WatcherintheWater
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Posts posted by WatcherintheWater
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@ForrixThanks!
@Dead Scribe Yeah. Agreed that if you are just worried about being as competitive as possible, you should just go with the small base. I like to play somewhat competitively, and sometimes go to tournaments, but I'm not worried about squeezing every last drop out of my list. For me the 40mm base just looks cooler, and I don't think it should make that much difference (especially if you keep him partly wrapped in allied units).
Sounds like no one can really think of reasons an opponent would object to the bigger base.
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@EldarainThat's what I was thinking too. Sort of wish they just made that big base his official one.
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How are people handling the 2 different size bases? Magnets?
I was thinking about just using the 40 because it looks cool. I’m guessing most people would be fine with that.
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2 hours ago, Nicholunch said:
My two cents... There is a precariously set comma that makes me think it's read: one of your units within 3" can pile in and attack, or shoot as if the shooting phase. That comma makes me think the shooting is not tied to the 3". But I could easily be wrong
Badly needs an FAQ. I've always played it as the shooting also has to be within 3", but it could really go either way. I just tend to default to using the less powerful version when it's a toss up. I actually think it might be a little too good otherwise. If you buff the pistols & skyhooks on a unit of 40 Arkanauts it's putting out 48 Skyhook shots & 170 pistol shots that turn, which is insane!
If I was against an enemy that didn't have 3" reach in combat, I would sometimes put my 40 man unit 2.5" behind the front of my screens to try and get within 3" while staying safe.
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@sal4m4nd3rWelcome! Looks like a a super fun list. I think the biggest challenge will be keeping your big blob of 40 Arkanauts safe while still playing the objectives game. With only 4 units (not counting the heroes) you might struggle against armies that can out drop you and make a first turn charge, since Arkanauts die fast. Although if they go first, you can smash Gotrek into them when it's your turn!
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4 hours ago, michu said:
Skaven. Low fantasy. Choose one.
We have laser cannons and giant deadly hamster wheels. Nothing "low fantasy" in that.
LOL. Fair. I was thinking of a Skaven list that is mostly clan rats/plague monks/stormverman, with some heroes wizards, and a few War Machines. In that case most of the army is roughly the size and power level of a normal human. Contrast that with Stormcast or BCR where every model is some sort of larger than life character.
On the other hand Clan Skyre is about as high fantasy as it gets.
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I like both. From a "realism" & lore point of view, I think it's easier to get into low fantasy. Not to make it a WHFB vs AoS thing, but the characters in low fantasy novels are generally more relateable. I really liked the almost history book style of some of the old WHFB Army Books, too.
However, for a hobby, I think the high fantasy setting works better. Like many posters said, the amount of freedom you get is awesome, and gives you so much opportunity for customization and creativity. I think it also works better on the tabletop. For a WHFB battle to feel epic, you needed at least 100 models, because the majority of armies were just infantry (some armies had way than 100). Because of the scale & power of the new models (also maybe because you don't have to rank up any more), a game of AoS can feel like a huge fight with half the figures on the table. As a slow painter I appreciate that.
I think the AoS setting can easily support both types of armies, even if it's mostly high fantasy so far. I think the Skaven and Gloomspite both somewhat fill the low fantasy role, if you want to build them that way and Cities of Sigmar likely will too.
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58 minutes ago, Dekison said:
i was acutally going to ask - can we even use him? whats the penalty? etc - i feel like he should be more in touch with the old dwarces that survived rather then the new breed of fyreslyaers
We can use him as an ally. Any Order army can. However he takes up your whole ally allowance, so everything else has to be pure KO.
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Anyone come up with a decent KO & Gotrek list? I don't think he really fits our army very well, but the best I thought of was a gunline list something like this:
- Gotrek
- 2 Khemists
- 10, 20 & 40 Arkanauts
- 9 Endrinriggers
2K on the dot. The two smaller units of Arkanauts bubble wrap the army and keep everything else safe for the first couple turns. When your enemy gets close you push Gotrek into them, while the 40 man unit keeps shooting. Endrinriggers can counter charge where needed, or use Grapnels to go claim objectives in turns 3-5. Think it's to slow to be a competitive list, and you probably need some sort of combat unit to stick with Gotrek to prevent your opponent from getting to many attacks against him, which we don't have.
