decker_cky
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Everything posted by decker_cky
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The 'leak' includes ungor raiders at 80/240 (ie, 30 ungor raiders cost the same as 40) and changed a bunch of costs from the brand new fyreslayers book, both of which suggest it is nonsense.
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At 60 pts, they'd be a great unit and likely would be popular. But they're still not battleline (there's alternative screening options which are), they're still not present in any battalion (meaning they increase drops, which several alternatives do not), and aside from denial, they don't actually do a lot.
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Points may legitimately change, but I just don't see rules changes being on the table.
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Ignoring points, 3 Bullgors are comparable offensively (not going to run the numbers, but from previously doing it they're comparable) and defensively (10 4+ save wounds vs. 12 5+ save wounds) to bestigors, but are slower (1" more movement, but no run and charge) and have far fewer available buffs (notably, they do not benefit from the shaman speed buff). edit: One more thing - an argument in favour of hordes - a horde of bullgors, if decently affordable, would make much better use of the doombull command ability.
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I'm really hoping Bullgors get a hefty discount in the new GHB. 120 pts plus a horde discount (12 for 400) would make them a fun, interesting unit that could be relied on as the base of your army.
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Centigors are the ultimate 'threat' unit in the army. A low drop army with centigors means your opponent has to assume 1st turn charge, potentially even around an initial screen. They charge 14" + 3" for GBS + D6+1 run + 2D6 charge (18+3D6, 95% chance of rolling 6 or more), and for a control point, you can make that 24+2D6" (to reliably hit back line units). In a nurgle army, you can add 3 to those totals for a GUO (and potentially 2 more on the wheel), and you can boost the unit offensively with blades of putrification (if you drink, 5's and 6's to hit cause a mortal wound). Centigors are a great unit.
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Ability to cheat in a 6 for your run is a really powerful ability on an army with run and charge on most models. Inspiring presence is a powerful ability on a low bravery army. Reroll charges is huge when it matters. But looking at doombulls and beastlords: Beastlords, when factoring in available magic weapons, are a better offensive pieces, and the command ability is great if you can trigger it (far too potent to be unconditional IMO). Doombulls aren't amazing in terms of stats per point, and their command ability is pretty weak (it can be nice, but it doesn't fix the minotaur's weak stat, nor does it help trigger exploding attacks anymore). Nobody talks about it, but doombulls lost a bubble buff and gained a one unit buff.
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Gorthor for the same price as a normal tuskgor chariot is a great deal - worth noting for those who haven't seen the model his tuskgors have different heads to the normal chariots, which can add a bit of variety. The other models are pretty pricey, but nice to have them available without fear of being recast. I'll definitely be filling out my pestigors with some extra commands (allow me to break them into units of 10), but they're basically the same price you could get them from ebay.
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Herdstone is obviously your first purchase. Two start collectings makes a list something like this: Allegiance: Beasts Of ChaosGreat Bray Shaman (100)Great Bray Shaman (100)20 x Ungors (120)- Mauls & Half-Shields10 x Bestigors (120)10 x Bestigors (120)Ghorgon (200)Ghorgon (200)Total: 960 / 2000Extra Command Points: 20Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 78 There's some options (split ungors, raiders, cygors over ghorgons), but you're right in the range. Not sure whats most competitive - at 1000 pts, the chief concern is being able to spread over objectives in my experience. If you like the tzeentch stuff and can find it, the arcanite changecult would allow for this: Allegiance: Beasts Of ChaosTzaangor Shaman (180)10 x Tzaangors (180)10 x Tzaangors (180)3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140)3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140)Total: 820 / 2000Extra Command Points: 23Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 70 Probably want to fill out with a second shaman. In any list, beasts of chaos have the issue that you will want to have extra stuff for summoning. You don't need the whole list. Here's some good suggestions: -If you're playing gavespawn, you definitely want some spawn for summoning -ungors are great for cheap bodies to summon on an objective -raiders are same as ungors, but with shooting so they can contribute to the battle immediately -bestigors are great for summoning a hard hitter
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Yeah, points and to a lesser extent, battlefield rolls. I think Beasts of chaos battlefield rolls could stand to be loosened up to make the marked battalions out of faction actually function. I think non-battleline ungor raiders was clearly a conscious decision by the design team (to say nothing of the fact that they remain quite popular despite not being battleline). If I were focusing on 7 changes that would better balance the core of the book, they would be: Gors to 70/180 Bestigors to 130/300 Bullgors to 130/450 Chariots to 50/180 Warhounds to 60/150 Enlightened on Disc to 160 pts Skyfires to 160 pts GW doesn't want to use the odd points for some reason, but these changes would open up a lot of list building space without pushing units to too cheap or expensive.
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Forgot one thing: -Bestigors, Doombulls, and Dragon Ogres lose the reference to "Beasts of Chaos army" in their battleline rule (so just "Battleline if X is general"). The rule as written is fine for tzaangors. Also, I disagree on the difference in value of tzaangor stuff between tzeentch and beasts lists. Tzeentch has lost a lot of teeth and needs a way to get models into the army. There are almost no basic tzeentch buffs that impact tzaangors in tzeentch, aside from easier access to arcanite heroes.
