on the other end of it you had the hammer units, Brutes vs Goregruntas. GG's are just so much more versatile than Brutes especially now that they count as 2 models for objectives. If I were looking for a more "sane" list it would be more like this. This gives you basically everything you want, the stupid new shackles and is only 5 drops.

Troggboss didn't go up at all and rockguts were are only 5 points extra. Relatively they did pretty damn well!