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12 hours ago, stratigo said:
It doesn't sound very fun. "You have to play perfectly, but even if you do, hope you get a double turn".
Don't think I would agree with that. Slaanesh are really a strong, and you probably need a double turn to shut off their summoning, but if you play well you can win without the double through smart positioning & playing the objectives. I definitely made some mistakes in my deployment the game that I lost. When I played Slaanesh again in game 3, I lost every priority roll, and my opponent summoned on 2 new Keepers (and could have summoned more if the game went to turn 5), but I still won the game.
I think KO can compete with almost any army now (way different than how things were a few months ago), but it's still a dice game. Every game is going to have 8 or 9 really important dice rolls (priority, long charges, important spells) that could go either way. If most of those big rolls go against you, and it's a match up of two good armies, you have to really outplay your opponent to win. I didn't do that in my loss.
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On 9/8/2019 at 10:14 PM, stratigo said:
Man your second game really reads like "Yeah I was winning pretty solidly until my opponent got a free 360 points". That's almost 20 percent more points than you are even allowed to bring. That's bloody nuts.
Slaanesh summoning is really good. I think it is the best there is currently. We have the tools to take out heroes as efficiently as any army in the game, but if your opponent is running max heroes (like pretty much every decent Slaanesh list does), you pretty much need a double turn to get them all, because he can keep bringing new ones on! It requires us to be really thoughtful with deployment and movement to make sure they can't summon onto objectives.
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I went to a local 3 game tournament a couple weeks ago and thought I would share my write up. I like to do these after going to an event, because it helps me think about the games, and what I can do to become a better player.
My List: Barak-Zilfin
SpoilerAdditional Footnotes: There’s no trading with some people & These are just guidelines
· 2x Khemists (general with Stickler for the Code and the Earbuster)
· 2x10 Arkanaut Company
· 40 Arkanaut Company
· 12 Endrinriggers w 3 Grapnels
· 1 Frigates (one with the deepstrike artifact) – deployed off the board with the Endrinriggers, 1 Khemist, and a small company every game.
· 30 Longbeards
Game 1 (Knife to the Heart)
SpoilerOpponent’s List: Tallyband of Nurgle – Great Unclean One, 2 Plaguebearer heroes, 2x10 & 2x30 Plaguebearers, 3 Plague Drones, Tallyband Battalion (1 drop, heals heroes, and returns slain Plaguebearers)
Deployment: He dropped his whole army at once, putting the GUO, and his other heroes towards his left (all right/left from my perspective) corner near the objective, one unit big and one small unit of Plaguebearers on each side of them, and the Drones near the center of his side. I put my big Company and a small company on my objective, with one Khemist, and the Longbeards making a wall around them. Frigate in the sky
Summary: He took turn 1 and pushed his GUO forward, while spreading out the Plaguebearers to block out my deepstrike options. The Plaguebearer heroes followed along with the units to stay in buff range. No charges made. I dropped my frigate near his right board corner (only open spot that wasn’t behind my own lines). The big company shot off one of his small heroes and a drone, and my Endrinriggers grapneled closer to his objective and took out one of his small Plaguebearer units. I won the turn 2 roll, shot off the drones, and grapneled my Endrinriggers to his objective taking another of his heroes down to 1 wound left, and destroying most of one of his big Plaguebearer units. In his turn he had to move back to his objectives, but through magic, the GUO, and remaining Plaguebearers was able to do enough to battleshock off my Endrinriggers.
