Azamar

It’s models with the monster or war machine keywords that have 8 or more wounds that can’t get the cover bonus. The eidolon is neither, so will benefit from cover, as will the king/ Volturnos.

It’s a horde army with kits that are priced (in money terms) like elites. A bit like DOK witch elves but without enough clout in a competitive setting to attract the competitive crowd. The start collecting kit helped a lot, but it’s relatively expensive to build an army, and the lack of variety means not many people want to see a full army through. If the new battletome drops the model count needed, that might see more players willing to take the plunge with them.

That genuinely hadn’t crossed my mind- that could be really interesting. For KO I’d rather they gave the navigator something to do. But if the fyreslayer priests learn how to dispel endless spells they’ll be a shoe in for allies for my KO.

I wonder, is it too early to start speculation on what changes are coming? Fyreslayers could be a funny one as they could hold out for themselves (thanks to vulkites) and really just need a few tweaks to improve the weaker units. Apart from the obvious like all abilities becoming entirely within (might be awkward for the battlesmith), I’d most like to see: 1. heath guard bezerker improvements. It’s crazy how, in an army with three units, one of them still managed to be obsolete. For extra bonus points, I wouldn’t mind seeing their name changed- I’m sure there’s more than 4 different words that can be used for fyreslayer units! 2. Runemaster improvements. He’s so offensively bad your opponent ought to be paying the points for him. 3. Heroes with an unbind, and with any luck that can dispel endless spells. Will probably tie in with 2 I suspect. 4. It’s a long shot but some kind of defensive boost for heroes. I half wonder if they’ll make the 6+ invun save an allegiance ability, with the Berzerker units getting bonuses under certain conditions as before. I have wondered if they might redo everything from the ground up, even the stuff that works. For example, if every warscroll including vulkites was updated with a more elite profile (and points cost), dropping the model count and lowering the cost of entry, maybe more players would be likely to take up the army? That might be wishful thinking in my part- I’ve painted 30 vulkites and there’s no way I’d ever want to paint another 60!

If we don’t I’m sure you’ll convert some definitely getting that warband- even if I don’t really use 2 khemists I prefer that model to the original. The extra volley gun I can make good use of as well.

Kharadrons might be in with a better chance of new units than fyreslayers though, if nothing else than because of their popularity. Most likely just a new hero like the Skaven/ FEC box set but you never know.

I spent March painting a fyreslayers start collecting box, so this is rather good timing for me!

Just caught up with the combat order article and faq, but looks like I’m late to the party. Glad it sounds like I wasn’t the only one to get in a muddle about how high tide fitted in with everything anyhow. At the risk of looking a gift horse in the mouth, does anyone have any insight on why they went back in this direction? They already came out with a seemingly conclusive answer a couple of weeks ago but I guess Ben changed his mind?

Well you’ve got my vote. If nothing else I just hope you’re right on an imminent updated book- even if we still end up bottom of the heap power wise it’s be nice to have a book with all the right rules in, and not have to keep cross referencing the faqs!

If you wanted to- there’s often ways to tone down a list without having to buy new models- different (or randomised) artefacts and command traits, or spells if you have them for example. Taking the normal optimal picks out of the equation might be enough to even things out just that little bit? Or breaking down larger units- like splitting something like vulkites or skeletons into smaller units to make them more manageable.

For what I suggested I meant 2 10 man units. There’s no reason you couldn’t take more. The runelord’s usefulness might depend on what you’re facing, I mostly just threw it out as it was something that filled 100 points that you might already have. I’ve used a grimwrath bezerker with my KO as well and he’s ok. I prefer endrinriggers personally- since wardens went up in cost there’s fewer reasons to take them over the riggers.

Is there any source to those rumours beyond that one guy in the rumour thread? As it looks like he just made it up. There’s only one battleline choice, and khemists are close to essential, so I would start with a khemist and two units of arkanauts, then work from there. a start collecting box would take you up to 900 points, so that might be a cost effective way to expand, leaving 100 points spare which would allow more thunderers, or and allied unit (a runelord perhaps) giving you a mix of units- you could then see what you like and add more as your army grows

Best advice I can give here is worry less about what’s across the table from you and focus more on what you’re own strengths and weaknesses are, and play to the former. The grass is always going to seem greener, especially if you compare your ghb army with an army that has a full battletome. (I play both mixed order/darkling covens and idoneth so I’ve seen that from both angles). But if you go in with the mindset that you don’t stand a chance, you’re more likely to end up with a lopsided game. As a a side note- you probably don’t do this but it’s worth saying- try not to have too much of a rant at your opponent however salty anyone is feeling. I started an idoneth army last year and on two occasions, one of my regular opponents went on a 15-20 minute tirade about how broken he thought they were. When you’ve spent countless hours putting together and painting a project you’re excited about, this *really* sucks. I’m lucky in that it’s not my only army, so I can just take something else, but I could imagine stuff like that turning a new player off the game.