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So GW is asking for feedback for GHB 2019. Here's my view: Gors - I'm not sure Gors would be taken even at 70/180 pts. Given their base size and stats, and compared to Marauders, I believe they would be justified as a 60/160 pt unit. That might be a bit agressive and 70/180 might be enough. Minotaurs - Glass hammer is tough to value, but I am not sure they are better value than Bestigors. 140 pts base, plus they should have a horde discount. Bestigors - Probably too cheap at min sized, but I'm not sure they're underpriced at horde size (due to the number of buffs that require the unit to be wholly within range) - 140/300 is probably fair Tzaangors - Good at min size. Given the nerf to large units, and the fact that their buffs are now "wholly within", need a bigger horde discount 180/400. Skyfires - Should be 160 pts Enlightened on foot - OK as is Enlightened on disc - Should be 160 pts Tzaangor shaman - no longer summons new units, so doesn't need the premium price. Should be 20 pts cheaper. Warhounds - 60 pts base, plus should have a horde discount. Chaos Spawn - 40 pts Jabberslythe - Needs to be cheaper Great bray shaman - probably actually worth 120 pts Chariots - 50 pts Brass Despoilers (190 p): Fair value Phantasmagoria of Fate (200 p): Weakest battalion benefit because you want to take it in armies that already want lots of wizards, but flexible and includes good units. 120 pts Pestilent Throng (200 p): 150 pts would be fair. Depraved Drove (150 p): Fair value. Desolating Beastherd (150 p): Fair value Hungering Warherd (150 p): Inflexible and weak, should be cheap. 100 pts Marauding Brayherd (180 p): Huge unit tax, should be very cheap: 60 pts Thunderscorn Stormherd (190 p): Inflexible, but decent benefit. 120 pts
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Lies! There were no gor or ungor units in those days...only beast herds. Thought I remembered centigors and chaos trolls in the box, but wasn't confident. Makes sense though - the ogres, trolls and centigors were all horrid and I remember the box being lackluster.
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It was only available in a beastmen armybox that came out with the 6th edition book, which included a pretty lackluster selection of models (I know for sure there were chaos ogres in it). I think the models will be available as of this saturday for a week.
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I use the wargor BSB model as a beastlord with a gorgeous banner. It's a great model that's worth owning for the model alone (it's what sold me on beasts of chaos back in the day). I'm considering loading up on pestigors while the getting's good. That might depend on how they bundle the models (back in the day, it was a box set of 10 rank and file, with a blister for the champion and a blister for the musician and standard, while I'd prefer if they were bundled 10 including full command).
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Strictly speaking, Tamurkhans horde requires everything to be from the Maggotkin of Nurgle battletome or Tamurkhan PDF (no pestilens, beasts of chaos, slaves to darkness, etc.. unless allied). It is, admittedly, extremely poorly written. "Designer’s Note: A Tamurkhan’s Horde army can include any of the units from Battletome: Maggotkin of Nurgle, as well as any of the units in this Compendium. By the same token, a Maggotkin of Nurgle army can include any of the units from this Compendium even if it is not a Tamurkhan’s Horde army" https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/aos_warscrolls/warhammer-aos-tamurkhans-horde.pdf
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Slaanesh does have the risk that you'll lose all that when it has a book come out. Nurgle has a default spell that all wizards know. Khorne and Tzeentch are fully keyword locked.
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Question for the wise beast generals here: What is the best we can make a list with 3 x 30 bestigors look? I know there's a footprint issue, but I feel like it creates uncomfortable issues for your opponents.
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His combat potential isn't actually that good for the points (it's okay for sure in a pinch, and that's part of the shaggoth's value in the backline). The shaggoth's main value is in killer support spells, survivability (same points per wound and save as a beastlord) and a large base (let's it be further forward while remaining within 3" of the herdstone and sacrificial unit).
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Shaggoth is the ideal character to sit beside the herdstone, as both hailstorm and sundering blades are effective from the backline and the shaggoth is resilient enough to shrug off light shooting.
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I like your thinking. Need some doombulls, at least minimal anti-magic, and some models to sacrifice to the herdstone, so 30 probably isn't reasonable, but how about this? 3 doombulls 7x3 bullgors 10 gors 10 ungors cygor Brass despoiler 1990 pts
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Enlightened on foot are still on 40mm bases. Also, because most of their attacks are 2", Enlightened on foot are the one unit that can be screened by non-ungors.
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Tzaangors are a funny situation because they have two different, conflicting, matched play profiles, so needed an FAQ. For everything else, just read what's actually written for battleline.
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Gors are battleline as long as they're not taken as allies.
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Beastmen have two really good subfactions (darkstalkers and gavespawn), and command abilities and magic items good enough that you're not penalized for not taking a subfaction. The beastmen battalions aren't particularly limiting (nor do the benefits don't really define the army to a significant extent). I understand the complaints about subfactions and magic items in the game as a whole....but the beasts of chaos book is really not the place to make that argument. Beasts of chaos is a demonstration of how subfactions can be done right.