I gave him turn 3. He charged one large and one small Plaguebearer unit into the Longbeards, where they got stuck the rest of the game., and summoned some new units to block off his objective. At this point it looked unlikely that either of us could get a major win, so I shot all my skyhooks into his GUO, but left it on just a couple wounds left. He won the turn 4 roll, and ran most of his stuff away from me, but couldn’t get enough targets out of range, so I just had to shoot down one hero to take the minor, since there wasn’t time left for round 5. Minor Win
Takeaways:
· Not sure how I could have gotten a major here. His army just had too many bodies, and too much durability for me to take his objective unless he decided to play really agressively. However, that also meant that he didn’t have enough punch to get through my lines, and I had more than enough shooting to get the minor on kill points.
· I probably didn’t need to go for the GUO on turn 3. It was too tough to bring down in one round, and had a ton of healing. Would have been better to just take out his small units & heroes.
Game 2 (Total Conquest)
SpoilerOpponent’s List: Slaanesh – 2 Keeper of Secrets, 3 Heroes on Chariots, Contorted Epitome, 3x5 Hellstrider Calvary, all the heroes were part of a battalion that gave him extra depravity points.
Deployment: He put his everything right on his front line, Keepers to my right with one unit of cavalry, Chariots, the rest of the cavalry and the Epitome towards my left. I strung my longbeards out one inch off the line, put a small company on my left objective, the big company on my right with a Khemist, and my loaded Frigate in the sky.
Summary: He took the turn, pushed everything forward, and made a bunch of long charges (some of which I think he shouldn’t have been able to make), getting both Keepers, 2 Chariots, and 2 units of cavalry into my Longbeards, and whipping them out, but he did leave his back left objective unclaimed. I dropped my ship behind him to the right, and shot off both keepers, rearranged my small company to block some of his units from getting to my big company next turn, and got the Endrinriggers into his calvary unit on his right objective, taking them out and claiming it.
He won the turn 2 roll, charged 2 of his chariots into my big Arkanaut unit, and between that and magic took out 30 or so, but I was able to remove casualties in such a way that only one chariot got to attack (cost me half my skyhooks though). The rest of his units destroyed the small company on near my left objective. In my turn, I moved my Frigate into position to take his unclaimed objective in the following turn. I moved my Endrinriggers over to help try and help what remained of the big company shoot off his 2 closest chariots, killed one, and charged the other with my Endrinriggers. Luckily, he failed his roll to make me fight last, and they took out the remaining one. I was actually up on VPs at this point, but he won the priority roll, killed my Endrinriggers, and the Khemist in my deployment zone, summoned on a Keeper which charged and destroyed my Arkanauts and Khemist that had dropped with the Frigate (taking that objective), and summoned a chariot onto his still unclaimed objective. We called it at that point, since he had 3 objectives, and I had almost nothing left to take them back with. Major Loss
Takeaways:
· When you set up, make sure you measure how far is between your units and your opponents, and know how far apart they should be based on the scenario. This was my biggest takeaway from the tournament. That way, you should know exactly what your opponent needs to make a turn 1 charge. For example in this scenario, the closes units can start is just under 23”, so if I put my furthest forward units 1” off my front line, and he moves 14” (most of his stuff did), he should need a 10 to charge me. However, when he he actually measured how far he needed to complete the charge it was only 8” (and he rolled a bunch of 8s & 9s). This means that one of us set our deployment further than we should have or he accidentally moved a little more than 14” in his move phase. Not saying any of this was intentional. It’s easy to just be off by an inch or two when you deploy and move, and it could have been me who set up my zone wrong. If I had known the scenario specifications and measured how far away he was during deployment all that could have been avoided.
· Against an army this fast, you have to be more thoughtful of how to deploy. What I should have done is dropped my Longbeards just over 26” away from him, meaning that he couldn’t get a turn 1 charge. Since I know he can’t make it on turn 1, I could put my big Company unit right behind them, and get Skyhooks in range (with their 4” move) if he gave me turn 1.