If I’m getting really trashed (or think I’m about to be) then I find the best thing is to set myself little targets or objectives. For example, things have gone south and there’s no way you’re going to beat that oncoming hoard of Skaven, but you’re going to make sure you snuff out that pesky Grey seer before the game is done. I find little moments can often be more rewarding anyway- I’d struggle to recall much about games where I tabled someone, unless it was recent. But I’ll probably never forget when I was down to a single model- a loremaster- and decided to see how long he could stand against the onrushing hoard of blood warriors (3 rounds of combat, as it turned out).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/05/the-rumour-engine-5th-march-2019/ heads up from the rumour thread- latest rumour engine looks like it will be deepkin related...

Both are an exact match for objects on the gloomtide shipwrecks base. Could be an endless spell, although the wording in the idoneth battletome does leave open the chance of other aetheric vortex scenery.

So I played a game against a Gloomspite Gitz spiderfang army earlier this week. In case anyone was still in doubt: going up against endless spells without a wizard is super painful. The malevolent moon in particular caused a lot of damage, and the spiders just popping out of any terrain feature made them a real problem for me. Clawed through to a win- a rare thing for my kharadrons as I don’t think I’ve quite got the hang of them yet- but I think I might have to relent and add a wizard at some point, just to avoid being left helpless against endless spells again. I’d still prefer to avoid adding any stormcast models though, purely out of personal preference. Has anyone ever attempted to convert any Kharadron characters into a Knight- incantor? If I pick up a start collecting I’ll have a spare one so I wondered if he might be a good candidate.

I stand corrected- it’s also confirmed in the flesh eater courts faq today (and definitely trumps the idoneth faq)

I used him in my last game against night haunt and the storm ability really messed with my opponent. I lost the game mind you, but the navigator did muck up his plans a bit, and kept a couple of units out of combat for longer. The movement boost he gives to the airships is also decent, especially if you have the prosecute wars with all haste trait, or an embarked admiral to make the most of the run reroll without losing a round of shooting. It’s just odd his abilities feel so restrained when he has no offensive capabilities at all. The battleshock immunity bubble is good, especially if you have several large units of Arkanauts, and he’s reasonably tough. Plus being able to run and shoot an ironclad whilst he’s embarked is pretty helpful as well. I agree an endrinmaster is probably a bit better overall.

The +3 bravery aura from the aspect of the sea is starting to look very useful come to think of it. And to my knowledge those abilities can stack, as will ignax’s scales against mortal wounds.

There’s a start collecting set going up for pre-order (I think) this weekend- so that might be a good place to start- you’d only need a king or another box of thralls to have all the battleline you need, then could fill out the rest up to the first 1000 points with whatever you fancied.

I hope you don’t think I’m awkward by keeping replying to this, but it is interesting I completely get what you’re saying (and I’m used to start vs end of phase abilities and all that , and how these would interact with normal combat order). But my point in my last post is, is High tide a start of phase ability? Its not outright stated as such in the rule’s wording, but the idoneth faq question I mentioned specifically uses it as an example of a start of phase ability. Still not sure how to copy and paste so I’ve screen capped it below. Look at the first sentence of the answer in particular. There’s two ways to interpret this really: 1. The High Tide ability is intended to happen at the start of the phase, and the idoneth faq should be considered confirmation of this, in which case it follows the rules in the same way as all other start of phase abilities. (The first half of the answer in that question is basically repeating the start of phase question that you posted) 2. High Tide isn’t a start of phase ability, the wording of the ability should be taken literally and the line in the faqs, saying it is start of phase, is a mistake. I think it’s 1. myself, as the faqs are meant to offer rules clarifications after all. But I admit I can imagine errors pop up in the faqs as well so it could be a genuine mistake. But again, hopefully you can see why I don’t think it’s completely clear at this point. This is largely theoretical for me, as even if I run into Gristlegore at any point, it’ll only actually matter on a single turn, so I’m probably splitting hairs anyway.

Disclaimer: you’re probably right, or will be proven to be in time, but just to throw a spanner in the works: the idoneth designers commentary describes high tide as a start of phase ability. not sure how to copy and paste from a pdf on phone, but wording is “if both units can use an ability at the start of a phase (such as the high tide allegiance ability)...” the full question in that faq directly relates to two idoneth armies armies fighting each other, but I would think that would still apply to other similar abilities? That would also suggest that, if another deepkin player charged me in high tide, they would attack with their units in their turn before I could use the eels discharge ability. Even if I'm wrong hopefully you can see why I’m confused on that, as I was thinking of the idoneth faq.

Hmm. Good point- exact wording is “at the start of the combat phase” for the FEC ability. Although high tide trait says your units “fight before *any* other units, which might still supersede it? Probably one for an FAQ

The player whose turn it is decides which order special abilities activate, so in your turn High tide will override savage strike (but he’ll get to go first in his turn 3). Hitting targets at precisely the right time is the whole MO of idoneth anyway, isn’t it?