Game 3 (Focal Points)
SpoilerOpponent’s List: Slaanesh – 2 Keeper of Secrets, Contorted Epitome, Infernal Enrapturess, & 3x30 Deamonettes
Deployment: I spread out across his deployment zone, from my left to right, he had, 2 units of Deamonettes, a Keeper, The Epitome, another Keeper, Deamonettes, Enrapturess. I put my Longbeards just over 6” off my front line, so that with the terrain in the way he couldn’t get a turn 1 charge, small company behind them near the left objective, big company similarly positioned by the right with the Khemist, Frigate in the sky.
Summary: I gave him the turn, and he just rearranged his line to get out of 28” Skyhook range. I moved up my Longbeards to position to score the center objective next turn, move the Companies forward to take my 2 objectives and get into shooting range next turn, and dropped my frigate and piled everything out 9” away from the right side of his line. That group shot off his Enrapturess, and the Endrinriggers charged the flank of his Deamonette unit, staying out of range of his Keeper fight last debuff. Between combat and battleshock they destroyed the Deamonettes, and scored that objective (4-2). He won the turn 2 roll (he won all the priority rolls this game), killed my Endrinriggers with magic & his two Keepers, and sent everything else surging forward, getting his Epitome near the middle objective. I shot off both keepers, ran my Longbeards into range of the middle objective, and pushed my Frigate, Khemist, & Company that started in the boat to re-take his right objective (10-6).
He summoned a new keeper 9” away from my units on his right objective, but failed the charge. Both remaining Deamonette units went into my Longbeards, with some slipping through the 1” gaps in their line to attack my other small Company, killing over half the Longbeards and a couple Arkanauts, and taking my left objective. In my turn I retreated the survivors arranging them into a line to prevent him from getting his big units into my big company. My Frigate moved 26” onto his left objective, while my other small Company & Khemist got situated on his right objective. I wanted to get rid of his remaining 2 Heroes (Keeper & Epitome), but left the Keeper on 4 wounds remaining (16-8). He charged his big units into my last screen, taking out my remaining small company, and leaving me with just a few Longbeards left. His Keeper charged my Khemist & Company on his right objective, but thanks to the Khemist debuff, left one Arkanaut and the Khemist still alive and holding the objective. In my turn I just had to do a little retreating onto objectives to go up by more points than he could score on turn 5 even, so we called it. Major Win
Takeaways:
· Don’t be afraid of retreating, especially if you can retreat to keep your screens alive a little longer, or get onto objectives. I think I made 5 retreats in this game.
· One thing to be aware of is where summoning can happen. I could probably have been a little more precise with placing my units to make it tougher for him to summon a unit and charge onto the objective even if they make the 9” roll.
Final thoughts:
Spoiler· 2 wins & 1 loss. Finished 5th of 12.
· Still not sure about what artefact is best. Didn’t use the Earbuster successfully once. I might try the command point re-generation one next.
· Precise deployment is vital vs fast armies.
· When my game 3 opponent charged my Longbeards, and then piled his Deamonettes through the 1” gaps between models, I realized I could do the same with my Arkanauts & Longbeards. That opens some interesting options during deployment. For example, if you knew your opponent couldn’t make a turn 1 charge, you could actually deploy the big Arkanaut unit in front of the longbeards, and move them through on turn 1 to bubblewrap.
· 12 Endrinriggers feels like a little overkill. 9 would probably do almost as well. Not sure what I would replace them with though. I don't really want to increase my drops, or I might try a Knight Azyros. 3 shooty Endrinriggers or Skywardens to pop out of the ship and then scatter towards objectives while taking lucky shots at heroes might be useful.
· Only remembered to take pictures of my 1st and 3rd games. Both pictures taken some time during turn 1.
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15 hours ago, Garamond said:
Does anyone use heavy skyhooks on their ships?
The ability to move closer seems interesting, but despite trying, I can't find a good use for it. Instead I always wish I had just taken the cannon for D6 damage.
I've always used the Cannon. The skyhook is to undependable to make a plan that relies on it, while getting some extra damage is always useful. Even if it does an unsaved wound, you might roll a 1 or 2 for the movement. Two things that I think can help:
- Unlike the Endrinrigger/Skywarden Grappnels, you don't have to move straight towards the enemy. You just have to end closer, so you can move diagonal or sideways.
- I think you can use it to move within 3" of an enemy (doesn't say you can't). This could be useful to get around opponent abilities that trigger when they get charged, like the Free People's shooting & counter charges. As long as you can survive one round of combat, you can tie something up this way.
The skyhook looks cooler though!
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Ah, gotcha. Of those 4 games, twice i lost both turn 2 & 3 piority rolls, going 1-1 in those games vs going 2-0 in the 2 games where I won at least one roll. But yeah, not a big enough sample size to say anything based on that.
Scenarios can play a really big role in determining winner, too. For an army like overlords, there are some scenarios are were pretty close to auto-lose in GHB 2018 (depending on opponent). So there can be a lot of noise in a 33 game sample.
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22 hours ago, whispersofblood said:
Of the two day event games what percentage of those loses came in the 2nd day of the event?
I finished middle of the pack in both of the 2-day tournaments, so nothing too out of line with the rest of my results (and a small sample). So of the 4 games I played on day two I went 3-1. Is there a specific question you are trying to get at?
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Feels like this has been a hot topic since the start of AoS, so I went back through my game notebook and tried to put some numbers on the impact of the turn roll. I included only 2,000 point matched play games from the last two years where I had recorded (or remembered) who won the priority rolls on turns 2 & 3. This gave me a sample size of 33 games. That includes 10 games from 2-day tournaments, 18 games from local 1-day tournaments, and a handful of pickup games. I used KO in all games.
Here are the numbers:
- In games where I won the Turn 2 priority roll (13 games) I won the game 64% of the time vs 42% when I lost the Turn 2 roll (19 games)
- In games where I lost both the Turn 2 & 3 priority rolls (14 games) I won the game only 29% of the time, vs winning 68% of the time when I won at least 1 of the first two priority rolls (19 games)
Not a huge sample size, so you can't draw any firm conclusions, but indications are that the those first two priority rolls swing your chance of winning +/- 10% or so. Really important dice rolls, for sure, but far from completely determining the outcome of the game on their own.
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On 8/12/2019 at 6:33 AM, MrCharisma said:
Just in case you missed it, I caught up with 3 fantastic KO players in Gary Percival, Alexander Krohn & Ben Spinetti in this Faction Focus. These Sky Admirals talk through both the foundations of building a great army, customising it with command traits/artefacts/etc, and tactics.
Awesome overview of the faction. Thanks for making it!
Also, shout out to the Aethercast Podcast mentioned in the video. It's a KO specific podcast, so I'm guessing many people on this forum would like it.
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On 8/10/2019 at 8:19 AM, Urbanus said:
Hey everyone
Just skimmed through the last couple of pages to see what the current "meta" is like. I have just one question for you all: Is a no-ship list still viable? I know they are a huge part of KOs appeal, but I really love the little guys, flying or not.
I had some success in casual games with a no ship Urbaz list before the new points came out. Big blob of arkanauts, unit of endrinrigger, unit of skywardens, a couple khemists, and a big built of allied dwarf warriors for them to hide behind.
The list really packs a punch, and has a lot of bodies. The downside is that it’s really stationary. If your opponent can take out the flyers, it’s really tough to go score objectives on the other side of the board.
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19 hours ago, ThePie said:
So regarding arkanauts... Is there any way to convert extra skyhooks? Doesent seem like any bit site has them in stock.
If you build your Endrinriggers/skywardens for melee, there is an extra skyhook in the kit.
Another easy solution is to mount the head of a sky pike to a rotary gun.
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Hey guys! Thought I'd share a write up of a tournament at my local store from a week and a half ago. We had 16 players and a pretty good mix of armies. Forgot to take any picture though.
My List: Barak-Zilfin.
SpoilerAdditional Footnotes: There’s no trading with some people & These are just guidelines
· 2x Khemists (general with Stickler for the Code, 2nd Khemist with the dispel artefact)
· 1 Frigate (with Atmospheric Endrins) – Deployed in the sky with one Khemist, the Endrinriggers, and 10 Company every game
· 40 Arkanaut Company
· 2x10 Arkanaut Company
· 9 Endrinriggers w 3 Grapnels
· 30 Dwarf Longbeards
· 1 Command Point
I realized that I made my list wrong and was playing with 3 fewer Endrinriggers than I was supposed to. Could have used 12 and the list would be 1970.
Game 1 (Duality of Death, Realm of Death, +1 Bravery Realmscape Feature)
SpoilerOpponent’s List: Beastclaw Raiders– Frostlord on Stonehorn, Frostlord on Thundertusk, 2x4 & 1x2 Mournfangs, 1 Beastriders on Stonehorn
Deployment: On my left, I had my big Company and a Khemist, with the Longbeards in a protective ring around them. On my right, just 10 Company. He put his Frostlord on Stonehorn and 4 Mournfangs on my right, and everything else on my left.
Summary: He moved forward and took both objectives. His Frostlord Stonehorn got a long charge on my small Company, but rolled incredibly poorly and left 4 of them alive. I dropped my ship a little bit to the right of the board center, and through shooting and an Endrinrigger charge killed the Mournfangs on that objective. However, my Arkanauts failed the 9” charge, so I couldn’t claim the objective this turn (battleline & heroes claim objectives in this scenario). His Frostlord killed the remaining 4 Company, although they did a few wounds in shooting. I shot his other Stonehorn down to just a few wounds with my big Company. I won the turn 2 roll, moved a small company unit onto the right objective, finished off his non-hero Stonehorn (and spread out some remaining shots to his Thundertusk) with shooting from the big Company, and pushed everything on that side of the board forward 4” to threaten his objective. The Endrinriggers charged his remaining Stonehorn and killed it in his half of the turn, but lost most of the unit in return. In his turn he charged in his remaining stuff into my Longbeard wall, killing over half of them and keeping the left objective, putting him up 4-1.
On turn 3 I moved my small company off the objective towards where most of the fighting was (didn’t realize you had to keep units on the objective in this scenario), but shot off his Stonehorn and all his Mournfang except 2. He kept the objective that turn, though, making the score 7-1. I won the turn 4 roll, claimed both the objectives, killed his remaining Mournfang, scoring 2 in turn 4 and 4 in turn 5, resulting in a tie on VPs, but beating him on kill points by a lot. Minor Win
Game Takeaways:
· Make sure to read the new scenarios before you play them. They are different in subtle ways. I would have easily won if I just keep a Khemist or some Company on the right objective in turn 3.
Game 2 (Shifting Objectives, Realm of Fire, +1 Rend to shots over 12” Realmscape Feature)
SpoilerOpponent’s List: Deepkin – Eidelon of the Sea, Vultornos, 2 Soulrenders, 1 Soulscryer, 3x10 Namarti (some shooting, some combat), 2x3 of each type of eel cavalry.
Deployment: Longbeards in a line at the front of my zone. Big Company in a line a few inches behind, with the Khemist in the middle of them. Small Company off to one side to make sure he couldn’t come on behind me. He put Vultornis with a unit of defensive eels on my right, the Eidelon, some Namarti, & a Soulrender in his center, and the offensive eels, more Namarti, & his other Soulrender on my left. The last 2 eel units & the Soulscryer deployed off the table to ambush.
Summary: I gave him turn 1, and he pushed almost everything forward to claim objectives (although he was too aggressive with some of his heroes here). I brought my ship down on the right, behind Vultornis & the eels, and piled out so that I could get a lot of shots into Vultornis. Between shooting & the Endrinrigger charge, I killed them both, and took the right objectve. Longbeards ran to claim the middle objective, & everything else walked up. Big Company shot off the Eidelon. I won the turn 2 roll, and grappled my Endrinriggers to take out some Namarti near the middle objective, and I scored 4 again. He brought on his ambushing units on the right board edge, charging the offensive unit into the Longbeards and everything else into my small Company & Khemist that had been on the boat (where they stayed in combat for basically the rest of the game). Everything else charged into my other small Company & the Longbeards, whipping out the small company, and killing a dozen or so Longbeards, and claiming the side objectives. 8-7 me after 2.
I think I won the turn 3 roll, and mostly kept things out of combat, while using the big company and Endrinriggers to shoot off his eels on the right objective. He killed 10 or so more longbeards over both our turns, but because of the positioning of his Namarti, had a tough time getting his eels into the fight. He scored the primary objective and I got the other 2. 11-11 tie after 3, but he didn’t have much left at this point. The primary objective moved to the right. He took my Longbeards to just a couple left, but really had no way to get any objective except the one on the left. In my turn, shooting from the big Company pretty much destroyed his remaining units. Major Win
Game Takeaways:
· With a slow army, it’s important to get lots of bodies on the objectives as soon as possible. There were some spots where I could have run my small Companies instead of shooting, to get more bodies on objectives even if I already controlled it. And don’t be afraid to use the 6” run command ability to do it.
· When his ambushers charged my Longbeards in turn 2, I was able to remove casualties in such a way that he had to decide between piling in off the objective or not fighting with them (he didn’t fight).
· Don’t think this realmscape feature is very fair. +1 rend on Skyhooks is pretty tough, and all he had with more than 12” range was one unit of Namarti with bows.
Game 3 (Knife to the Heart, Realm of Fire, no Realmscape Feature)
SpoilerOpponent’s List: Sylvaneth – Treelord Ancient, 2 Branchwraiths/Branchwitches, 2x30 & 1x20 Dryads, 9 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows
Deployment: Big Company, one Small Company, and Khemist clustered around my objective, with the Longbeards on the boarder of my deployment zone. He basically flooded his zone with Dryads everywhere to prevent me from dropping behind him, including one big unit of 30 in a Wildwood on the objective with one of the small casters, and his Hunters & Treelord in the back.
Summary: He outdropped me and took the first turn, dropping a huge Wildwood just to the right of my deployment zone. His Treelord & Hunters teleported to that wood, with his Hunters just out to the side, and his Treelord barely sticking out to cast spells & use his ranged attack. A unit of 20 Dryads teleported to 9” away from my Longbeards, but failed their charge. His hunters fired into my big Company and killed a dozen or so. I pushed up with the Longbeards, but failed their charge into the Dryads. My big company killed the Treelord (he was pretty salty about it). The Frigate stayed in the sky. He won the roll for turn 2 and took it, killing another 8 or 9 Arkanauts with his Hunters, and charging the dryads into my Longbeards and killing 7 or 8, but being shot off by my Arkanauts in my half of the turn. I dropped my frigate about 12” away from the Dryads on his objective, and with shooting & the Endrinrigger charge killed more than half of them. I won the turn 3 roll, and easily killed enough dryads to claim his objective and win. Major Win
Game Takeaways:
· Generally, it’s better not to charge or run with the Longbeards unless it’s to claim an objective. Re-rolling their save makes them really tough.
· Against shooting armies, keep your Khemst back as far as you can. He didn’t target the Khemist, but if he did, could have killed him turn 1. Because the big Company is so huge, it should be easy to even put the Khemist in the corner, and just string a few guys back to be within 10” for his buff.
· In this scenario, I would almost always pick to go second in turn 1 & 2. Getting the turn 3 double is really powerful.
Final thoughts:
Spoiler· 3-0 Overall, achieving all my secondaries. Tied for first on battle points, since one other person had 2 majors, & 1 minor with all their secondaries. They narrowly won the tie-break based on strength of schedule.
· The Longbeards were great. I was intending to use 40 warriors instead, but accidentally left 10 on my painting table. 30 Longbeards & a CP costs the same as 40 Warriors. Basically you trade 10 bodies for a better save & the CP, which seems well worth it. If you don’t run or charge the Longbeards on they have a re-rollable 4+, which can really hold up anything that isn’t doing mortal wounds or a bunch of rend -2. I think some sort of cheap horde screen is cruicial to any army that uses a big blob of Arkanauts.
· With the lower points, I think I’ll start using this sort of Zilfin list again. It increases the mobility of the army by a ton, and makes the opponent have to defend against your deep strike. There’s no way I could have won Knife to the Heart with a more static list.
· I think KO really struggle against armies with shooting de-buffs or ignore rend. However, two of those armies (Deepkin & Nighthaunt) have a lot of fly, so the Zilfin re-rolls make those matchups not as bad.
· Starting the game with a command point was more helpful that I thought it might be. I means you can pass a battleshock if your opponent alpha strikes on turn 1 (like when the Hunters shot my big Company), and because there are so many options for command abalities now, it feels like you can always find a use for them (re-rolling 1s on the big Company in shooting or on Endrinriggers in a crucial combat are very useful)
· Not really sure what to do with the artefact, but I didn’t dispel a single spell all weekend. Would probably switch over to a defensive option on the khemst near the big Arkanaut unit.
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Wonder if we are going to see some of the similar warscrolls across races consolidated and made non race specific. Like Thunderers and free guild hand gunner merge under a new scroll called Free cities hand gunners which can be any race.
The same could happen with Quarrelers and free guild crossbows and a bunch more.
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I'm going to a local 3 game tournament this weekend and deciding between these two lists. It's going to be fought in the realms (Fire & Death), with a random set of scenarios:
Urbaz Gunline - Idea is that the Maraudes give you bodies to claim objectives during turn 1&2 and block out people from getting to the damage dealing units (Arkanauts, and Balloons). This list has a lot of firepower, buffs from the Khemists, and a lot of bodies. The Incantor also gives you a crucial auto-dispel & access to the realm spells. However, it's pretty stationary, and high drop. Also you lose the turn 1 command point. And my marauders aren't painted.
- 2 Khemists
- 2x10 & 1x40 Arkanauts
- 9 Endrinriggers (2 or 3 with Grappnels)
- 9 Skywardens
- 40 Marauders
- Knight Incantor
Zilfin Dropship - The deepstrike & Frigate makes objective grabbing way easier, and you still have the 2 units that hit really hard. Also only 4-5 drops, so you probably get to choose turn 1 order half the time. However, the Zilfin footnote isn't nearly as good as Urbaz, and you miss out on the magic (casting and defense).
- 2 Khemists
- 1 Frigate
- 2x10 & 1x40 Arkanauts
- 12 Endrinriggers (3 Grappnels)
- 40 Dwarf Warriors
I'll probably take the 2nd list because it's all Dwarfs & is fully painted, but I think the first is probably more powerful. What do you guys think?
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I’m actually pretty excited for the release! If it’s anything like the Firestorm cities there will be plenty of options to have an all dwarf force, I’d if it can include KO or Ironweld as part of the core army, even better as far as I care. I’m sure some of the allegiances will be plenty thematic, and there’s no reason you can’t say that instead of A free city, you army is from a Karak only populated by dwarfs!
The only real loss that I see is this probably means no dear specific endless prayers or terrain.
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It’s tough to compare vs Skaven, since they are one of the strongest armies at the moment.
For a 1k game (unless you are against another soft list) I would never take more than 1 ship. A frigate makes most 1k lists 2 drops, so you usually will get to decide who goes first. And if you pick Zilfin it let’s you deep strike almost your whole army. The ships are never going to make points back on their own, and unfortunately I think they provide diminishing returns if you take more than 1 and don’t go with a battalion.
AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion
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For people who are sad about the warriors going away, use them as Longbeards! That's a proxy that no one should have any problem with at all. They're still dwarfs, the weapons options are exactly the same, and their beards are pretty long anyway 🧔. It's barely even a proxy, just a different sculpt of basically the same thing.
I wonder if the option for great weapon & shield is going to go away. They did say they are updating warscrolls.